FlyingSicilian From Croatia, joined Mar 2009, 824 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1650 times:
In the current economy I presume 'no' since so much service is contracting, but could FTW get service again in the near future? I know Mesa tried it some time ago but it seemed to be marketed poorly from what I am told.
WN with some flights to HOU and AUS or possible CO ex IAH to FTW?
In my experiance, doing business in downtown/west/southwest Ft Worth can be a pain from DFW (from DAL horrid) compared to DT Dallas from Love or DT Houston from Hobby.
Any rumours out there? Does the Wright amendment still cover FTW as it did DAL?
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1551 times:
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Thread starter): In the current economy I presume 'no' since so much service is contracting, but could FTW get service again in the near future? I know Mesa tried it some time ago but it seemed to be marketed poorly from what I am told.
WN with some flights to HOU and AUS or possible CO ex IAH to FTW?
In my experiance, doing business in downtown/west/southwest Ft Worth can be a pain from DFW (from DAL horrid) compared to DT Dallas from Love or DT Houston from Hobby.
Any rumours out there? Does the Wright amendment still cover FTW as it did DAL?
One word, two letters: NO.
FTW is more than adequately served by DFW. DAL is only open because WN pushed for it. There's no way they would ever start service at FTW when they have plenty of traffic (and possibilities) at DAL.
Avconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1499 times:
Hopefully, you do not believe AA "pullout" excuse is they're waiting for DAL construction to be completed? The DFW Metroplex is well served. Yes, the Wright Amendment will be lifted, but overall the new destinations will no be full blown. The DFW community is well accustomed to DFW. Remember, DFW is a powerful "PR" machine!!!
FlyingSicilian From Croatia, joined Mar 2009, 824 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1491 times:
Thank you, though, my post said nothing of AA. Really I could care less about AA. I care about the convenience of doing business in DT Fort Worth and not dealing with the hasle of DFW to get in and out of town quickly. I have flown corporate to FTW several times and it perfect for business flyers.
FTW had service from Mesa within a decade or so, so it is not like a "green alien" concept to have some service there.
I appreciate the fact the idea is not front line at CO or WN or some other regional player but I am wondering if anyone in the area around FTW has heard even rumours of such service since the Mesa pullout?
The only reason I brought up the Wright amendment was in relation to the size of the airplane that could service FTW say COex's 50 seater versus a WN jet, like DAL.
In a perfect world for one of my businesses CO would still fly to places like EFD and SJT as well, but hey, I know you can't have everything. I am still interested in hearing what some folks on the ground at FTW have heard.
[Edited 2009-03-15 00:20:23]
Edit, while it is not worth much, Wikipedia has info on prior COex service killed after the Sept 11th attacks (and it is linked to other "real" sources) Thus my question.
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2855 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1472 times:
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 3): I appreciate the fact the idea is not front line at CO
COEx did have plans at one point, recently I think, to establish service to IAH, just prior to one of the economic (or fuel) downturns, and it never materialized. You are correct, it isn't an alien thought. Poll the Fort Worth business community. Would they support greater convenience in a way that would allow an airline to profit? So far, no, but what have been the choices -- Mesa with jet service, and a variety of commuter operators with small turboprops. Supposedly these tried to capture the intrastate market. What if someone offered a meaningful connection to, say, PHX (US), ORD (UA), DEN (UA) or ATL (DL)? If not that, then it would need to be a new entrant or niche airline trying to stand out.
Then again, although DAL is long-established for that side of the metroplex, DFW isn't necessarily an ugly experience that drives people to seek alternatives. Or is it? I seldom fly to the Metroplex, only connect. Connecting at DFW can be a drag, comparatively, but that isn't relevant to FTW.
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1412 times:
Quoting Rampart (Reply 4): Then again, although DAL is long-established for that side of the metroplex, DFW isn't necessarily an ugly experience that drives people to seek alternatives. Or is it? I seldom fly to the Metroplex, only connect. Connecting at DFW can be a drag, comparatively, but that isn't relevant to FTW.
I try and avoid the "city to the north" (and it's not Ft. Worth) as much as possible but when I have to go to Ft. Worth which is around 5-6 times a year, the drive to Ft. Worth isn't all that bad as I seem to be going against traffic each way....but if I had a chance to fly CO to FTW would I, you bet your "city to the north" I would. IMHO, just don't see starting up FTW ops in this economy.
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 3): In a perfect world for one of my businesses CO would still fly to places like EFD and SJT as well, but hey, I know you can't have everything. I am still interested in hearing what some folks on the ground at FTW have heard.
AH the EFD days!!!
[Edited 2009-03-15 07:08:48]
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1378 times:
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 3): while it is not worth much, Wikipedia has info on prior COex service killed after the Sept 11th attacks (and it is linked to other "real" sources) Thus my question.
It may have been proposed, but was never announced, let alone started. Wikipedia is notorious for postings like that. Don't rely on them as an accurate source of aviation information.
FlyingSicilian From Croatia, joined Mar 2009, 824 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1339 times:
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6): It may have been proposed, but was never announced, let alone started. Wikipedia is notorious for postings like that. Don't rely on them as an accurate source of aviation information.
I am well aware of wikipedia's faults, thus I noted it was "not worth much" when I posted the quote from Wiki, but it was also backed up with links to actual news/sources.
IAHFLYR, I have no problem driving long distances, but the Ft Worth day trip back and forth is a bit much for me due to the early wake up needed, and drive in the night before. I usually fly myself when I am back in Texas and FTW is quite convenient.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1275 times:
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 7): I am well aware of wikipedia's faults, thus I noted it was "not worth much" when I posted the quote from Wiki, but it was also backed up with links to actual news/sources.
That's good to hear. You'd be surprised how many people think Wikipedia is a reliable source of information. As for CO at FTW, I can see why they were interested in ExpressJet serving the market, but after 9/11 a lot of proposals were sent straight to the shredder, never to return. US, for example, was all set to add PITAMS to their transatlantic network for 2002, that was never announced or loaded. US also had announced and loaded PITPDX, PITSJC, and PHLPDX as well, all of which never started (at least on the old US Airways). Some of my classmates from travel school were offered F/A positions with ExpressJet and then were told they weren't hiring anymore. 9/11 killed a lot of air service.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1133 times:
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 3): Thank you, though, my post said nothing of AA. Really I could care less about AA.
Care for them or careless about them - AA is a barometer for success; very little takes place in the Metroplex without AA. If FTW was a worth wild venture, AA would have been all over it. They carefully watched the Mesa operations and stated it was could not sustain economic viability with their predictions of the Mesa pulldown being accurate inside a month.
BTW, those were Pre-9/11 cost. Different World Today.
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 3): FTW had service from Mesa within a decade or so, so it is not like a "green alien" concept to have some service there.
I appreciate the fact the idea is not front line at CO or WN or some other regional player but I am wondering if anyone in the area around FTW has heard even rumours of such service since the Mesa pullout?
Jonathan Ornstein has said many times FTW was not profitable. YV has some of the lowest operating cost (minus fuel). If they could not make it work, I would not be hopeful anyone else could; especially, in this economy.
Bottom line, stick to the corporate travel to FTW. Unfortauntely, there appears to be no end insight to resolving the traffic issues between DFW - FTW.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11715 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1024 times:
A few years ago, as some already said, Masa had CRJ-70 service FTW-IAH. It never made any money, partly due to not much interest in making domestic service connections only in IAH. Now if someone would offer flights to MDW/ORD, IAH, AUS, SAT, LGA/JFK, OAK/SFO, BOS/MHT, SEA, ATL, STL, MIA area, and maybe the LAX area, they might make something of it. It could be an LCC, like WN or Air Tran. But only one desitination didn't work very well.
Another option, since FTW only has a runway about 7200' long, would be AFW, which has a FedEx base, and AA maintenance.
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 972 times:
Ah that would be Mesa (Air Shuttle), and the CRJ7 was only a dot on the RADAR screen back when they tried the FTW-IAH route. The CRJ1 or at the most CRJ2 was more likely the aircraft back then.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
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