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ERJ And IAH, EWR  
User currently offlineBradley639 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 1 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Living in Houston and traveling to EWR weekly on CO for the last 2 years, I have noticed an increase in the amount of diversions for ExpressJets in both locations back to IAH and EWR respectively. My question is, Are the Xjets more prone to in flight diversions than other commercial airliners? Trending IAH, they average 4-5 per week over the last six months, and they are rarely WX related. Any help would be appreciated.

I have sat with many pilots on my weekly trips and some are mute on the topic, others choose not to fly on those planes for many reasons. I have flown the Xjets many times and find them to be a terrific airplane. I have only diverted once due to the cargo door not being closed properly on TO. Very loud short flight.

Brad.

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16796 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Historically when the Weather disrupts operations at EWR the first flights to get cancelled are the Regional flights, the thinking is that it's better to cancel a flight with 50 passengers from Greensboro than it is to cancel a flight with 170 passengers to Berlin.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 753 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

If delays are due to volume and unplanned holding commences it could be that the XJets have a little less wiggle room in terms of fuel they can carry. We all know the ERJ's tend to be weight restricted more often due to numerous reasons. On a good day when less fuel is required and in the effort to get everyone and everything on board all it takes is an unplanned volume delay and your reserves are gone and you need to divert. I am not saying that it doesn't happen to the bigger airplanes, because it does from time to time, and I am not saying the ERJ is not a capable aircraft. It's just the nature of the beast in my experience.

User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1790 times:



Quoting Bradley639 (Thread starter):
I have sat with many pilots on my weekly trips and some are mute on the topic, others choose not to fly on those planes for many reasons. I have flown the Xjets many times and find them to be a terrific airplane. I have only diverted once due to the cargo door not being closed properly on TO. Very loud short flight.

Brad.

First off, during perids of adverse weather at their hubs, Continental Airlines controls what flights get canceled, so that usually has nothing to do with ability of the aircraft, but everything do do with CAL's preference of which flights to operate. Obviously they will give preference to the larger aircraft since they carry more customers.

But you asked about "diversions" so,

The xjet ERJ's have CAT II ability, so they can land if visibility is at least 1200 ft. The CAL boeings usually have CAT III capability and can land in lower visibility, 600 ft and less. Colgan and Chautauqua props/rj's will need 1800 or 2400 ft, having only CAT I capability.

Outside of really low visibility (fog, blizzard, etc) the RJ's are just as capable as the larger aircraft and shouldn't be any more prone to diverting, all things being equal. Another factor to consider is that when an airport goes into "holding", CAL operations has some say in deciding who gets allowed to land first.....sometimes the RJ's get moved to the back of the line, at which point they are too low on fuel before their number gets called. This means they have to divert.

Also, many airports the RJ's operate into don't have the airport equipment necessary to facilitate low visibility landings, so if the visibility drops below 1/2 mile, no one, not even mainline could get in. The mainline routes usually involve airports with better equipment, which might factor into their diversion statistcs being lower.

On the fuel issue, the RJ's will leave pax behind before they skimp on the fuel in bad weather. A divert is very expensive and it is preferable to deny boarding to a few people than have the entire flight end up in the wrong place.

Boeings are not immune to this either, it's not rare for B733 or B735 aircraft to encounter weight restrictions when operating into poor weather. Much of the problem stems from the fact that when these aircraft were certified, airlines were allowed to use lower weights for passengers. As americans got fatter, the weights increased, but the planes stayed the same.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1715 times:

I've flown on the Embraers dozens of times, in recent memory, and never had a problem.
I've had tech delays, but no ATB's.
I don't have dispatch reliability numbers for you, and I suspect that anyone who does wouldn't be allowed to share them, anyway.
But the CoEx ERJ operation seems to be reliably average.

Quoting Bradley639 (Thread starter):
others choose not to fly on those planes for many reasons.

Ignorance..... Union-propogated ignorance.
Pilots are a very malleable group of people, and when your union tells you not to fly on those jets, there's nothing the airline can do about it, even when there's no reason for it. "ExpressJet is taking your jobs," etc etc etc. Pure baloney.


User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1613 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
I've flown on the Embraers dozens of times, in recent memory, and never had a problem.
I've had tech delays, but no ATB's.
I don't have dispatch reliability numbers for you, and I suspect that anyone who does wouldn't be allowed to share them, anyway.
But the CoEx ERJ operation seems to be reliably average.

Disptach reliability on the ExpressJet ERJ's is high. They consistently have a 99%+ controllable completion factor.


User currently offlineJumbojettim From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1513 times:

As previosly mentioned, it's much easier to divert a ERJ with 50 domestic passengers to Harrisburg, Allentown, or Lake Charles than it is for a fully loaded Air India B747 (customs, runway length, etc)

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