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El Al Reports Strong Demand For New Brazil Flights  
User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5128 times:

El Al is reporting strong bookings for the new 3 x weekly flights to Sao Paulo, Brazil. Link below. May start Tokyo flight in 2010.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

El Al strong demand for GRU was reported before:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4310671

At the time reservation showed 5,000 tickets and according to your link now El Al already has 25,000 reservations! El Al flight is loaded less than 2 months in the reservation system and it seems the flight will be a complete success.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4906 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
now El Al already has 25,000 reservations

Be a more careful reader. They don't have 25,000 reservations. They anticipate 25,000 passengers until the end of the year, which would mean that they expect the loads to reach 85%.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4803 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
Be a more careful reader. They don't have 25,000 reservations. They anticipate 25,000 passengers until the end of the year, which would mean that they expect the loads to reach 85%.

Indeed, they actually had 5,000 reservations made until late last month, or in less than one month the flight went online.

http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...l_reader_noticia.asp?cod_not=45085

Rgs,


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

It will be interesting to find out what percentage of these flights are O&D passengers and what percentage are connecting to other South American destinations.

On a related note, I read an article on a Spanish language site, Radiolev.com, that explains why El Al ruled out launching a route to EZE at this time. The article quotes El Al's CEO as saying that the decision not to fly to EZE is based on historic and economic reasons. According to the article, the CEO also said that LY does not believe that the sale of tickets would be sufficient to justify TLV-EZE flights. Further down, the article quotes El Al's CEO as saying that Buenos Aires is an important destination for LY, but at the moment, such flights have not been planned because Boeing does not have equipment that would enable nonstop flights between from TLV to EZE and the airline does not have the respective authorizations that are necessary to fly this route.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4618 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 4):
such flights have not been planned because Boeing does not have equipment that would enable nonstop flights between from TLV to EZE

B772LR  banghead 


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4613 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 4):
It will be interesting to find out what percentage of these flights are O&D passengers and what percentage are connecting to other South American destinations.

The majority will be O&D. Brazil is one of Israel major trading partners, and the number one trading partner in Latin America: USD 1 billion in trade last year. El Al focus is on business and this explains why the aircraft is the 3-class B772. GRU also offers very good connections to domestic network in Brazil, EZE, LIM, SCL, MVD.

Rgs,


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

In the region of 11k bookings by today

User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4562 times:



Quoting LXA340 (Reply 5):
B772LR

Could the 772LR fly TLV-EZE nonstop in both directions with the detours around Arab countries in North Africa that won't allow El Al to overfly their territories? An interactive map on El Al's website shows the route to GRU as passing over southern Spain and Portugal before heading out towards the South Atlantic. I assume that a nonstop flight to EZE would follow the same flight path.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4559 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 7):
In the region of 11k bookings by today

Is that oneway or roundtrip?


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4510 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 7):
In the region of 11k bookings by today

11K bookings in about 45 days. El Al got a really good start. The flight seems very competitive: 3-class configuration, red-eye and nonstop, good equipment with B772, all of which will helpto keep yields high. El Al also did a good preparatory ground work, with presentations and road shows in many locations including FITUR in Madrid.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4463 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
with presentations and road shows in many locations including FITUR in Madrid

Is the flight stopping in MAD?


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5303 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4455 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 11):
Is the flight stopping in MAD?

TLV-GRU will be flown nonstop.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4405 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
11K bookings in about 45 days. El Al got a really good start. The flight seems very competitive:

The Jerusalem Post article (the link is above) indicates that El Al hopes to duplicate its success on the BKK route. According to the article, relatively few people flew between Thailand and Israel before LY initiated nonstop TLV-BKK flights. Now, more than 200,000 people fly the BKK route annually. Time will tell if nonstop TLV-GRU flights will greatly increase the number of travelers between Israel, Brazil, and neighboring countries in South America.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5591 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4356 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 8):
Could the 772LR fly TLV-EZE nonstop in both directions with the detours around Arab countries in North Africa that won't allow El Al to overfly their territories?

Easily. TLV-LIS-EZE, a reasonable proxy for such a route, is 7363 nm. That would be a big challenge for LY's 77Es but a cakewalk for the 77L.

The more salient point is that there wouldn't likely be enough demand for any individual South American destination except GRU.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5591 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4327 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 14):
TLV-LIS-EZE, a reasonable proxy for such a route, is 7363 nm.

Better yet, TLV-PMO-GIB-TFN-EZE, at 7223 nm, versus TLV-EZE GC, at 6608 nm:



User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4250 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 7):
In the region of 11k bookings by today

Is that oneway or roundtrip?

11k legs, oneway.

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 14):
That would be a big challenge for LY's 77Es but a cakewalk for the 77L.

TLV-EZE according to LY's ground rules is 7521 nm. The 77L can perform this easily. The 77E will meet a of course payload restriction allowing ~75% load factor (and no cargo). Flight time for such a flight is approx. 16:40 hours resulting in a 17:10 block time!
EZE-TLV is a more simple task.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4235 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
The Jerusalem Post article (the link is above) indicates that El Al hopes to duplicate its success on the BKK route. According to the article, relatively few people flew between Thailand and Israel before LY initiated nonstop TLV-BKK flights. Now, more than 200,000 people fly the BKK route annually. Time will tell if nonstop TLV-GRU flights will greatly increase the number of travelers between Israel, Brazil, and neighboring countries in South America.

If you consider the fact of the huge Jewish communities in Brazil and Argentina, together with the fact that Brazil is one of Israel's major trading partners, plus the fact that Israel is a popular holiday destination for the many evangelical groups in Brazil, the flight in my view will far exceed the performance of BKK, especially because GRU will also manage to extract some high-yielding pax on business.

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 14):
The more salient point is that there wouldn't likely be enough demand for any individual South American destination except GRU.

Agreed. But GRU can pull together some connections intra-Brazil and to EZE, LIM, MVD, SCL which will help to boost loads.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4167 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 16):
11k legs, oneway.

Everything is clear now. There are no 6000 new reservations, but only 500 since the CEO mentioned the figures.


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4163 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
Everything is clear now. There are no 6000 new reservations, but only 500 since the CEO mentioned the figures.

No, the number stood 3 weeks ago on 5500 legs and at the moment passed 11500.
The CEO refered to legs


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4151 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 19):
No, the number stood 3 weeks ago on 5500 legs and at the moment passed 11500.
The CEO refered to legs

OK, so we all got fooled by the CEO... I was impressed with 5000 roundtrip reservations two weeks ago, but 2500 is another story.


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2907 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4145 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 15):
Better yet, TLV-PMO-GIB-TFN-EZE, at 7223 nm, versus TLV-EZE GC, at 6608 nm:

Can't they fly over Algeria? Somewhere earlier on a list of countries was given that they can't fly over, it didn't mention Algeria. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised to see Algeria on the list too. If they have fly via GIB then the southern routing (Ethiopia) may almost be the same distance.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4132 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 19):
No, the number stood 3 weeks ago on 5500 legs and at the moment passed 11500.
The CEO refered to legs

During 3 weeks of reservations we got 5,500 legs or 2,750 roundtrips which makes an average of 183 round-trips reservations per working day which in my view is an excellent achievement. 11,500 legs or 5,750 round-trips in 10 weeks the flight went online which means about 115 ruond-trips reservations per working day.

El Al is doing great ground-work so far and the route looks very promissing.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 21):
Can't they fly over Algeria? Somewhere earlier on a list of countries was given that they can't fly over, it didn't mention Algeria. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised to see Algeria on the list too. If they have fly via GIB then the southern routing (Ethiopia) may almost be the same distance.

This is what I said before, that Ethiopia could be another alternative to route the flight.

Rgs,


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4018 times:



Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 21):
Can't they fly over Algeria?

No, plus that routing is over Lybia not Algeria, that is also a no.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4003 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 23):
No, plus that routing is over Lybia not Algeria, that is also a no.

But as mentioned above, El Al could route the flight via Ethiopia. I actually would even think that El Al could operate TLV-NBO-GRU or TLV-ADD-GRU, but there is no doubt El Al made the right choice in flying GRU nonstop, dedicated, with high-yielding configuration (3-class) and top equipment (B772). I must say El Al made a very professional start in GRU.

Rgs,


25 IAD380 : This routing would also involve a detour to avoid overflying the Sudan.
26 EZEIZA : TLV-GRU-EZE? would they be able to do that? IMHO the Argentina - Israel connection is something that is much needed and not developed, either by ElAl
27 SeaBosDca : So far, any route I've been able to find that avoids Egypt and Sudan is longer than the Mediterranean route.
28 Hardiwv : You are correct, the route as planned now (via GIB) is the best alternative. El Al flight which will arrive GRU early in morning and depart in evenin
29 IAD380 : As mentioned earlier, El Al's CEO is quoted in the press as saying that the airline does not believe that the sale of tickets would be sufficient to
30 EXAAUADL : would altitude be a problem?
31 Semsem : From EZE better to connect in Rome or Madrid. If you miss the flight usually you can find a back up flight. To TLV if you miss the flight which is 3 x
32 EZEIZA : What I've seen is that most people do that, mainly through Rome., But this will open another interesting option
33 LipeGIG : That's a constant mistake. If the only given flight from a destination in other continent goes to EZE, probably the flight will perform very well. If
34 Hardiwv : I agree with you and we know that the majority of the business O&D will be TLV-GRU. At the end it also helps the fact that GRU has such a comprehensi
35 IAD380 : Although I have a lot of respect for your analysis and opinions, I do not agree with you in this case. Starting flights from TLV to any destination i
36 LipeGIG : Thanks for the warm remark. Please note that when we talk about the demand to deal with a new flight, is not a matter of saying that destination A or
37 LY777 : I think they will start flying to Tokyo when they start receiving the 4 new 777s, ie in 2012 (does someone know BTW if they will be 77E or 77Ws?)
38 IAD380 : El Al is starting its first scheduled flights in its 60 year history to South America. It had to choose a gateway that offers the easiest and best co
39 Hardiwv : And here we are discussing the same issue all airlines already know... The main reason was because GRU attracts the highest yields and the majority o
40 LipeGIG : Agree, i'm not saying the choice is not the best, please just understand that i was saying that could be one of the others.
41 IAD380 : I doubt that El Al will start flying to Tokyo next year. Beyond the fact that LY hasn't yet received a permit to fly into the crowded NRT airport, it
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