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DL: NW A330s And 747s On Domestic Routes?  
User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 862 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9764 times:

Hi Everyone,

Sorry if this has already been discussed. Apart from Hawaii, does DL have any plans to implement NW's A330s or 747-400s on any US domestic routes? If so, which routes would they go on? Any inter-hub routes (DTW, MSP, ATL, or even JFK)? DL used to fly one ATL-LAX flight with a 777; is it possible we could see that return or be replaced by a NW widebody aircraft, or would the loads not sustain it?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Soxfan  Smile


Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9633 times:

The plan was to have both MSP-JFK and MSP-ATL using A333's on both. However, given how the A330 is taking all FCO flying (DTW, JFK, ATL) there will no longer be a need to position A330's on MSP-JFK. MSP-ATL, however, seems to still be in the works for A333 positioning [revenue] flights.


A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9584 times:
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Quoting Soxfan (Thread starter):
DL used to fly one ATL-LAX flight with a 777; is it possible we could see that return

ATL-LAX will get the 777 again (the 772LR in fact) starting July 1 as part of the new ATL-LAX-SYD service.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9590 times:

My guess is that we might see some widebodies on the hub-to-hub high-capacity routes, like ATL-DTW and ATL-MSP. In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.

I doubt you'll see much other than that, though. And I doubt a 744 will really be flown on any domestic routes short of the occasional repositioning flight.


User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9527 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
My guess is that we might see some widebodies on the hub-to-hub high-capacity routes, like ATL-DTW and ATL-MSP. In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.

Very true, but do you think they would employ the domestic 767-300s given that they have so many of them? However, the A330-300 in its current configuration has 298 seats (34J/264Y), while the domestic 763 has just 252 seats (24J/238Y).



Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineSectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9370 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4):
Very true, but do you think they would employ the domestic 767-300s given that they have so many of them? However, the A330-300 in its current configuration has 298 seats (34J/264Y), while the domestic 763 has just 252 seats (24J/238Y).

Any chance we will see 763 or any wide body service back at BDL. Those were the good old days!


User currently offline764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9018 times:

Actually I am booked on a 330 from JFK to MSP this summer, so at least once in a while they use them on that route.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8970 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4):

Very true, but do you think they would employ the domestic 767-300s given that they have so many of them? However, the A330-300 in its current configuration has 298 seats (34J/264Y), while the domestic 763 has just 252 seats (24J/238Y).

Remember that Hub-to-Hub requires a balance of frequency and capacity. It's one of the few places where more frequency is truly better, since it lets you better plan the flow of passengers through your hubs. A 744 probably would have too much capacity on a hub-to-hub route to merit its use. Smaller widebodies, like the 763 are the way to go. NW flies a lot of 752-s and I think some 753's MSP-DTW (and a lot of DC-9's, which I find interesting).

For larger, more congested hubs like JFK and ATL, larger planes are the way to go. MSP and DTW are generally so congested, so smaller, more frequent hub-to-hub flights are the way to go.

One thing's for damned sure, when I lived in SE Michigan and had an interview at U-Minn, I had no lack of choice for flight times!


User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1080 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8957 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.

The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.


User currently offlineTristarcrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8858 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4):
I doubt you'll see much other than that, though. And I doubt a 744 will really be flown on any domestic routes short of the occasional repositioning fligh

I think you are right for this summer especially given the falling demand but Delta has always been known for flying their 777's and MD-11 domestically. Much better chance to catch the A330's though. I could see a one stop 744 from ATL-LAX-NRT, MSP-LAX-NRT, ATL-LAX-HNL-NRT, etc. Or maybe 744 ATL-LAX-SYD. But not anytime soon. Think the single operating certificate is key and further merging of the two companies. I was surprised they mixed the fleets around for this summer given that DAL has no parts, maintenance equipment, flight crews or experience for the 744 or Airbuses in ATL. That got to be worth something.



717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8622 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Remember that Hub-to-Hub requires a balance of frequency and capacity. It's one of the few places where more frequency is truly better, since it lets you better plan the flow of passengers through your hubs.

Hub-to-Hub flights are also important in moving employees.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.

The -40 were retired by early 2002 although at least one or two was kept as a spare. Regularly scheduled domestic (excluding Hawaii) DC-10 flights ended at the conclusion of the Holiday 2001 schedule (first week of January).

Quoting 764 (Reply 6):
Actually I am booked on a 330 from JFK to MSP this summer, so at least once in a while they use them on that route.

Not anymore. JFK/MSP 333 service was dropped with Saturday's schedule change.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2223 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8482 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.

I remember flying on the DC10 between MEM and MSP in 2001 and 2002. Loved it!

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.



Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
The -40 were retired by early 2002 although at least one or two was kept as a spare. Regularly scheduled domestic (excluding Hawaii) DC-10 flights ended at the conclusion of the Holiday 2001 schedule (first week of January).

yep they ended that in 2002. I can remember my DC10 flights that I took between MSP and MEM turned into a 753 by 2003


User currently offlineIlanbwoy From Jamaica, joined Feb 2009, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7811 times:

There will be a 777-200lr flight daily between atl and lax. This plane then goes onwards to syd route. I believe it starts july 1.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7704 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):

The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.

Why such a nightmare? I mean, I guess the destinations aren't all that scintillating, but still...


User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7541 times:

I remember flying on DC-10's on the PHX/MSP route.

Occasionally there would be a 742 that would work PHX/MSP.

My first trip in a DC-10 was in the middle seat of 5, what a bad flight.

My second was in first class MSP-PHX late night with about 10 of us in front, what a difference between the two flights!


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6255 times:

As the ATL -- FCO -- ATL flights move to 333s, that would eliminate the plane from doing anything between arrival in ATL and departing again for FCO, unless they round robin with another plane.

What might make some sense would be to another high traffic to "finish" the day, say FCO -- ATL -- ORD/DEN/SLC or something and use the same flight as a morning flight to ATL.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1080 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4697 times:



Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 11):
yep they ended that in 2002. I can remember my DC10 flights that I took between MSP and MEM turned into a 753 by 2003

Thank you CID....times flies
 Big grin
I thought it went on longer but yes I think your time frame is correct. Like many junior folks at the time, I got stuck on that day pattern ALLOT and tried to block it from my memory hehe.

Yes, there were a number of crew members being positioned on that hub hop. It was not uncommon to push back with 11 Captains, 23 F/Os and 58 F/As. Im not kidding lol.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2153 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4595 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 15):
As the ATL -- FCO -- ATL flights move to 333s, that would eliminate the plane from doing anything between arrival in ATL and departing again for FCO, unless they round robin with another plane.

ATL 445PM FCO 825AM+1
FCO 1010AM ATL 320PM.

ATL 535PM LGW 700AM+1
LGW 900AM ATL 115PM

As you can see from the above schedules there is a swap (ie. incoming LGW goes to FCO and vice versa). There's no scope for doing any domestic turns like you suggest.


User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4325 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 17):
As you can see from the above schedules there is a swap

Why is that? Is 1h25m too short of a turnaround time for the FCO flight? I could understand, though, if more time on the ground is necessary for both aircraft if any maintenance issues arise, or so there won't be as much of a rush to cater/prepare for the FCO flight.



Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

Isnt the 753 considered a domestic widebody? I will be intrested to see how these are deployed or if they will stay as is on MSP rotations mainliy..


Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

I hope that DL brings the A320 or A330 to JAX,MCO and TPA. the load factor is there for all these Florida cities.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3970 times:



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 19):
Isnt the 753 considered a domestic widebody? I will be intrested to see how these are deployed or if they will stay as is on MSP rotations mainliy..

No, they are not a widebody, that word only refers to 7+ greater abreast, and / or twin aisle jets. You may be thinking "heavy," so yes, all 757s are heavies.

Yes it will be interesting what Delta decides to do with them. Since they are so special, there is no doubt Delta will find some new jobs for them.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3955 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
MSP and DTW are generally so congested

I've never found MSP and DTW that congested, in fact they are among the less-congested US hubs I've used.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3952 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
so yes, all 757s are heavies.

Negative.

The NW domestic 752's are certified to 225,000# MGTOW, below the 250,000# mark for the 'heavy' designation.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3811 times:



Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 20):
hope that DL brings the A320 or A330 to JAX,MCO and TPA. the load factor is there for all these Florida cities.

All 3 are good 753 candidates (JAX especially-- they can't seem to get enough narrowbody capacity on that route).

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
Hub-to-Hub flights are also important in moving employees.

...and airplanes. That at least partially explains DL's lineup on ATL-JFK (175, M88, 2x 738, 2x 763).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 Davescj : I didn't realize these planes swiched between the two cities. I thought the plane from FCO went straight back to FCO. You're right -- there is simply
26 FFlyerWorld : Can anyone tell me where the other A330-300 will come from to fly either the ATL - LGW or ATL - FCO flight on April 1st? One arrives from MSP - ATL mi
27 Flighty : Thanks very much, oops.
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