Soxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 854 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8278 times:
Hi Everyone,
Sorry if this has already been discussed. Apart from Hawaii, does DL have any plans to implement NW's A330s or 747-400s on any US domestic routes? If so, which routes would they go on? Any inter-hub routes (DTW, MSP, ATL, or even JFK)? DL used to fly one ATL-LAX flight with a 777; is it possible we could see that return or be replaced by a NW widebody aircraft, or would the loads not sustain it?
Thanks for your thoughts!
Soxfan
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3140 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8147 times:
The plan was to have both MSP-JFK and MSP-ATL using A333's on both. However, given how the A330 is taking all FCO flying (DTW, JFK, ATL) there will no longer be a need to position A330's on MSP-JFK. MSP-ATL, however, seems to still be in the works for A333 positioning [revenue] flights.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4590 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8098 times:
Quoting Soxfan (Thread starter): DL used to fly one ATL-LAX flight with a 777; is it possible we could see that return
ATL-LAX will get the 777 again (the 772LR in fact) starting July 1 as part of the new ATL-LAX-SYD service.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16838 posts, RR: 57 Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8104 times:
My guess is that we might see some widebodies on the hub-to-hub high-capacity routes, like ATL-DTW and ATL-MSP. In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.
I doubt you'll see much other than that, though. And I doubt a 744 will really be flown on any domestic routes short of the occasional repositioning flight.
Soxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 854 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8041 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): My guess is that we might see some widebodies on the hub-to-hub high-capacity routes, like ATL-DTW and ATL-MSP. In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.
Very true, but do you think they would employ the domestic 767-300s given that they have so many of them? However, the A330-300 in its current configuration has 298 seats (34J/264Y), while the domestic 763 has just 252 seats (24J/238Y).
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
Sectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7884 times:
Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4): Very true, but do you think they would employ the domestic 767-300s given that they have so many of them? However, the A330-300 in its current configuration has 298 seats (34J/264Y), while the domestic 763 has just 252 seats (24J/238Y).
Any chance we will see 763 or any wide body service back at BDL. Those were the good old days!
764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 608 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7532 times:
Actually I am booked on a 330 from JFK to MSP this summer, so at least once in a while they use them on that route.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16838 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7484 times:
Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4):
Very true, but do you think they would employ the domestic 767-300s given that they have so many of them? However, the A330-300 in its current configuration has 298 seats (34J/264Y), while the domestic 763 has just 252 seats (24J/238Y).
Remember that Hub-to-Hub requires a balance of frequency and capacity. It's one of the few places where more frequency is truly better, since it lets you better plan the flow of passengers through your hubs. A 744 probably would have too much capacity on a hub-to-hub route to merit its use. Smaller widebodies, like the 763 are the way to go. NW flies a lot of 752-s and I think some 753's MSP-DTW (and a lot of DC-9's, which I find interesting).
For larger, more congested hubs like JFK and ATL, larger planes are the way to go. MSP and DTW are generally so congested, so smaller, more frequent hub-to-hub flights are the way to go.
One thing's for damned sure, when I lived in SE Michigan and had an interview at U-Minn, I had no lack of choice for flight times!
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 948 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7471 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.
The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.
Tristarcrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 306 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7372 times:
Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4): I doubt you'll see much other than that, though. And I doubt a 744 will really be flown on any domestic routes short of the occasional repositioning fligh
I think you are right for this summer especially given the falling demand but Delta has always been known for flying their 777's and MD-11 domestically. Much better chance to catch the A330's though. I could see a one stop 744 from ATL-LAX-NRT, MSP-LAX-NRT, ATL-LAX-HNL-NRT, etc. Or maybe 744 ATL-LAX-SYD. But not anytime soon. Think the single operating certificate is key and further merging of the two companies. I was surprised they mixed the fleets around for this summer given that DAL has no parts, maintenance equipment, flight crews or experience for the 744 or Airbuses in ATL. That got to be worth something.
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7136 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): Remember that Hub-to-Hub requires a balance of frequency and capacity. It's one of the few places where more frequency is truly better, since it lets you better plan the flow of passengers through your hubs.
Hub-to-Hub flights are also important in moving employees.
Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8): The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.
The -40 were retired by early 2002 although at least one or two was kept as a spare. Regularly scheduled domestic (excluding Hawaii) DC-10 flights ended at the conclusion of the Holiday 2001 schedule (first week of January).
Quoting 764 (Reply 6): Actually I am booked on a 330 from JFK to MSP this summer, so at least once in a while they use them on that route.
Not anymore. JFK/MSP 333 service was dropped with Saturday's schedule change.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1991 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6996 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): In 2001, I remember flying from MSP to DTW on a DC-10.
I remember flying on the DC10 between MEM and MSP in 2001 and 2002. Loved it!
Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8): The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10): The -40 were retired by early 2002 although at least one or two was kept as a spare. Regularly scheduled domestic (excluding Hawaii) DC-10 flights ended at the conclusion of the Holiday 2001 schedule (first week of January).
yep they ended that in 2002. I can remember my DC10 flights that I took between MSP and MEM turned into a 753 by 2003
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16838 posts, RR: 57 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6218 times:
Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
The DC10-40 hub hop DTW MSP MEM DTW lasted till about 04/05 when the 75-300s arrived. It was every reserves worst nightmare for years lol.
Why such a nightmare? I mean, I guess the destinations aren't all that scintillating, but still...
Afitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 812 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6055 times:
I remember flying on DC-10's on the PHX/MSP route.
Occasionally there would be a 742 that would work PHX/MSP.
My first trip in a DC-10 was in the middle seat of 5, what a bad flight.
My second was in first class MSP-PHX late night with about 10 of us in front, what a difference between the two flights!
Davescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4769 times:
As the ATL -- FCO -- ATL flights move to 333s, that would eliminate the plane from doing anything between arrival in ATL and departing again for FCO, unless they round robin with another plane.
What might make some sense would be to another high traffic to "finish" the day, say FCO -- ATL -- ORD/DEN/SLC or something and use the same flight as a morning flight to ATL.
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 948 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3211 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 11): yep they ended that in 2002. I can remember my DC10 flights that I took between MSP and MEM turned into a 753 by 2003
Thank you CID....times flies
I thought it went on longer but yes I think your time frame is correct. Like many junior folks at the time, I got stuck on that day pattern ALLOT and tried to block it from my memory hehe.
Yes, there were a number of crew members being positioned on that hub hop. It was not uncommon to push back with 11 Captains, 23 F/Os and 58 F/As. Im not kidding lol.
Runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 39 Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3109 times:
Quoting Davescj (Reply 15): As the ATL -- FCO -- ATL flights move to 333s, that would eliminate the plane from doing anything between arrival in ATL and departing again for FCO, unless they round robin with another plane.
ATL 445PM FCO 825AM+1
FCO 1010AM ATL 320PM.
ATL 535PM LGW 700AM+1
LGW 900AM ATL 115PM
As you can see from the above schedules there is a swap (ie. incoming LGW goes to FCO and vice versa). There's no scope for doing any domestic turns like you suggest.
Soxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 854 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2839 times:
Quoting Runway23 (Reply 17): As you can see from the above schedules there is a swap
Why is that? Is 1h25m too short of a turnaround time for the FCO flight? I could understand, though, if more time on the ground is necessary for both aircraft if any maintenance issues arise, or so there won't be as much of a rush to cater/prepare for the FCO flight.
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
SNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2652 times:
Isnt the 753 considered a domestic widebody? I will be intrested to see how these are deployed or if they will stay as is on MSP rotations mainliy..
DELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2570 times:
I hope that DL brings the A320 or A330 to JAX,MCO and TPA. the load factor is there for all these Florida cities.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7451 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2484 times:
Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 19): Isnt the 753 considered a domestic widebody? I will be intrested to see how these are deployed or if they will stay as is on MSP rotations mainliy..
No, they are not a widebody, that word only refers to 7+ greater abreast, and / or twin aisle jets. You may be thinking "heavy," so yes, all 757s are heavies.
Yes it will be interesting what Delta decides to do with them. Since they are so special, there is no doubt Delta will find some new jobs for them.
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3140 posts, RR: 14 Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2466 times:
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21246 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2325 times:
Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 20): hope that DL brings the A320 or A330 to JAX,MCO and TPA. the load factor is there for all these Florida cities.
All 3 are good 753 candidates (JAX especially-- they can't seem to get enough narrowbody capacity on that route).
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10): Hub-to-Hub flights are also important in moving employees.
...and airplanes. That at least partially explains DL's lineup on ATL-JFK (175, M88, 2x 738, 2x 763).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 Davescj: I didn't realize these planes swiched between the two cities. I thought the plane from FCO went straight back to FCO. You're right -- there is simply
26 FFlyerWorld: Can anyone tell me where the other A330-300 will come from to fly either the ATL - LGW or ATL - FCO flight on April 1st? One arrives from MSP - ATL mi
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