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DSM-LAX On UA  
User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5978 times:

With G4 starting DSM-LAX in May, what are the chances that UA (SkyWest) will resume the route that they just discontinued at the end of last year? (I would also like to add that I am a new member and there are many airliners.net professionals out there, so be gentile on me for my first forum topic....)

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5920 times:

I'd say theres very little chance of UA ever picking the route up again, especially if G4 is on it. Considering the route didn't do well enough to keep when UA was alone on it, they'd have a tough time competing with G4 and the fares they'll be offering on the route.

On a side note, I expect G4 to do very well on this route given the pre-existing O&D traffic. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into something they run daily, or at least 5x on a year round basis.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this service returning. UA remains the #1 carrier at LAX and also seems to maintain quite a strong presence in DSM and Iowa in general.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5915 times:



Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
On a side note, I expect G4 to do very well on this route given the pre-existing O&D traffic. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into something they run daily, or at least 5x on a year round basis.

Really?

I would've never thought that much demand exsisted between the two city's. I sure hope it does well though for G4 and DSM.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Well if the route would do very well on G4 to perhaps go daily, why was the route a poor performer for UA? Especially if G4 is bringing in an MD-80 and UA used a CRJ. Doesn't make any sense. I figured UA would bring the route back because they loved pushing Vanguard Airlines out of Des Moines in the mid 90's with their price matching of fares...

User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

UA isn't really in a position to start going after airlines like G4 and their pricing structure. As it stands, UA would be better off to just let G4 have the route than to try and "match" them. But, I can see where the lower prices may stimulate more pax for the route. But I doubt it would be enough of a stimulus to constantly fill a MD83/87 daily. I just don't see that personally. But like I said earlier, I hope it does well enough to prove me wrong!!


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Speaking of UA presence in Iowa, was it me hallucinating or did I see a UA 757 at DSM the other day? And if so, when did that start, and how is it performing? I would assume that the 757 would be operating DSM-DEN?

User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5852 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 6):
Speaking of UA presence in Iowa, was it me hallucinating or did I see a UA 757 at DSM the other day? And if so, when did that start, and how is it performing? I would assume that the 757 would be operating DSM-DEN?

UAL237 DSM-DEN...the 0927a departure...is, indeed, B752.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15730 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5843 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 6):
Speaking of UA presence in Iowa, was it me hallucinating or did I see a UA 757 at DSM the other day?

I've seen UA 757s scheduled in OAGs to DSM. I think they go DEN-DSM-ORD. I've also seen the same sort of thing for Omaha.

Quoting Evanbu (Reply 4):
Well if the route would do very well on G4 to perhaps go daily, why was the route a poor performer for UA? Especially if G4 is bringing in an MD-80 and UA used a CRJ. Doesn't make any sense. I figured UA would bring the route back because they loved pushing Vanguard Airlines out of Des Moines in the mid 90's with their price matching of fares...

I'd have to think that the only way G4 will fill an MD-80 when UA can't fill a CRJ is by having a lower cost. Plus they may pick up a few pax from the "avoid CRJs at all costs" crowd. My memory is a bit foggy, but didn't the same sort of thing happen to Access Air. I was too young to remember much other than seeing one of their 732s at Peoria once.

Quoting Evanbu (Thread starter):
so be gentile on me for my first forum topic

I'm a Christian so I'm gentile to everyone. Oy.  Big grin



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25076 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

I don't see the low frequency twice weekly G4 operation as being much if any competition for UA.

If UA resumes DSM-LAX it will be because it sees adequate traffic flow over DEN that makes a LA nonstop worthwhile. For the record Tulsa is getting its LA nonstop back in June.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5812 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 6):
Speaking of UA presence in Iowa, was it me hallucinating or did I see a UA 757 at DSM the other day? And if so, when did that start, and how is it performing? I would assume that the 757 would be operating DSM-DEN?

That's been happening for a few years now. Matter of fact, I think they used to see the 757 pretty reguarly at DSM. Even DSM's arch-rival down in OMA see's the 75 pretty often from UA!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
I'm a Christian so I'm gentile to everyone. Oy

HAHA!!! Nice touch!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
If UA resumes DSM-LAX it will be because it sees adequate traffic flow over DEN that makes a LA nonstop worthwhile. For the record Tulsa is getting its LA nonstop back in June.

Agreed. I think this is the most likely senario.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

I don't remember Access Air being pushed out by UA to the same degree that UA pushed out Vanguard. Access Air's non-stops out of DSM were to MLI and COS. Those flights continued on to LGA and LAX respectively. Vanguard operated DSM-MDW. UA had really high fares to ORD and then dropped them drastically to match Vanguard. I remember as a kid we bought DSM-ORD tickets on UA for $19 one way! Once Vanguard pulled out of DSM the fares went back to normal on UA.

User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5803 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 4):
Well if the route would do very well on G4 to perhaps go daily, why was the route a poor performer for UA? Especially if G4 is bringing in an MD-80 and UA used a CRJ. Doesn't make any sense.

Because G4 sells flights and package deals at very cheap prices and flies large aircraft with relatively low costs across the board and UA is.....well the polar opposite.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):
But I doubt it would be enough of a stimulus to constantly fill a MD83/87 daily. I just don't see that personally. But like I said earlier, I hope it does well enough to prove me wrong!!

G4 is already running daily or 5-6x to some cities from SFB this summer, some in markets that they essentially created. DSM-LAX is already a bigger market than many of those which G4 starts. Its also much more of a business+ leisure destination than Orlando is.


User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

G4 has a really strong presence in DSM it seems. They operate non-stops to LAS, LAX, SFB, and PIA. It has to be one of G4 higher performing markets. I still think 2X weekly SUX-LAS would perform well and would be a blessing for those people in western Iowa. I guess that SUX is too close FSD for that to happen...

User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5782 times:



Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 12):
G4 is already running daily or 5-6x to some cities from SFB this summer, some in markets that they essentially created. DSM-LAX is already a bigger market than many of those which G4 starts. Its also much more of a business+ leisure destination than Orlando is.

This is true and I certainly see that point knowing what business' are in DSM and what ties they have to LAX and all. I can certainly, and hope as well, see this being a frequent flight for DSM. SFB always will be an almost 100% tourist airport. Business wise, it isn't really much compared to its larger counterpart south of town.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Which hub is bigger for UA? Is it LAX or SFO? Would SFO been better for DSM than LAX? Or is LAX a significantly bigger hub than SFO for UA?

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15730 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5689 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 15):
Which hub is bigger for UA? Is it LAX or SFO?

SFO by a decent margin. LAX isn't really a huge hub for anyone but is a very large spoke for everyone.

Quoting Evanbu (Reply 15):
Would SFO been better for DSM than LAX?

Only if there are a lot of people from DSM conncting to Asian flights, which I highly doubt. I'd bet that most of the LAX traffic is origin & destination. If people from Iowa wanted to fly to the western US, they would most likely connect in DEN and not all the way out in LAX.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5640 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 15):
Which hub is bigger for UA? Is it LAX or SFO? Would SFO been better for DSM than LAX? Or is LAX a significantly bigger hub than SFO for UA?

SFO's a much larger hub for them, but its also about 100 miles farther from DSM. They also appear to have around the same amount of O&D for DSM.

That said, I'd say SFO would have better loads due to the similar amount of traffic, but better connection opportunities, but thats about 3 hours in a CR7..which is probably longer than UA wants to fly it these days.

I dont think UA would pick up SFO from DSM. They can carry the bulk of any traffic they'd carry through/to SFO through DEN pretty efficiently. Given the number of seats DSM has to DEN and the frequency they run the route at, they're providing plenty of quick connection opportunities to the west coast.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6004 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5410 times:



Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
That said, I'd say SFO would have better loads due to the similar amount of traffic, but better connection opportunities, but thats about 3 hours in a CR7..which is probably longer than UA wants to fly it these days.

I don't see why not. It's not much further than ORD-YEG, and that's a good performer.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5258 times:

how are the DSM yields on most airlines?

I have to fly their about twice a year and the tickets are always high for the non-stops IAH-DSM. Nearly a month out I (or really work) paid ~$1100 and pricing the cheapest non-refundable tickets was still in the $850 range. They always seem to come in that high. Even the connection tickets available were fairly high given the long lead time.

Is it just that demand DSM-IAH is that well matched to the RJ capacity? A similar AA STL_DSM priced flight was "pricey" compared to some other similar range markets.

Am I missing the party in DSM? I suspect G4 will have success with their marketing machine.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5146 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 6):
Speaking of UA presence in Iowa, was it me hallucinating or did I see a UA 757 at DSM the other day? And if so, when did that start, and how is it performing? I would assume that the 757 would be operating DSM-DEN?

Currently, DSM gets a daily 752 to/from DEN. Usually in the higher seasons, UA will send either an extra 752 from DEN, but I haven't seen a ORD-DSM-ORD 752 flight in a while.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
I've seen UA 757s scheduled in OAGs to DSM. I think they go DEN-DSM-ORD. I've also seen the same sort of thing for Omaha.

The 733's and A319's do that, but as I said above, the 752 is just for the DEN route.

I looked in the July schedule for DSM, and there are no more 752's in the schedule, which I will add is very surprising. It's all 733/735, and A319/A320.



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineIPFreely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4013 times:

I fly out of DSM and I made two round trips to LAX during the time that UAX had the nonstops going. I never took the nonstop in any of the 4 legs. In all cases, it was $300-600 cheaper to make a connection through Denver. These days most companies will make their business travelers choose the cheaper fare when the difference is that big, especially if the time savings of the nonstop flight is only a couple of hours.

I think the new flight can be successful on DSM-LAX. UA's might have been successful also, but their pricing strategy killed any chance it had.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25076 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3902 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
I'd bet that most of the LAX traffic is origin & destination.

Indeed Des Moines-LA is a larger O&D market (209 daily pax) versus the Bay Area (165).

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
SFO's a much larger hub for them

Yes SFO has more flights in total, but its heavily built around the noon'ish Asia connectivity with smaller number of stand alone O&D markets served.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3896 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Thread starter):
With G4 starting DSM-LAX in May, what are the chances that UA (SkyWest) will resume the route that they just discontinued at the end of last year?

ZERO.....I have yet to see any airline take competitive action against G4. Really why would UA want to???? DSM-LAX isnt critical to UA's overall product portfolio

Quoting Lexy (Reply 3):
Really?

I would've never thought that much demand exsisted between the two city's. I sure hope it does well though for G4 and DSM.

Actually it was one of AccessAir's only successful routes......relatively speaking

Quoting Evanbu (Reply 13):
G4 has a really strong presence in DSM it seems. They operate non-stops to LAS, LAX, SFB, and PIA.

I think you mean PIE. Though AccessAir and Ozark did fly DSM-PIA


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3860 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 23):
Actually it was one of AccessAir's only successful routes......relatively speaking

That's a valid point actually and when looking at the average pax numbers between the two cities, I admit, i'm not surprised G4 is hopping on this! I think they will do fine. And as an aside, I think the fact they are flying into LAX is a plus for any number of destinations! Still, and I know it isn't in their model, if they allowed connections that would REALLY catapult some markets for LAX. But I digress.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
25 Phllax : I'll second that. The fares for the non-stop were always $500 or over, where as connecting in DEN was usuall in the $239-279 range, and even cheaper
26 Whataboutme : If UA were to start it back up I would like to see an E-170 fly it. Much better than a CRJ. My opinion here.
27 CIDFlyer : I realize DSM is a strong market for UA, but I was really surprised that DSM-LAX was started instead of OMA-LAX. Still puzzles me why OMA doesn't see
28 UnitedNRT : When it was last flown, it was flown by a CRJ-700.
29 Whataboutme : I believe that is what I said. Wether it is a 200 700 or 900 it is a CRJ and they are the most uncomfortable planes to ride in. Again my opinion...
30 Goldenshield : I find them quite comfortable, and better than some mainline aircraft. My opinion . . .
31 Azncsa4qf744er : When UA/OO operated that flight, it was fill up alright. But with lots of low yield fare,therefore it's often oversold especially on Sunday. Not sure
32 Avion826 : I worked the DSM-LAX route last July 4th, 2008. 16 people on board out of 66 capacity. Fourth of July is always light though. On the plus side, with t
33 Whataboutme : Again my opinion I think a CRJ of any series are uncomfortable, and if a mainline plane would be added to this route whats not to say it wouldn't be
34 Flaps : Answer - Anyone's DC3
35 LAXintl : I can agree about the 200, but the 700/900 are quite comparable to mainline jets. And so do majority of UA flyers atleast. The UAX 3 class CR7 has hi
36 Lexy : Take a trip down here to BNA and I think we may be able to work something out for ya!! HAHA!!
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