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Will United Collapse?  
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 20933 times:

United Airlines has lost billions of dollars in the past two years; the company seems to hemorrhaging cash. Is it possible that United may collapse in the next few months, or should we just expect a Chapter 11 filing?


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 20945 times:

Collapse - maybe not. Survive on the road it's on now - maybe not. I will let others speculate as to what is COming


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 20764 times:

If you read the mainstream media "analysis" , you might get the impression that United has been holding on by it's fingernails since the late 1990's. However, when you look at the financials and unbiased, thoughtful analysis, you will see that UAL is in no worse straits than any other USA - based legacy carrier. So the short answer to your question: will United implode within the next few months a la ATA,Aloha or Eastern?....NO. Now....what will United look like 24 months from now is open to wider speculation. In all fairness....the same speculation can be said about American, USAirways and even the New Delta.

User currently offlineEXMEMWIDGET From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20525 times:

How many trips to BK has United had in the past years?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30611 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20457 times:
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Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 3):
How many trips to BK has United had in the past years?

UA has filed for bankruptcy once.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20409 times:

An Article in the UK's Guardian newspaper on 11th March stated that UA was at serious risk of going bust along with US and B6.

User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20319 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
An Article in the UK's Guardian newspaper on 11th March stated that UA was at serious risk of going bust along with US and B6

Along with at least 50 other airlines, worldwide



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30611 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20311 times:
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Personally I don't CO alone as being large enough to serve as STAR's only United States carrier, especially since their service to Asia is minimal in comparison to UA. I still think the future is a merger of UA and CO because I don't see CO being in a financial position to purchase UA's Asian network which is the minimum they need to be a serious United States partner for STAR.

UA's problem is how to make itself palatable enough for CO without making it so unpalatable with it's own passengers that they will have moved on to AA by the time the merger can happen. Hopefully by forging closer relationships and leveraging their particular strengths to rationalize their schedules and cities they serve, the two can help strengthen each other financially and lay the foundation for an eventual successful merger.

B6 is sniffing about joining an alliance, but if they do join STAR (because of their partnership with LH) that means four large hubs within a couple hundred kilometers of each other (IAD, PHL, EWR and JFK) and two just across a river from each other (EWR and JFK).


User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20289 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
An Article in the UK's Guardian newspaper on 11th March stated that UA was at serious risk of going bust along with US and B6.

The Guardian needs to check its facts none of those airlines are considered by the US annalist community to be at risk of going bust.

Just to echo what ItalianFlyer is saying UA is not any worse off then US, DL, CO or any of the rest of the US legacy airlines. They have actually made some remarkable positive changes in the the past 6 months or so and seem to be starting to stabilize. Actually if you take a look at what the financial annalists for the investor community are saying UA is expected to post an operational profit for the full year.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20144 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
UA's problem is how to make itself palatable enough for CO without making it so unpalatable with it's own passengers that they will have moved on to AA by the time the merger can happen.

Considering that CO consistently ranks higher in customer satisfaction than UA does, it's more of a case of UA making itself palatable to CO's customers for the alliance and possible eventual merger to work, isn't it?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30611 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20032 times:
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Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 11):
Considering that CO consistently ranks higher in customer satisfaction than UA does, it's more of a case of UA making itself palatable to CO's customers for the alliance and possible eventual merger to work, isn't it?

I have always operated under the assumption (with the risks assumptions raise) that CO would drive the deal, not UA.


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2273 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19953 times:

I would expect some kind of CO/UA merger to take place before UA would totally go down the tubes. I don't think the gov't would let UA fail, think of the jobs that would be lost. They keep throwing money at the automakers, why not the airlines too?

The route structure of UA/CO would be awesome, hubs at EWR, IAD, IAH, ORD, DEN, SFO, LAX. IAH would really give the airline a foothold in the south and Latin America that they are missing. EWR would cement them as a power player on the eastern seaboard. CLE could be retained as a reliever to ORD and EWR. Would definitely give the new Delta some competition.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19913 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 1):
Collapse - maybe not. Survive on the road it's on now - maybe not. I will let others speculate as to what is COming

Cute play on words there. I like it. I don't think that is COming for at least a couple of years, if ever.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Personally I don't CO alone as being large enough to serve as STAR's only United States carrier,

As it is presently constructed, that is up for debate, but, as you say later in your post, if they get a hold of UA's Asian network, and possibly UA's west-coast routes, then CO is perfectly suited to be the U.S. Flagship for Star.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19908 times:

UA won't "collapse" in the sense of just stop flying. There are legal processes it could use to try to stay alive while restructuring and it is fairly rare that a company - esp. airlines - move from a normal operation to suspending operations overnight.

The assumption that CO would drive the deal is preciseliy why it hasn't happened yet. UA mgmt and their board is not ready to completely turn over their operation to CO people. Doing so might be the best thing but UA mgmt has not yet concluded there is nothing more they can do.

It is also not likely that CO would swallow UA without having UA go into BK first so some of UA's debts can be disposed of.

If UA does file for BK, it is possible that other parties might want to invest in them - outside of their "friends" and might make a more compelling case to do so; if there is greater financial benefit by selling to someone other than "friends" then UA has to consider those options. Even among "friends", ownership might be split between CO and LH or other Star carriers. UA is a big fish for CO to digest.

Watch the financial reports over the next 6 months and you'll get a more clear picture of where the entire industry is going. It might be premature to try to bury anyone just yet.


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19436 times:



Quoting CXA330300 (Thread starter):
United Airlines has lost billions of dollars in the past two years; the company seems to hemorrhaging cash. Is it possible that United may collapse in the next few months, or should we just expect a Chapter 11 filing?

Will American, Airtran, B6, USAir, Delta, etc collapse? Seems you are off on a tangent with the UA target. If you look at the UA number versus the headlines you will see much of the "loss" was non-cash loss.

Airlines are cash flow machines. The biggest issue for UA and the others is to keep the cash flows coming.


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19301 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 16):
AirTran

You might want to read the news a bit before adding AirTran to your list of airlines facing imminent collapse... unless that's not how you meant that.



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 946 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18921 times:

I think United will collapse as long as Mr. Tilton remains its CEO. He is only interested in his self and how to make the most money for himself. He thinks that this can be accomplished by merging with someone else. We all know how the mergers within airliners look like. Meantime, United is slipping in every possible client satisfaction survey and the employees morale is probably at a very low right now.
I am not sure how they can make money as their fares are always the highest (my trip last week to DCA I paid $205 with AA and United was $379) and planes fly half empty - who wants to pay additional $100 for economy plus on an 1.5 hr flight on top a steep fare they paid already? Certainly, not me. When you consider that on top of that you get old and outdated planes, no service of any sort - suddenly southwest seems to be a premium service.


User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18708 times:

Any airline with a weak/questionable business model that also has massive amounts of debt maturing or in need of refinancing over the next 12-36 months has a target on them. You can run through the financial statements and make your own list of who these airlines are. they are fairly easy to spot if you can read the numbers.

The ones who will survive will be those airlines that can secure financing to restructure their debt, either inside or outside of Chapter 11. A handful more may secure funds by selling a portion of themselves to an alliance partner.

One thing is certain. This industry is evolving rapidly now as a result of the credit crisis and global economic downturn. Stronger carriers are already becoming increasingly cutthroat, and pressure is being applied on weaker competitors like never before.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18471 times:



Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 13):
I would expect some kind of CO/UA merger to take place before UA would totally go down the tubes. I don't think the gov't would let UA fail, think of the jobs that would be lost. They keep throwing money at the automakers, why not the airlines too?

That's what Pan Am, Eastern and Braniff employees said too. Don't expect the government to do anything to stop an ailing airline from killing itself. I do however, expect a CO/UA merger within the next few years. UA really doesn't have much of a choice. Their current senior management is so incompetant, I'd rather have US Airways executives running UA.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18171 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Personally I don't CO alone as being large enough to serve as STAR's only United States carrier

What happened to US ???


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18044 times:



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 17):
You might want to read the news a bit before adding AirTran to your list of airlines facing imminent collapse... unless that's not how you meant that.

You might want to do the same.

The following is from US News and World Reports:
"Companies exposed to consumer spending have it toughest. The industries most represented on the list are media, automotive, retail and manufacturing. Companies in the most acute danger are those with reduced cash flow and a high debt load. A lot of big, well-known companies are in danger. On the list: Advanced Micro Devices; AirTran; AMR (parent of American Airlines); Chrysler; Duane Reade; Eastman-Kodak; Ford; General Motors; JetBlue; Krispy Kreme; Palm; R.H. Donnelly; Reader's Digest Association; Rite-Aid; UAL (parent of United Airlines); Unisys; and US Airways. "

Your apology is accepted!


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4002 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17967 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 6):
Along with at least 50 other airlines, worldwide

This is an extremely simplified reasoning. Think of it as 50 people running from a bear. They are all at risk, like you said. But if anybody gets chewed up, it is going to be some of the slowest in the pack. The question being asked is whether United is like one of them.


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17699 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 2):
If you read the mainstream media "analysis" , you might get the impression that United has been holding on by it's fingernails since the late 1990's. However, when you look at the financials and unbiased, thoughtful analysis, you will see that UAL is in no worse straits than any other USA - based legacy carrier. So the short answer to your question: will United implode within the next few months a la ATA,Aloha or Eastern?....NO. Now....what will United look like 24 months from now is open to wider speculation. In all fairness....the same speculation can be said about American, USAirways and even the New Delta.



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 16):
If you look at the UA number versus the headlines you will see much of the "loss" was non-cash loss.

Of course all airlines are at risk, but theres a difference here: Delta and American, both larger airlines than United, have total losses that are still less than United's operating loss alone. While yes, American's market capitalization has tanked, American is still losing less in proportion to its revenue than United.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Personally I don't CO alone as being large enough to serve as STAR's only United States carrier, especially since their service to Asia is minimal in comparison to UA. I still think the future is a merger of UA and CO because I don't see CO being in a financial position to purchase UA's Asian network which is the minimum they need to be a serious United States partner for STAR.

US has a tiny international network and they're still in Star.

UA's Asia network is balanced out by Continental's fairly large European and Latin American networks. In reality, how many Asian destinations does CO need to serve? NRT, PEK, and PVG all connect to Star hubs, and HKG can be propelled by sheer demand alone-only ICN seems to be missing. CO's great asset for Star is that it gives the alliance a great foothold in the world's largest market, NYC.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineKlkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17642 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15):
The assumption that CO would drive the deal is preciseliy why it hasn't happened yet. UA mgmt and their board is not ready to completely turn over their operation to CO people.

I'm not so sure I would agree with that. More likely CO was not yet ready to completely take over the UA mess. CO has relatively happy customers, employees and stock holders. United's situation is just the opposite and it will be quite an endeavor to to straighten out that mess. There is plenty of evidence that UA is aggressively shrinking in size to make themselves more palatable to CO's management.


User currently offlineRiddlePilot215 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17821 times:
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I thought that CO has already made this clear that they are NOT interested in merging with United, just simply due to the fact that UA's books are far too concerning in terms of overall operational and fiscal health. Considering CO weathered the post-9/11 storm much better than airlines of similar or greater size, I'd think that the consensus would be to keep things "as-is" as far as CO is concerned. CO stands much better chances strengthening their partnership with UA in the long run, much more so than merging with a 2nd year business student's business model gone wrong.


God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
25 Socalfive : It'll never happen, CO would be much better off simply picking up assets after a shutdown which is bound to happen with UA due to the horrid service
26 LAXDESI : UA had about $2 billion in unrestricted cash(net of fuel hedge collateral) at the end of 2008 and It lost about $1.6 billion in cash during 2008. I ex
27 CAL764 : Done, and Done...
28 LAXDESI : If UA survives 2009, I expect CO to buy UA in an all stock deal. If any cash is needed for integration, CO could look to raise it from LH by giving it
29 DLflynhayn : [quote=AndrewUber,reply=17] You might want to read the news a bit before adding AirTran to your list of airlines facing imminent collapse... unless th
30 Iowaman : After flying UA on four flights in the past week, I am less than impressed. My flights were over $400, and the service was completely laughable. I've
31 Ual777 : United's on-time performance for January was number 1 I believe. They have also started a new cleaning initiative that is exceeding goals so far. Wel
32 Iowaman : If he flew on an old 733 then I could see how, as my friend traveling with me refered to them as a mexican bus from the 80's.
33 Falcon84 : UA WAS ready to turn it over to CO last year. It was CO management that nixed a merger, as they didn't like the financials UA showed them. Right now,
34 Ual777 : Well they are all leaving the fleet so it shouldn't matter in another couple of months.
35 EDICHC : Missing there is SIN arguably the most significant *A hub in SE Asia. Though of course the US market from SIN is well served by SQ.
36 Mowtoib : Isn't Moody's a part of that community?... )))
37 JCS17 : Why in God's name would Continental want to merge with United? The relationship between management and nearly every UA union is toxic. The labor relat
38 AndrewUber : If US News was always correct in their assumptions about this industry, UA would have been gone two years ago. If you want to put all of your confide
39 Wedgetail737 : Is it possible that UA may eventually have to sell of portions of their route systems...kind of what happened to Pan Am? This probably wouldn't happen
40 United1 : Thats just it UAs position is not dire at all, they are just as stable as any of their legacy counterparts. What I find fascinating about this thread
41 OzarkD9S : I see this scenario more likely than an outright CO/UA merger. Anybody remember the deal UA and AA proposed to divvy up some of US in 2001? Spin off
42 Isitsafenow : A few short days ago, a lead economist listed a few dozen American companies that is in danger of going bankrupt this year. They added that bankruptc
43 Viscount724 : SIN is poorly-located for an Asian hub for traffic from North America. It's too far south to be a logical connecting point except to a few secondary
44 Live2fly83 : B6?? No, their financials through this entire economic mess are impressive relative to others didnt their credit rating just get bumped up? I think t
45 Falcon84 : If UA doesn't break up piecemeal, then possibly taking the whole thing, and then stripping it of what is wanted/needed is the only way to go for CO t
46 DLflynhayn : Since your setting us straight PROVE IT!
47 Slcdeltarumd11 : Will United scale back DEN?
48 United1 : Prove what...that UA won't collapse tomorrow? Can you tell us with absolute certainty that DL or CO or AA won't shut down tomorrow of course you can'
49 Aviateur : That's primarily because the price of fuel is about a third what it was last summer. Imagine for a moment the current downturn *and* $200-a-barrel oi
50 300CAP : Sounds like a vendetta to me! Actually, the people of UA are very good people, and they continue to be. The UA management has made life almost unbear
51 VC10er : The truth is nobody knows. I'm old enough to recall how bad CO was and now it's everyone's favorite US carrier. If Cher can win an Oscar then UA can b
52 WorldTraveler : While true, that says nothing about CO's ability to FINANCIALLY digest a merger or acquisition. Despite what people want to believe, asset sales are
53 Etops1 : do not count out a usairways united merger yet.
54 Allstarflyer : I have friends at UA, and for their sake, I hope it doesn't die. For CO's sake, if UA does bite the dust, I'd hope they could get the routes in a fir
55 JEdward : I'm not quite sure I see the benefit of such a merger -- could you please spell it out for me?
56 LMP737 : I certainly hope not. Having worked with individuals who were employed at airlines like Pan Am, Eastern, Midway etc I have a bit of an idea how peopl
57 CYXUK : good analysis Unlikely, although they are have no transatlantic/transpacific flights, DEN is an integral part of the UA network within the States. On
58 MasseyBrown : Denver is a logically brilliant but financially disastrous hub for UA for the foreseeable future. They are the high cost producer. They should cut th
59 Slcdeltarumd11 : between ORD, LAX, and SFO can't united handle the west with a den REDUCTION? Don't pull out of DEN just reduce frequencies. Not even a focus city stil
60 Panova98 : No insider here, nor someone with a big ax to grind with UA, but they sure seem to have come up with some products that just didn't pan out: --Shuttle
61 ThirtyEcho : Meanwhile, at WN: "If all of ya'll will just sit down, we'll get this puppy to Dallas." As Southwest has been doing for almost 40 years, profitably.
62 Bmacleod : UA is no more likely to collapse than any other US legacy carrier or most global carriers for that matter. In a recession as bad as the current one, e
63 300CAP : That would be NO!!!!!!
64 United1 : I'm curious why you think this idea didn't pan out considering that I get their E-Fare E-Mail once a week and have even managed to use a few of their
65 DLflynhayn : We were talking about Airtran HELLO!
66 United1 : Excuse me? Its not at all clear from your post on what you were referring to much less UA or FL...
67 Panova98 : Yes, I too have used an E-Fare once a Blue Moon. Wouldn't say they are "el-cheapo." But, E-Fares, and the MP program offer such great opportunities t
68 Slimshady : Couldnt agree more. UA's culture is abyssmal. CO's is fantastic. No way in heck would the two cultures blend. I worked at both airlines and I think U
69 United1 : They are starting to allow RCC members to access certain (LAS is the first) CO clubs and vis-a-versa no matter whether you’re traveling on UA or CO
70 Skytony : Yeah thanks a whole lot, what insensitive people are on this forum. There are plenty of hard working United employees that have put up with so much c
71 WROORD : As I mentioned before UA does not need a merger, but rather a new management. There was even a special website to sign a petition for Mr. Tilton to re
72 SlimShady : Your welcome. BTW, you are the FIRST ua employee I have personally heard who attributes success coming from Customers. In my years at SFO and traveli
73 HNL-Jack : Fortunate for CO in the 80's and early 90's, when they were the worlds worst airline, that you weren't around. Their people were good people, but had
74 MCIGuy : I certainly hope not, I love UA. I don't want to see any more American heavies go under, I'm still hurting from TWA. Besides, UA flies the heaviest (p
75 VC10er : i am global services and live in NYC. i go out of my way to fly UA because while it is not Singapore by any stretch, it's people like you that keep m
76 STT757 : It was two bankruptcies, not three. And I've been flying CO since '89 and never had issues with dirty planes or bad service, I've always thought CO h
77 Atomsareenough : I'm sure nobody wishes specifically that a large group of strangers would lose their jobs... but in terms of trying to assess the prospects of the ind
78 T5towbar : I think that United can recover from all of this with new management. Get rid of Tilton and his crew, and start fresh. Bring the morale of the workers
79 IRelayer : I think the short answer to this question lies in this (IMHO) inevitable future scenario: One, maybe two major US airlines have to go away. Whether th
80 LAXDESI : On the contrary, NW/Delta is projecting savings of $500 million partly from the merger due to economies of scale and scope.
81 Atomsareenough : That doesn't mean they won't trip and fall eventually. You can say they've improved operationally lately and that should show up in the bottom line..
82 REALDEAL : Surely one of the big legacies in U.S. will go under soon or into chapter 11. If one goes into chapter 11, does that mean it's likely they won't come
83 United1 : None of the US legacies are expected to file for chapter 11 or shut down.
84 Coronado : United, they may be the be Pan Am of 2009-1'0, with a relatively slow lingering, painful to watch, march toward extinction. I fondly remember the 70's
85 REALDEAL : Says who ? We think it's highly likely, esp. as U.S. economy gets worse later this year, when effects of any stimulus package have worn off.
86 United1 : The general consensus among US airline industry analysts is that none of the legacies are in danger of collapse. Right now the US airline industry is
87 IRelayer : Ok that sounds good on paper but what I was getting at was the fact that after a long and complex merger process, and being that they are now the lar
88 LAXDESI : They are expecting savings of $500 million in 2009, and about $2 billion a year when complete integration is achieved in the long run.
89 Brilondon : The DL/NW almalgamation is oneof the better ones as they don't have a lot of route commonality, because of this the large variety of aircraft they ha
90 WorldTraveler : And that is also part of the reason DL did not face the level of government scrutiny that others did. DL/NW had the least amount of network overlap o
91 Ordpark : Actually, the 3rd was very close, but Bethune's friends from Boeing came through with loans to avoid it. The fact still remains that UA will finish t
92 FlyDeltaJets : Considering the state of the US economy are US analyst really any more reliable.
93 SlimShady : When I left UA last summer, they were saying they had $2 Billion in cash to operate. What amazes me is they lost over $5 BILLION Dollars last year. W
94 Post contains links United1 : Around 80% of that number is due to non-cash accounting charges that UA had to take (Goodwill, Assets Write Downs, Non-Cash Fuel Hedging Charges, ect
95 MasseyBrown : That isn't a huge cushion of cash for an airline as big as UA. At the JP Morgan Conf. the CFO stressed that UA has very few cash outlays budgeted for
96 Mcdu : What do you have to back up that assertion? Some examples of why you make that statement would be appreciated. Oh the 5 Billion loss...... Please rea
97 LAXDESI : UAL Says Quarterly Unit Revenue May Fall Up to 13.3%. My back of envelope calculations suggest a cash loss of about $200 million for 2009 Q1($1.5 per
98 United1 : That's assuming that cash burn is steady across every quarter..... it's not. On last years "will UA make it thread" it was pointed out that UAs reven
99 WorldTraveler : And they must keep those assets available in the event they need debtor in possession financing in a BK case. ... which is on the upper end of what o
100 United1 : Notice I said this year, despite the fact that this year and next UA will be renegotiating its union contracts none of the new ones will take effect
101 LAXDESI : You are correct that non fuel costs do not fluctuate much across quarters, and Q1 is the worst revenue quarter for UA. As for generating positive cas
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