CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3391 times:
In response to the lingering pondering 'which is the largest legacy hub,' I've decided to share some information passed on to me by a friend, who works as a consultant. It was extracted from the Summer 2009 schedules and was sourced in February (thus is subject to change). The detail I'm sharing includes affiliate/mainline/total movements, destinations served & estimated total daily seats. I've also included the separate domestic totals. Information is ranked by total seat capacity, and includes only legacy network hubs.
Note that the data utilizes weekday averages (service sharply declines on Saturdays... nor will it include that bi-weekly Saturday-only 757 to Cuervo Nation) and has a small margin of error (however, there's a high degree of accuracy). Not included is ASM, estimated revenue splits, etc. (which are better measurements of true size).
My apologies, in advance, for any typos that occurred. And yes, I would've complied/presented this information differently (including AA's LAX operation, for example) so no whining.
This listing shows: hub..........affiliate-mainline-total departures.......destinations served......total daily seats
DOMESTIC & INTERNATIONAL
Atlanta (DL)...............................507-534--1047......224.........122,000
Dallas/Fort Worth (AA)...............255-488---734.......152...........83,700
Houston-Intercontinental (CO).....418-289---707.......157...........64,300
Charlotte (US)...........................331-238---569.......119...........54,300
Chicago-O'Hare (UA)..................329-240---569.......125...........53,200
Detroit-Wayne County (DL).........268-264---532.......148...........51,200
Minneapolis/St. Paul (DL)...........231-254---485.......136...........50,000
Newark (CO)..............................214-224---438.......139...........46,500
Chicago-O'Hare (AA)..................236-175---412.........99...........41,200
Miami (AA).................................45-213---258........100...........40,300
Denver (UA)...............................210-185---395.......107...........38,300
Philadelphia (US).......................279-143---429.......109...........35,300
Phoenix (US)..............................91--175---266.........81...........31,600
Washington, D.C.-Dulles (UA).....214--94---308..........97...........29,500
Salt Lake City (DL).....................245--97---342........100...........29,000
San Francisco (UA)....................122-136---258.........68...........26,600
Cincinnati (DL)...........................227--41---268..........87...........18,700
Los Angles (UA).........................114--86---200.........52............18,500
Memphis (DL)............................180--62---242..........91............17,300
Cleveland (CO)...........................165--39---204..........61............13,300
St. Louis (AA)..............................66--42---108..........38.............9,300
DOMESTIC
Atlanta (DL)...............................493-448--941.......163..........104,000
Dallas/Fort Worth (AA)...............247-445--692.......127........... 75,800
Houston-Intercontinental (CO).....354-225--579.......100............50,800
Charlotte (US)...........................327-213--540.......100............49,900
Chicago-O'Hare (UA)..................308-211--519.......104............46,500
Minneapolis/St. Paul (DL)...........217-240--457.......124............46,500
Detroit-Wayne County (DL).........247-246--493.......130............46,000
Denver (UA)...............................197-177--374........98............36,200
Chicago-O'Hare (AA)..................225-155--380.........83............34,500
Newark (CO)..............................188-148--336........78............31,000
Philadelphia (US).......................260-113--373........78............29,100
Phoenix (US)...............................85-157--242........67............28,700
Salt Lake City (DL).....................238--92--330.........92............27,700
Washington, D.C.-Dulles (UA).....200--71--272.........75............23,800
San Francisco (UA)....................112-112--224........51............23,400
Miami (AA)..................................29-100--129........40............19,000
Cincinnati (DL)...........................220--37--257.........81............17,600
Los Angles (UA).........................111--80--191........45............16,800
Memphis (DL)............................178--59--237.........87...........16,600
Cleveland (CO)...........................157--38--195.........57...........12,800
St. Louis (AA)..............................66--42--108.........38.............9,300
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3282 times:
Here are some numbers for WN (these are as of December, 2008, so they may not be quite accurate, but they give you an idea how big WN stations stack up)...
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3117 times:
Interesting to notice that the four largest domestic hub operations, Atlanta/Dallas/Houston/Charlotte, are in the Southern half of the US. The Nation continues moving South.
Acey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1341 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3065 times:
I just noticed how miserable STL has become. I remember the first time I ever flew 11 years ago, and STL was as busy as anywhere else with TW being around. Now that they're gone that airport has really gone downhill it seems like.
TheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 606 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2): Interesting to notice that the four largest domestic hub operations, Atlanta/Dallas/Houston/Charlotte, are in the Southern half of the US. The Nation continues moving South.
True. Populations in smaller northern cities are declining, and they are all moving south.
Not to mention the benefits of having large operations in the south, such as more favorable weather meaning less delays and cancellations.
I am surprised that my home town of CLT is number 4. I am amazed that that many departures go out of here.
That probably explains the construction of the third parallel runway.
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
If you take the difference of the two tables MIA comes out top hub for international service 113 mainline departures and more than 21000 seats per day. That is more than MIA domestic and greater than all of the DL CVG hub in number of seats per day.
I think this thread risks becoming how great Miami is
Runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 39 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
TheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 606 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3018 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5): If you take the difference of the two tables MIA comes out top hub for international service 113 mainline departures and more than 21000 seats per day. That is more than MIA domestic and greater than all of the DL CVG hub in number of seats per day.
I think it is more a necessity to MIA's location. It is definitely prime spot for operations to Central/South America. All of that happens to be international because there is not that much of United States surrounding them.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2975 times:
Quoting TheGMan (Reply 7): It is definitely prime spot for operations to Central/South America. All of that happens to be international because there is not that much of United States surrounding them.
Once you get north of, say, Jacksonville, MIA isn't real useful for domestic connections.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2584 times:
Quoting Runway23 (Reply 6): Where has JFK gone for DL and AA?
At this moment I don't have the complete splits but:
AMERICAN
Los Angeles..............................35--79--114
New York City-LaGuardia............41--51---98
New York City-JFK.....................33--55---88
Boston......................................40--32---72
Washington, D.C.-DCA...............30--31--61
DELTA
New York City-JFK...................104-102--206
New York City-LaGuardia............86--56--142
Boston......................................55--41---96
Washington, D.C.-DCA...............38--52---90
Los Angeles.................................4--62---66
US AIRWAYS
New York City-LGA..................157--42--199
Washington, D.C.-DCA.............118--75--193
Boston......................................33--60---99
Las Vegas..................................1---63--64
Doug From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 825 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2403 times:
What also stands out to me is the regional feed into MIA 45 flights for a mainline hub that has 213 flights.Most hubs Miami's size have a regional feed of 120-180 on average but due to location and AA having a phobia about expansion I guess I answered my own question as well as Cubsrule.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2326 times:
Quoting Doug (Reply 10): What also stands out to me is the regional feed into MIA 45 flights for a mainline hub that has 213 flights.Most hubs Miami's size have a regional feed of 120-180 on average but due to location and AA having a phobia about expansion I guess I answered my own question as well as Cubsrule.
Given Miami's very southern location there is a limited number of cities in teh Florida Keys and Bahamas American Eagle is practical for. AA mailine from Miami flies frequently to few domestic destinations and the typical list of important Caribean & Latin Capitols.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1991 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2285 times:
Quoting Acey559 (Reply 3): I just noticed how miserable STL has become. I remember the first time I ever flew 11 years ago, and STL was as busy as anywhere else with TW being around. Now that they're gone that airport has really gone downhill it seems like.
It really has slowed down, even after the initial cutback in Nov. 2003, the hub was twice as large as it is now with about 208 daily flights. Its taken a few cuts here and there over the last 5 years, but still hangs in there. Oddly enough, I connected there to ORF last summer and as small as its become the C concourse still had a buzz to it as all the flights for AA go thru there now. So the concourse still felt busy, but the good thing was that when you went to taxi and take off you didn't have to be like number 20 in line like you used to years ago
What surprises me now is how AA has shrunk ORD, at the size it is now that was about the exact same size STL was in summer 2003 (at 416 daily flights)
Hjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2238 times:
I'm surprised that DTW is 2nd in domestic cities served in the US. I would figure that ORD (UA) or DEN (UA) would have more flights. I guess it's all the those small cities in the midwest that Northwest/DL serves. Given that DTW has so much connectivity, I can see it really growing to more frequencies a la ATL.
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12): [STL] really has slowed down, even after the initial cutback in Nov. 2003, the hub was twice as large as it is now with about 208 daily flights. Its taken a few cuts here and there over the last 5 years, but still hangs in there.
Actually STL maintained similar service levels between 2003-2006, but has lost almost half its service since. In 2006, Michael Boyd predicted STL would actually increase as ORD was becoming too congested, but after AA starting cutting he quickly changed his position that STL had less than two years before it'd transition into a strong spoke within AA's network. Pretty characteristic of him .
Keep in mind that about 20% of STL's total flights, and more 35% of its total seats, are to ORD/DFW/MIA.
But I really feel for CLE. This was suppose to be the year in which CLE saw more than 300 departures... instead, it'll see about two-thirds of that (including a handful of EAS routes/flights).
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2050 times:
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 14): In 2006, Michael Boyd predicted STL would actually increase as ORD was becoming too congested, but after AA starting cutting he quickly changed his position that STL had less than two years before it'd transition into a strong spoke within AA's network. Pretty characteristic of him.
...and he's wrong on both counts... as you say, pretty characteristic.
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 14): Keep in mind that about 20% of STL's total flights, and more 35% of its total seats, are to ORD/DFW/MIA.
In fairness, though, Chicago and Dallas are STL's two largest local markets.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, 
From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, 
From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, 
Once you get north of, say, Jacksonville, MIA isn't real useful for domestic connections.
From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, 
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