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Spirit: North America's Ryanair?  
User currently offlineFlightwatcher From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Last week Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary caused headlines, as he is wont to do, by saying he was considering coin slots on airplane bathroom doors. The idea, long bandied about by comedians and travelers (and legions of Middle Seat commenters — Ed.), doesn’t appear to be under serious consideration at Ryanair or anywhere else.

But more fees are coming. This week’s Middle Seat reveals that Spirit Airlines Inc., fast becoming the Ryanair of the U.S., plans to charge a “passenger usage fee” – that is, a fee to buy a ticket. Spirit also charges fees for advance seat assignments and automatically adds travel insurance to a ticket purchase unless the buyer opts out. You might just call the carrier a “fee-line.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009...es-becoming-the-ryanair-of-the-us/

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19202 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5160 times:



Quoting Flightwatcher (Thread starter):
plans to charge a “passenger usage fee” – that is, a fee to buy a ticket.

Virtually every airline in Europe charges a card fee, including legacies like BA. Of course, each airline charges a different amount and has different rules, whether it's charged on a per passenger, per sector basis, or whether there's a simple one price regardless of passenger numbers or sectors.

If you are keen to read more about FR's ancillary revenue, search on Google for IdeaWork's "Ryanair: The Godfather of Ancillary Revenue."

Other good reports on this subject are:

"American Airlines borrows Ryanair fee tactics"
"Allegiant Air: Viva Las Vegas and the King of Ancillary Revenue"

Quoting Flightwatcher (Thread starter):
automatically adds travel insurance to a ticket purchase unless the buyer opts out.

The reason airlines have automatic opt-in is because it massively increases sales. Indeed, flybe said it has increased its travel insurance sales by 40%. See this: http://www.airlineinformation.org/co...ts/MilitsaPriebetichGill_Flybe.pdf



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5094 times:

First comes this convenience fee... I know that Allegiant has it, too, but they're more like Expedia with an airline attached, not a pure airline.

But what's next, NK? Charging you $2 per passenger to print out your own boarding pass on your home computer printer, or $5 per pax if you print it at an airport kiosk? How about a $20/pax "airplane maintenance and safety charge"?

Soon, Spirit Airlines should be called Ticketmaster Airlines...



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5026 times:



Quoting Flightwatcher (Thread starter):
This week’s Middle Seat reveals that Spirit Airlines Inc., fast becoming the Ryanair of the U.S., plans to charge a “passenger usage fee”

Nothing new, really. Spirit charges a fee to ticket over the phone, and they've often charged a "web booking convenience fee" for booking over the Internet.

Spirit can get me from DTW to LGA or DTW to MCO.

As soon as Spirit routes me Jackson, MI to Newburgh NY or Jackson, MI to Sanford, FL then they'll be Ryanair...



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineCiaran From Ireland, joined Aug 2005, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4932 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):

"American Airlines borrows Ryanair fee tactics"

Re: FR
I was done for an extra 150 Euro for my 16 month old (additional weight in cases) I would be delighted if they brought in "pee tactics", I can just see it now "sir you haven't finished your coke, well what ever you do honey don't drink it." And with all those other piddle cans lieing around for turbulence to up end, what a ambiance.
The worst insult was that the new Aer Lingus management with their share options and reading "How to run an Airline on a dogs wages" as if it where the latest must read, getting a pat on the head from the share holders and their muzzles removed (falling over themselves to copy the FR model) and succeeded in alienating those of us who had a memory and who didn't mind paying that little extra for a smile and a cup of tea. I recall connecting via Amsterdam from Perth flying Singapore to EI to Dublin with this guy pushing a trolley with a bus conductors bag of jingling coins and plastic cold tea and non too friendly, I thought I had gone to hell, and promptly pulled the blanket over my head and cried myself to sleep.


User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

My wife and I flew NK on Saturday r/t MCO-FLL-MCO. What a nightmare. FILTHY a/c, and upon our arrival on flt 626 into MCO, we sat for 35 minutes so we could enter gate 32, even though that satellite had 8 open gates. I unfortunalety have to fly them again this upcoming weekend, but never again. I'll pay double to fly LUV gladly. NK is just nasty.

User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Allegiant charges a fee to purchase through their web site.

User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

get the pay toilets going and yeah, maybe they are Ryanair


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5150 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4549 times:



Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 5):
My wife and I flew NK on Saturday r/t MCO-FLL-MCO. What a nightmare. FILTHY a/c, and upon our arrival on flt 626 into MCO, we sat for 35 minutes so we could enter gate 32, even though that satellite had 8 open gates. I unfortunalety have to fly them again this upcoming weekend, but never again. I'll pay double to fly LUV gladly. NK is just nasty.

And you paid how much?

Let's break this down. You flew from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale and return. A short-ish hop, on a nice big jet, which is a good start. Others might fly this on a Beech 1900 or a Dash-8.

Next big complaint: Aircraft was "filthy". So were Delta's for a long time. But we really don't know what "filthy" means. Was there trash in the aircraft? Or had it not been deep-cleaned in a while? Or was it dirty on the *outside*, which is pretty meaningless. Trash sometimes remains because airlines have to turn quickly to remain on schedule; I have certainly seen this on virtually every carrier on which I have flown.

I mean, did it *smell*, like the Avis car I turned down last week? I guess it was pretty awful though, because that seems to be your chief complaint.

Next complaint: You had to wait for your gate, even though OTHER AIRLINES had open gates. I'm sure that sucked. However, is that really a Spirit thing? I mean, have you ever flown American into Dallas? They have a penalty box *on the field* because ATC will hold planes near the runway when the ramp isn't ready for them because there isn't even a hope of a gate being open for them, sometimes for well longer than the time frames you are talking about. Or on Delta into ATL? I have waited for a long, long time in the alley for a gate, because the gate we are assigned is still in use.

American has lots of gates in DFW. Delta has lots of gates in ATL. In both cases, if YOUR gate is blocked, you will wait for your gate. Not always, because on rare occasion, they take the opportunity to make a gate change, but this is not the norm. While you wait, you will see other aircraft pushing back and other aircraft going into those gates. Those aircraft most likely arrived *after* you did. Sorry, it's not "first come, first served".

It's too bad that you didn't love your trip on Spirit, but I have to say that your complaints are pretty darn minor, compared to what frequent travelers endure every day on every carrier. Should you have had a perfect experience? That's the goal. Have family members of mine had very nice experiences on Spirit over and over and over? Yes, they have. So your experience is not the norm. Hence, the phrase, "Your mileage may vary."

Or, hence, the rolled eyes that usually greet most posts that proclaim after one trip: "I'll never fly [insert airline] again!"


User currently offlineGlobeex From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4503 times:



Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 5):
we sat for 35 minutes so we could enter gate 32, even though that satellite had 8 open gates

All I can say about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGYx35ypus&feature=related
go to 2:40.

I mean, GET OVER IT cry  , last year I flew JFK-FRA with SQ and we waited over an hour to get a gate assignement, okay, SQ is definately know for being a third class carrier  bored  .......Its not like they intent to let you sit on a taxiway for 40min.



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineA330300 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4437 times:



Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 5):
My wife and I flew NK on Saturday r/t MCO-FLL-MCO. What a nightmare. FILTHY a/c, and upon our arrival on flt 626 into MCO, we sat for 35 minutes so we could enter gate 32, even though that satellite had 8 open gates.

If I'm not mistaken:

Flight 626 was scheduled to depart FLL at 8:45pm and arrive in MCO at 9:50PM
Flight 626 left the FLL gate at 8:31pm and was in the air by 8:43pm.
Flight 626 landed in MCO at 9:17pm and blocked in at 9:42pm.

Your flight was waiting for gate 32, which flight 304 to ACY was using until it departed 1 minute early at 9:34pm.

NK only has one other gate in use at MCO, which was occupied by a FLL-bound flight.

While I sympathize that you sat for 25 minutes, NK got you there safely and 8 minutes early. For most customers who are able to pick up a roundtrip for less than $60, there are a few things that they will probably have to to live without. Spare gates is one of them.  Smile


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4413 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 7):
get the pay toilets going and yeah, maybe they are Ryanair

It's also refreshing to know that NK is currently establishing an international network that legacy carriers only wish they had, (except AA). Everyone may say negative thinks about NK, and that they will never fly with them again. Then two weeks later that same person is using NK again.

Quoting Globeex (Reply 9):
I mean, GET OVER IT

Couldn't agree more!


User currently offlineMiguel0881 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

I've flown NK many times and never once had a truly bad experience. I've flown both international (SDQ, GCM, SJO, SAP, NAS) and domestic (STT, SAT, CAE, DCA). I've done many of these trips for under $150 a/i (oftentimes, with most of this being international taxes). They're a great little airline if you know what to expect - i.e. longish check-in lines at FLL for international flights, planes that are really only cleaned at FLL, fees for snacks, checked baggage and now seat assignments. I've also only flown NK to/from FLL which helps (I've heard the real meltdowns come with missed onward connections, but that's the case with any airline). Ultimately, you get what you pay for and my experience with NK has been that I've always received much more than I've paid.

User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4093 times:



Quoting Ciaran (Reply 4):
I thought I had gone to hell, and promptly pulled the blanket over my head and cried myself to sleep.

And did you bring your own or did you opt in for the Aircraft Warmth and Comfort surcharge? Big grin


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

People aren't THAT stupid. Why don't airlines just cover their costs/"fees" with the ticket price, PERIOD. Do they think people don't see the total they're paying if it's broken into smaller bits??

Things like inflight food/beverages, I can see charging extra for. But things that are just a basic part & parcel of providing the service - PLEASE do us a favor, and factor it into the fare in the first place. JEEZ!



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17412 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3986 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
It's also refreshing to know that NK is currently establishing an international network that legacy carriers only wish they had,

Yes, but they're throwing it away with one of the trashiest brands out there. Ryanair seems downright civilized to the trailer park branding NK has developed. They could be such a great carrier if they weren't so determined and focused to lick the bottom of the barrel.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3966 times:



Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 5):
My wife and I flew NK on Saturday r/t MCO-FLL-MCO. What a nightmare. FILTHY a/c, and upon our arrival on flt 626 into MCO, we sat for 35 minutes so we could enter gate 32, even though that satellite had 8 open gates.

I'll also point out that the number of open gates is irrelevant; even the number of open Spirit gates is irrelevant. Spirit has a limited number of employees and if they're working a departure, you're going to wait until they handle your arrival, regardless of the number of open gates. And most of those empty gates are ex-NW, not Spirit.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5150 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3838 times:



Quoting A330300 (Reply 10):
While I sympathize that you sat for 25 minutes, NK got you there safely and 8 minutes early

Excellent research and analysis!

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
I mean, have you ever flown American into Dallas?

I rest my case:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/local/story/574661.html

(in which the guy jumps off after waiting for a gate in DFW).

One more point: While I'm waiting for a gate in ATL, I'm pretty sure that somwhere at the airport, there are open gates. Why doesn't DL just pull into one of them? You know the answer, so why should Spirit be held to a different standard, particularly for the pittance you paid.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3777 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 17):
While I'm waiting for a gate in ATL, I'm pretty sure that somwhere at the airport, there are open gates.

I would say a fortress hub like ATL is a different issue - you KNOW that empty gate is already spoken for. As a passenger (remember, there are some people who don't work for airlines on this board), it doesn't quite register when you're looking at multiple empty gates, and you're being forced to sit there "so close, yet so far away", ready to get on with things. I understand under-staffing and the like, but I'm just giving a view into the poster's likely perspective.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3705 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
It's also refreshing to know that NK is currently establishing an international network that legacy carriers only wish they had, (except AA). Everyone may say negative thinks about NK, and that they will never fly with them again. Then two weeks later that same person is using NK again.

Well not this person, nor anyone else I know that has flown them except one of my friends who is EXTREMELY cheap and will go thru 5 cities if the fare is good. Listen, to each is own. The cons with NK out weigh the pros at least thats what I'm seeing. I personally didn't care for there product for reasons of my own but there still in business so there are people flying them. I say good for them but I'll tell one thing. Most people would avoid taking NK if they can.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3681 times:



Quoting Globeex (Reply 9):

All I can say about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGYx35ypus&feature=related
go to 2:40.

I wish we played that in the gate area. Holy crap that was awsome.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineSpeedbird2263 From Jamaica, joined Jul 2006, 470 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3569 times:



Quoting A330300 (Reply 10):
If I'm not mistaken:

Flight 626 was scheduled to depart FLL at 8:45pm and arrive in MCO at 9:50PM
Flight 626 left the FLL gate at 8:31pm and was in the air by 8:43pm.
Flight 626 landed in MCO at 9:17pm and blocked in at 9:42pm.

Your flight was waiting for gate 32, which flight 304 to ACY was using until it departed 1 minute early at 9:34pm.

NK only has one other gate in use at MCO, which was occupied by a FLL-bound flight.

While I sympathize that you sat for 25 minutes, NK got you there safely and 8 minutes early. For most customers who are able to pick up a roundtrip for less than $60, there are a few things that they will probably have to to live without. Spare gates is one of them.

Sounds like he just got Audited!  rotfl 

I had great flights with spirit quite a few times myself FLL-KIN-FLL and there was the odd FLL-KIN where my bags took like 5days to catch up with me. Yes I was in a mood but hey, the price was unbeatable.  checkmark  i.e. At the time Big grin

 twocents 



Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son ;)
User currently offlineSWACLE From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 375 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3357 times:



Quoting Flightwatcher (Thread starter):
considering coin slots on airplane bathroom doors

Charging $9 fares and recruiting the lowest of the trailer park trash that graces the American skies, then charging them to take a leak. How many of these rednecks do you think will save the quarter and piss in their empty coke can, or worse, on the seat in front of them?

Charging for a basic human need = asking for a world of trouble, IMHO.

Charging for anything else is ok if tha base price is right--you get what you pay for--but not the restroom.

Don



Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6741 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3277 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
You flew from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale and return. A short-ish hop, on a nice big jet, which is a good start. Others might fly this on a Beech 1900 or a Dash-8.

... except the other carrier which flies this route is Southwest, and they fly it with a "nice big jet" and don't nickle-and-dime their passengers with all manner of fees.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
It's too bad that you didn't love your trip on Spirit, but I have to say that your complaints are pretty darn minor, compared to what frequent travelers endure every day on every carrier.

Interestingly, though, in 2008, the Department of Transportation received more complaints about Spirit -- 792 -- than Continental and Southwest, COMBINED (518 and 250, respectively). Clearly there are some issues with the quality of Spirit's service, given how much smaller it is than either CO or WN. As a point of reference, Allegiant, with a similar market positioning, had 60 complaints for 2008.

Quoting A330300 (Reply 10):
Flight 626 was scheduled to depart FLL at 8:45pm and arrive in MCO at 9:50PM
Flight 626 left the FLL gate at 8:31pm and was in the air by 8:43pm.
Flight 626 landed in MCO at 9:17pm and blocked in at 9:42pm.

Your flight was waiting for gate 32, which flight 304 to ACY was using until it departed 1 minute early at 9:34pm.

NK only has one other gate in use at MCO, which was occupied by a FLL-bound flight.

While I sympathize that you sat for 25 minutes, NK got you there safely and 8 minutes early.

Except the way this flight was operated is guaranteed to make passengers sit on the plane for 25 minutes. Departing the gate at FLL 14 minutes early for a 34 minute flight, blocked for 65 minutes, and expecting to use a gate which ordinarily would only be free about 10 minutes before scheduled arrival (allowing 5 minutes to push the ACY flight back), results in passengers sitting on the plane in MCO. It's unrealistic scheduling.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3965 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3224 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ScottB (Reply 23):
It's unrealistic scheduling.

Air travel may be down, but delays do occur. If a flight can be dispatched early, it will be dispatched early, because while the flight is held on the ground for an on-time departure, a delay may appear in one form or another and the flight may end up leaving late. So what's the better option ? Leaving early and wait at the destination airport for a gate to free up, or leave on time and run the chance that [insert random delay here] will occur and the plane will get at the destination airport [insert random amount of minutes here] late ? I think 99% of passengers will elect to leave early and spend a few extra minutes admiring the back of the seat in front of them at their destination...

When you're ready to go, you go!

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 14):
People aren't THAT stupid. Why don't airlines just cover their costs/"fees" with the ticket price, PERIOD. Do they think people don't see the total they're paying if it's broken into smaller bits??

People ARE that stupid, otherwise airlines wouldn't do it.

[Edited 2009-03-05 11:02:44]


I've got $h*t to do
25 MaverickM11 : And when was the last time they made money on their operation ?
26 ScottB : Um, Q4 of 2008. They had a net loss due to writing down mark-to-market hedging gains. But I doubt they'll make an operating profit this quarter.
27 FWAERJ : It's probably because some of NK's passengers expect a lot for a little. Plus the fact that one of their big markets is people flying from the Northe
28 Post contains images Luv2cattlecall : This one doesn't bother me too much, but Allegiant's really gets on my nerves, since their ticket counter is only open for about 2 hours a few days a
29 GSPSPOT : I don't think NK is being "trashy" per se, but having fun with the fact that they're an ultra-low-cost/fare carrier. Some of those sale names made me
30 ScottB : Really? Then one would expect JetBlue to post several times as many complaints as Spirit. And CO has a hub at EWR -- serving a market that is known f
31 OB1504 : Agreed. They may be the trashiest of the North American carriers, but it keeps their name in the press and it's not enough to make me not want to fly
32 ExFATboy : While my first reaction is that it's ridiculous to charge someone a fee to do business with you - can you imagine getting up to the cashier at a groce
33 DTWTOLBase : I wouldn't doubt that Baldanza would give consideration to the idea. After all his customer service philosophy is basically non-existant, as seen by
34 TOLtommy : Quite obviously they are, because airlines are doing that more and more. If it didn't work, pax would vote with their wallets to go to other carriers
35 GSPSPOT : I wasn't being literal, I was just pointing out the flaw in logic of the "if you raise the fare by the fee amount, and just do away with the fee, the
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