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Rumor: Republic Buying Compass?  
User currently offlineOswegobag From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

I read on some other boards about a rumor that Republic is buying Compass. Did anyone else hear this? Any thoughts?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6037 times:

Hmmmm....be interesting but I kind of doubt it. Compass is for "C" scale in terms of pay & cost structure. Those Ejets and cover everything the DC9s and some Airbuses are flying right now...I cannot see "New Delta" let that leverage slip away so easily.

User currently offlinePanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Delta has specifically said that they are keeping Compass. Where exactly did you hear this?


heroes get remembered but legends never die
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

Yeah, DL has pretty much made it clear that Compass sint't going anywhere. That's a great regional platform for them. It compliments the NW mainline service very well and it'll help DL's services as well! Puts a mainline product into markets that would otherwise only see mainline metal at certain points of the year for example.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2815 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5538 times:

Bought time. Surely it's against FARs to not have a compass.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5519 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 1):
Compass is for "C" scale in terms of pay & cost structure.

The pay scales at RW/S5 and CP really aren't all that different (especially considering that CP has the added benefit of potential flow-through to NW).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5444 times:

Correct Cubsrule...I am talking about relation to mainline operations...it is apples and tennis shoes. And as Lexy points out, which was part of my original point, CP allows new DL to offer a mainline type product to current DC9/MD80 and some 319 markets without the associated costs.

I mean anything can happen these days and I would not be shocked to see it come across the wire tomorrow that RP is going to integrate CP. But, given the mission that CP was organized to fulfill by old NW (now new DL)...I R E A L L Y doubt they would let that Ace fall on the floor.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5356 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 6):
CP allows new DL to offer a mainline type product to current DC9/MD80 and some 319 markets without the associated costs.

How is that different from TCF?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3292 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5247 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
How is that different from TCF?

Isn't Compass fully owned?


User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5228 times:

Everyone is saying that they doubt it will happen but hey it is the airline industry and anything is possible these days. Rumors were flying around the airplanes that it was going to happen but hey again it is galley gossip. I would personal like to see it happen, will make RP bigger and better.
Fly Safe Everyone


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5227 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 8):
Isn't Compass fully owned?

Yes... but that's not the point. Both Compass and Shuttle provide "a mainline type product to current DC9/MD80 and some 319 markets without the associated costs."



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1145 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5174 times:

Keep in mind Republic flies E-175's for DL under thier Shuttle America brand, and soon the Compass E-175's flying for NW will be flying for DL instead so maybe it might make sense. I believe RPA has a much bigger infrastructure than Compass as the later only flies the one type of aircraft for NW where as RPA has 3 different carriers flying for US/DL/UA/CO/AA and operating the CRJ-200, E-135/140/145 and E-170/175. At least operationally it would probably be fairly easy for RPA to intergrate the Compass aircraft and crews into I would assume the Shuttle America brand.

Regards

LGA777


User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5127 times:

Wouldn't it be easy to say instead of DL maintaining the planes to sell Compass off so all they have to do is pay RP to fly them and the fuel? My knowledge is that NW pays for everything for COmpass but I could be worng. Why add more debt if you don't need too.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9255 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4967 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Yes... but that's not the point. Both Compass and Shuttle provide "a mainline type product to current DC9/MD80 and some 319 markets without the associated costs."

as does OH,EV,XJ,OO and Freedom with the CR9.

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 12):
Wouldn't it be easy to say instead of DL maintaining the planes to sell Compass off so all they have to do is pay RP to fly them and the fuel? My knowledge is that NW pays for everything for COmpass but I could be worng

DL does this with OH and XJ and use to with EV.

IMO if RP wants to give DL the money for CP (meaning DL selling for what CP is worth not lowering the price ala ASA) then DL should do it. Witht he econ. the way it is now DL and all other airlines should be looking to get/save money. Now I don't see RP(with the econ.) using a bunch of money for something they don't need.



yep.
User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4880 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):
something they don't need.

WHat do you mean something they don't need. RP makes money and if they buy compass it means secure flying under DL conx. I see the only bad thing out of it is some pilots losing jobs (and that is not what I wnat to see happen). I look at it as a win win for both companies.
I rather see this happen instead of giving more money to other airlines. RP is famous for that.  Confused


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4864 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):
IMO if RP wants to give DL the money for CP (meaning DL selling for what CP is worth not lowering the price ala ASA) then DL should do it. Witht he econ. the way it is now DL and all other airlines should be looking to get/save money. Now I don't see RP(with the econ.) using a bunch of money for something they don't need.

 checkmark There is no need for DL to sell CP-- DL doesn't need the cash. That said, Republic almost certainly has lower (non-crew) costs for the E-Jets than does Delta/CP because Republic has so many of them. It seems like there's at least the potential for a transaction that benefits both sides.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4696 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):

IMO if RP wants to give DL the money for CP (meaning DL selling for what CP is worth not lowering the price ala ASA) then DL should do it. Witht he econ. the way it is now DL and all other airlines should be looking to get/save money. Now I don't see RP(with the econ.) using a bunch of money for something they don't need.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
That said, Republic almost certainly has lower (non-crew) costs for the E-Jets than does Delta/CP because Republic has so many of them.

Here's the problem. IF DL sells CP, RP will expect to make money on the flying. Right now the profit made on the flying goes to NW/DL. If sold, RP will have largely the same costs, PLUS profit margin on the flying.

NW had folded XJ and CP into one holding company last year. Anything back office was handled by MC Holdings. Now DL is going to fold OH back office in as well, and spin ground ops into a new company. This leaves only the pilot and FA groups working for the airlines, and having 3 separate groups at the wholly owneds makes it easier wto whipsaw them against each other at contract time, keeping their regional labor costs low.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9255 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4663 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 16):
Now DL is going to fold OH back office in as well

No, OH will still be Comair/Comair holdings. Both based in CVG. XJ/CP and the DCI HQ will be moved into the old Republic HQ in MN, I assume RHS will also be based in the same place. But again all back office Comair stuff will still be OH and not part of the stuff movinh over to MSP.

Quoting Toltommy (Reply 16):
and spin ground ops into a new company.

RHS.

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 14):
WHat do you mean something they don't need.

at this point in time its much better for airline to sit on any cash they have and not spend it. Now if RP was not making money and CP would make them money then they need it. If they are making money then they may want it but at this time its better just to wait.



yep.
User currently offlineUpstateDave From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4603 times:



Quoting Glom (Reply 4):
Bought time. Surely it's against FARs to not have a compass.

Glom - GOOD ONE!!!


As far as DL & Compass, I do have to counter the argument that Compass is a good alternative to NW mainline. This is entirely true, however DL has made it clear in the past that they are not concerned about putting a CRJ on formerly mainline routes.

I seam to remember the CR7 doing ATL-California at one point (jetBlue days in ATL), and still operate CRJs from ATL to Canada and Latin America. Those are long flights for CRJ comfort levels, but DL has never seemed to care, why would they now?



"Once you fly, you will walk with your eyes skyward. For there you will go again." Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4454 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Yes... but that's not the point. Both Compass and Shuttle provide "a mainline type product to current DC9/MD80 and some 319 markets without the associated costs."

As does Mesaba currently on the CRJ-900. Unfortunately, Delta is so short-sited that they decided to pull meals and glassware off all our flights and take us down to their awful Delta Connection service standards.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4448 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 16):
If sold, RP will have largely the same costs, PLUS profit margin on the flying.

No, Republic (not RP; that's Chautauqua) would not have the same costs. Maintaining a certificate and a fleet type both entail fixed costs. If CP became part of S5, those aircraft would only account for 1/3 of the fixed costs of a certificate and 1/3 of the fixed costs of the fleet type (actually somewhat less than that since RW flies E Jets too).

Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 18):
I seam to remember the CR7 doing ATL-California at one point

I think your memory is faulty there... I can find no CR7 flights from ATL to anywhere west of Texas in the period in which B6 had ATL open.

Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 18):
I do have to counter the argument that Compass is a good alternative to NW mainline. This is entirely true, however DL has made it clear in the past that they are not concerned about putting a CRJ on formerly mainline routes.

They are not concerned about putting a CRJ on some former mainline routes. Look at a route like MDW-ATL, though. There are almost no CR7s on the route. DL knows that there are some routes where the 70-seat service ought to look more like 50-seat service and some where the 70-seat service ought to look more like mainline service. Unlike most carriers, they have the flexibility to adjust their presence in markets as appropriate.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUpstateDave From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4200 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
DL knows that there are some routes where the 70-seat service ought to look more like 50-seat service and some where the 70-seat service ought to look more like mainline service.

Cubsrule, DL indeed has worked to adjust this as of late with the addition of the CR9s. We're seeing the CR9s used in a lot of markets replacing mainline flying, maintaining FC in those markets. My argument is that they have a lot of missions such as JFK-Texas, SLC-Texas, SLC-Middle America, and ATL-CAN that are markets where sectors are long. An EMB would me much better suited for these than an RJ.

I understand a market like MDW will return better yields, so it gets the better plane (plus more competition), but from a passenger comfort/fairness standpoint it stinks. It makes sense as a business, I'll grant you that.



"Once you fly, you will walk with your eyes skyward. For there you will go again." Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4185 times:



Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 21):
My argument is that they have a lot of missions such as JFK-Texas, SLC-Texas, SLC-Middle America, and ATL-CAN that are markets where sectors are long. An EMB would me much better suited for these than an RJ.

Frankly, the CR7 exit row seats are better than any seat on the EMB save maybe the single seats in F.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUpstateDave From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

Cubsrule, yes in legroom, but when you're 6'6' with 40 inch shoulders, the side wall curvature of the CRJ kills you everyday!

Neither of us will see eye-to-eye on this one.

-------------

Anyway, let's get back on topic... Republic is a great carrier. When I used to work with them, they were the most reliable and professional of the regionals I dealt with. With that said, flown Compass and they seemed equally as good as RP, although I have no idea what they're like to work with.

[Edited 2009-03-08 18:54:13]


"Once you fly, you will walk with your eyes skyward. For there you will go again." Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7505 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

This rumor has been around since the day Compass was started...it just resurfaces time and time again thanks to the fact that pilots & FA's love to talk.

The rumor got started because everyone thought that Bedford over at Republic wanted to buy up every single E-170/175 in the United States.

There has been nothing factual related to this rumor and the fact that DL is merging together many of the back-office functions for Mesaba, Comair, and Compass refutes this notion.


25 Cubsrule : Boy, you want leg room AND shoulder room... picky, picky, picky
26 ItalianFlyer : LMAO Seriously...to spin CP off would fly in the face of what both DL & NW have been working towards since 2001: to get away from the fee-for-departu
27 Cubsrule : Isn't there a difference between OH at the time of the pilot strike and Republic today (a relatively well-run airline)? Pilots at wholly-owneds have
28 ItalianFlyer : The big difference with the OH strike and RP today is that OH was (and is) a wholly owned subsidiary of a major (Delta) vs. RP as a stand-alone operat
29 Pilotpip : Actually, one of the results of the comair strike was Delta getting a ton of carriers to do the regional flying which would lessen the effects of a s
30 Cubsrule : I do wonder what to make of AA's strategy with respect to its regionals-- on one hand, they're looking to sell Eagle, but on the other, they just got
31 DeltaL1011man : none of DL's thre are still for sale(OH was pulled off the market, Anderson did it right before the merger) IMHO DL hasn't sold OH and stoped trying
32 UpstateDave : With the sub 70 seat market tanking, the value of the assets has been reduced substantially (i.e. value of aircraft), the selling price now compared t
33 SNCntry32 : Compass may not be legally sold until thier is a DC9 replacement on propety This thread should be locked after this post becuase there is nothing else
34 Cubsrule : What does that mean? There are 319s, CR9s, and 73Gs on property. All are-- at least partially-- -9 replacements.
35 Burnsie28 : And flow back... also CP folks have more benefits Yes 100% No, because DL wants to have as many of their regionals wholly owned. Any profit that come
36 Cubsrule : OK, so, again, what does it mean? Does it mean that CP cannot be sold until all -9s are out of the fleet, or does it mean that CP cannot be sold unti
37 Atpcliff : Hi! Chautauqua AND Republic are both subsidiarys of RAH (Republic Airline Holdings?). The DAL/NWA pilots are now looking at stapling the Compass pilot
38 Burnsie28 : Well say that the C-series is what the airline considers a DIRECT replacement to the DC-9 then yes it can be sold, if all the DC-9's are gone and sti
39 Cubsrule : From the way you're describing it, it seems impossible to sell CP-- regardless of what direction they go with -9 replacements, I think it's a pretty
40 SNCntry32 : Simple as this, if they buy a new plane that has 100-125 seats, its considered a DC9 replacement. Before the merger there were a lot of rumors about
41 Cubsrule : 319s seat 125... 319s have replaced and will replace D95s. That's why I'm confused.
42 Burnsie28 : Except the E190s would have to be flown by mainline pilots and flown with mainline FA's. 319's seat 124 in NW's configuration, in most other companie
43 Cubsrule : Burnise, I know and understand all this. That's why I'm at a loss. You said it was about seat count, but clearly it's not about seat count. It seems
44 SNCntry32 : Right. So mainline pilots merged at fas shown the door... Bursnsie, your making thigs to complicated...
45 BMI727 : The E-190 would be the ideal plane for doing the North/South Dakota runs but the fact that they would require mainline labor makes them not ideal. I
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