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Qantas Codeshare Agreement With Etihad  
User currently offlineImag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2009/mar09/3899

Is this new news?

I’m just wondering – is it a sign that QANTAS is trying to fend off Etihad Airways or is it Etihad Airways struggling in the Australian market and in need of extra feeder passengers – or something else?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8447 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

To get a foothold in the middle eastern market without having to forge their own way.

User currently offlineVHTAE From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

This is interesting news. I recently read Virgin Blue's Voyeur magazine and on the Codeshare Destinations page it states that Etihad is a partner of Virgin Blue.

Does anybody know how the new Qantas codeshare arrangement effects DJ's current arrangement with Etihad?

Thanks VH-TAE.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4346 times:



Quoting VHTAE (Reply 2):
Does anybody know how the new Qantas codeshare arrangement effects DJ's current arrangement with Etihad?

Probably won;t effect them at all. It is only an interline agreement. Something most airlines have with each other.


User currently offlineGayrugbyman From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Are QF codesharing on the EY route from AUH to MAN?

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4227 times:



Quoting Gayrugbyman (Reply 4):
Are QF codesharing on the EY route from AUH to MAN?

I highly doubt it. My guess is this move is Aimed at Emirates. Why? QF frequent flyers to the middle east can take etihad, thereby stealing away lucrative O and D passengers from Emirates. Etihad, of all of the 3 "emirates clones' is probably the least threat to QF. Qatar..though not really in the market yet would appear to be a more aggressive player. But I'd say the main target was Emirates. Qantas once had a very similar code share with EK... long gone of course after EK started playing seriously into the market for Aust-Europe travel.

Kind of like the QF-AF codeshare was aimed at Malaysia Airlines and the like. For the frequent flyer addict... taking EK and giving QF some of the money will look all the sweeter.


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4127 times:



Quoting Gayrugbyman (Reply 4):
Are QF codesharing on the EY route from AUH to MAN?

The answer to your question, and all detail in full can be found at: www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/pub...details?ArticleID=2009/mar09/3899.
Quick answer is no.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineMashimaro1 From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4052 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 5):
Kind of like the QF-AF codeshare was aimed at Malaysia Airlines and the like. For the frequent flyer addict... taking EK and giving QF some of the money will look all the sweeter.

Sorry but do you mean taking EY? I'm a bit confused as to what you meant.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3863 times:



Quoting Imag (Thread starter):
is it a sign that QANTAS is trying to fend off Etihad Airways or is it Etihad Airways struggling in the Australian market and in need of extra feeder passengers – or something else?

This is aimed squarely at Emirates and in securing access to a part of the world where QF has no presence of its own. I've long speculated that OW would court either Emirates, Gulf or Etihad and it looks like we now have an answer. I'd see this as the start of something bigger because Etihad definitely has plans to expand its presence in Australia.

Quoting VHTAE (Reply 2):
Does anybody know how the new Qantas codeshare arrangement effects DJ's current arrangement with Etihad?

It probably won't at all and it certainly gives Etihad two valuable sources of feed from Australia.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 5):
But I'd say the main target was Emirates.

Agreed. A more aggressive QF partnered with an expanding airline like Etihad would definitely be a threat to Emirates. But the question is one of O&D traffic for QF and how much if it the Middle East can generate.

The next thing the Australian Government needs to do is negotiate Open Skies with Europe so that QF can get into Paris more than 3 times per week. That will open QF to start services to CDG on its own metal and further expand the AF partnership.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 5):
Kind of like the QF-AF codeshare was aimed at Malaysia Airlines and the like.

Don't you find it interesting that QF isn't codesharing with its own OW partner CX to Paris even though you can connect to 2 AF services via HKG?


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3854 times:



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
To get a foothold in the middle eastern market without having to forge their own way.

*yawn* ... It's surprising they didn't code share with Royal Jordanian out of Bangkok to be perfectly honest, considering they're a oneworld partner and all.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3721 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 8):
This is aimed squarely at Emirates and in securing access to a part of the world where QF has no presence of its own. I've long speculated that OW would court either Emirates, Gulf or Etihad and it looks like we now have an answer. I'd see this as the start of something bigger because Etihad definitely has plans to expand its presence in Australia.

ditto, 100 per cent, now does a deal with MH look likely at all?



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3671 times:



Quoting TN486 (Reply 10):
now does a deal with MH look likely at all?

Nope. I've always thought that was a dumb idea anyway. Why compete with the South East Asian Airlines when you can overfly their hubs and get them substantially closer to Europe? I'm glad that this tie up opens a path for this strategy. Hopefully now Etihad will now expand into PER & ADL to cover the whole of Australia.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3636 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 11):
Nope. I've always thought that was a dumb idea anyway. Why compete with the South East Asian Airlines when you can overfly their hubs and get them substantially closer to Europe?

It's a dumb idea only if you think that Europe will continue to generate most of your traffic.
If QF wants better access to India, China and other planes in SE Asia, then an arrangement makes more sense...

all you need to do is have a look at their attempts to serve the Indian market to work this out.

so while a mid east hub is good for Europe traffic, an Asian hub caters for both markets..


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3536 times:



Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 12):
It's a dumb idea only if you think that Europe will continue to generate most of your traffic.

2 points in response;

1. You missed access to the Middle East and North East Africa out of the equation both of which have little to no QF coverage. So you add Europe to both of them and I'd call that smart.
2. If you want to get somewhere in Asia you fly direct from Australia. QF already has JQ Asia in Singapore and will be expanding in Vietnam. Both of these will provide future coverage for the QF group in South East Asia along with CX mid Asia and JAL in Northern Asia. QF didn't need MH for strategic reasons.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 12):
If QF wants better access to India, China and other planes in SE Asia, then an arrangement makes more sense...

If QF wants to send people to China they're not going to go to KL to stopover if you're in BNE/SYD or MEL. You'll fly to SYD and take the direct services. I'm sure when the economy picks up you'll see PVG service from MEL return and I think QF is overdue to try China service from PER and BNE given the mining interests that the Chinese will have by the time this recession is over. As for India, QF will continue to serve India via Singapore and expanded codeshares. Again, QF doesn't need MH to do that.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 12):
all you need to do is have a look at their attempts to serve the Indian market to work this out.

Hence the move to Singapore. We'll see how well that pans out but, just like China, QF will eventually find a profitable way to serve it direct. It just takes them longer than others to figure out the how bit.


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

Flying a kite here, but can anyone see EY becoming involved in ONEWORLD in the future?


remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3399 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
As for India, QF will continue to serve India via Singapore and expanded codeshares. Again, QF doesn't need MH to do that.

Some countries are better served through hubs rather than non stops. SYD-BOM connects one Australian city with one Indian city. Singapore Airlines, and to a smaller extent MH and TG can connect several Australian cities with several Indian cities. Some of the Singapore Airlines departures out of Australia are designed to connect with their services to India - the departures out of SYD just before midday.

The best way for Qantas to connect Australia and India is a joint operation with Jet Airways. They could use a choice of connecting cities.


User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

The interesting part of this deal is a codeshare with QF on the MEL-AKL route.
Does this mean AKL-MEL-AUH flights will be timed to synch in with each other?
I can see this will work opn AUH-MEL-AKL , but on the reverse there won't appear to be a connection.


I hope this wont turn out the way the initial QF/EK deal went - it disbanded quite bitterly after some 12 months.


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1676 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

My suspicion is that as soon as EY bears its true colours, and starts doing the exact same thing as EK (vying for Australia-Europe market), then the QF will be no more.
Then who will QF code-share with? Gulf Air, on a measely BAH-SIN-SYD A340 twice a week?
If QF wants to take matters into its own hands, they should fly to DXB themselves.


User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

Directorguy, I agree - if QF ever wants to tackle the Middle East market, they need to fly their own metal there , whether it be O&D, or hub traffic they are after. They will however need a strong code share partner waiting for them at a Gulf Airport, BA would be ideal but that would limit them to the UK market only.
The other option is to fly Australia-Gulf-UK/Europe themselves.
I guess the way SIN/BKK/HKG has worked for them, DXB, DOH etc could work the same as well to a certain extent.


User currently offlineAirbus1 From United Arab Emirates, joined Feb 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Flying another kite - could this lead to a significant Abu Dhabi (on behalf of Etihad) investment into Qantas. The QF/BA talks failed to come to anything. Anything up to 49% might be welcome?

Thoughts.

Airbus1


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3089 times:



Quoting Airbus1 (Reply 19):
Flying another kite - could this lead to a significant Abu Dhabi (on behalf of Etihad) investment into Qantas. The QF/BA talks failed to come to anything. Anything up to 49% might be welcome?

Thoughts.

Airbus1

there has also been some conjecture that Abu Dhabi (on behalf of Etihad) may make a considerable investment in EK. There was a thread on this matter not so long ago. So, more kites flying, interesting times. However, I believe that if the EY/QF thing works it will go a long way to ensureing QF is part of the "global consolidation" that all these CEO'S have been talking about lately.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2914 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 15):
The best way for Qantas to connect Australia and India is a joint operation with Jet Airways. They could use a choice of connecting cities.

I agree with you on that. I think that if QF is serious about using SIN as a connecting point then they need earlier flights out of Australian cities for connections to them. I think it'll eventually happen once the 787's start arriving and JQ startes seriously building its long haul network but for now we'll just have to wait and see. Certainly an expanded codeshare into India with an Indian Carrier would be a good thing for QF.

Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 16):
I hope this wont turn out the way the initial QF/EK deal went - it disbanded quite bitterly after some 12 months.

Lets hope not but I think EY is a tad different to EK in that they are not as bent on domination in their own right and recognise that having good partners is a decent way of competing against EK.

Quoting Directorguy (Reply 17):
If QF wants to take matters into its own hands, they should fly to DXB themselves.

I think once the 787's start arrving you will see exactly that. By that stage they'll have to be in there with their own metal if they want some market share.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 20):
However, I believe that if the EY/QF thing works it will go a long way to ensureing QF is part of the "global consolidation" that all these CEO'S have been talking about lately.

Indeed QF needs to buy a hub closer to Europe than South East Asia. EY is a logical partner in a growing region and although I don't buy the Consolidation theories for QF, principally because the Government will never legislate away the 49% cap, a closer partnership with a Middle Eastern carrier will be essential in the years to come.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2702 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 17):
My suspicion is that as soon as EY bears its true colours, and starts doing the exact same thing as EK (vying for Australia-Europe market), then the QF will be no more.
Then who will QF code-share with? Gulf Air, on a measely BAH-SIN-SYD A340 twice a week?
If QF wants to take matters into its own hands, they should fly to DXB themselves.

You could argue that DXB might be a good stop for QF on the way to London. It could be run just as a tech stop (and how many people really get out at SIN, BKK or HKG - when I have been travelling through those cities on several airlines, including Asian carriers, only a handful of people seem to leave the plane and go into the city, so DXB would be no worse than that). If Qantas pick up some passengers at DXB, that would be a bonus on the way to London, and it would be likely some of those passengers would be in First Class, so it could be a worthwhile stop for Qantas. Dubai is not just a hub for EK - it is a good port for many airlines that fly into it. Obviously if Qantas did fly DXB-LHR that would have to suit BA, their partner. One reason why Qantas is not flying BOM-LHR


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4907 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Fantastic news for both QF and EY...

This move will finally allow QF presence in the middle eastern market which I personally feel QF had to enter some how... EY have a better product over EK and I hope this relationship between the 2 carriers strengthens over time...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

In relation to EY joining an aliance:

Mr Hogan said Eithad had avoided joining major alliances in favour of strong bilateral alliances. He said eventually he would like to see a network-wide codeshare on both partners.

Source.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

If I remember rightly, the Qantas Gulf Air codeshare was Cairo, Athens, Istanbul and Beirut. The new QF/EY deal does not yet include all those cities.

The Gulf Air deal happened when Hogan was running Gulf, and Gulf suspended Australian routes after he left. Now Gulf is getting into 77Ws, it would be easy for them to pick up some 77Ls and return to Australian cities on a non stop basis from BAH.


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