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AA Looks To Grow In Brazil (article)  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Article (in Portuguese) about American Airlines' plans for Brazil in 2009 and beyond. Unfortunately, no hints at what cities AA is looking to add.

Highlights:
*AA will be growing in Brazil by 10% in 2009.
*The Recife/Salvador route is now averaging 70% loads.
*AA's temporary reduction of REC/SSA service for two months in the spring was always planned, even before the route launched.
*They are looking at new markets in the Northeast.
*They will step up marketing efforts in the Northeast, especially with tourist agencies. Fortaleza will be one of the focuses of the campaign, a hint that Fortaleza service is being planned.

http://www.diariodepernambuco.com.br/2009/03/12/economia10_0.asp


a.
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

Thanks for the interesting article. What could be AA next destinations in North/Northeast? I think BSB could come next.

This week the Secretaries of Tourism of the states of Federal District (BSB), Amazonas (MAO), Ceara (FOR) and Pernambuco (REC) will meet in ATL with DL to decide on co-operation and measures to boost demand for these routes from ATL hub.

Rgs,


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

Brazil is the 2nd largest economy in the Americas and continues to perform relatively well despite the economic difficulties in the world.

The air transport market between the US and Brazil has been constrained for years due to Brazil's protection of its airlines. Recent bilateral improvements show that they realize there is potential to grow their travel market by essentially opening up all of the market except for SAO.

Hopefully opening the NE markets to nonstop service by AA and DL will show there is a significant market that can be developed - but which is constrained because of the visa requirement. The sooner the Brazilian government drops or amends it, the faster the markets will grow. There is no reason why Brazil can't tap into the beach market since Brazil has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world.

Once the 2009 US-Brazil awards are decided, it is likely that there will be enough frequencies for just about any US airline that wants them - outside of GRU. The markets outside of GIG and GRU are still small and developmental - not many carriers can make them work and they probably can't add daily service right out of the chute. By the end of 2009, there is a good chance that every US airline that can fly nonstop to GIG will have a nonstop GIG route. AA and DL will have the upper hand in developing new markets outside of GIG and GRU but that doesn't mean they are the only ones that will be interested.

AA s well positioned to continue to expand its Brazil network. There are development costs but those costs will shrink as the economic difficulties shrink and more people start travelling.

There is more than enough opportunity for US carriers to expand in Brazil and it is likely that AA will continue to expand at a rate proportional to its current US-Brazil market share .


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5544 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):

We probably will see AA more aggressive in 2010. The current 14 frequencies for 2009 DOT is about to decide showed AA very shy and they probably will come stronger next year to increase their chances to get frequencies. I can see AA looking for a daily JFK-GIG and also to introduce 1 or 2 new routes to BSB and FOR. CNF increase is another possible request.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAlianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5031 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Article (in Portuguese) about American Airlines' plans for Brazil in 2009 and beyond.

Thank you for posting the article. It's always good to see competition expanding, and into the northeast, especially during these times.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
This week the Secretaries of Tourism of the states of Federal District (BSB), Amazonas (MAO), Ceara (FOR) and Pernambuco (REC) will meet in ATL with DL to decide on co-operation and measures to boost demand for these routes from ATL hub.

It's interesting to see that they did this, to travel to meet with DL. As WorldTravler pointed out, the issue of having to apply for a visa is still going to hinder the potential. Please let us know of the outcome and their plan, and/or link to the article. Thank you.


Regards,


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 4986 times:



Quoting Alianza (Reply 4):
It's interesting to see that they did this, to travel to meet with DL. As WorldTravler pointed out, the issue of having to apply for a visa is still going to hinder the potential. Please let us know of the outcome and their plan, and/or link to the article. Thank you.

http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...l_reader_noticia.asp?cod_not=45320

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4856 times:
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Quoting Alianza (Reply 4):
It's interesting to see that they did this, to travel to meet with DL. As WorldTravler pointed out, the issue of having to apply for a visa is still going to hinder the potential. Please let us know of the outcome and their plan, and/or link to the article. Thank you.

One thing i can say is that Brazil tried to remove the fee for the Visa but the US Government do not accept it.
The meeting helps, the fact that Brazil offers consulates in several city's (New York, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston) while US for example only offers Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo and Recife, also helps to cover mostly of US areas. There are plans to re-open Orlando as well as create a consulate in Seatle.
A travel agent can even apply for the visa of an american at any Brazilian Consulate and takes only one day to be ready.

But i agree with WT, some places like MAO, SSA and FOR have trouble to deal with it's own demand due to the fact that they need first to go to the consulate in person to get the visa !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAlianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4831 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
A travel agent can even apply for the visa of an american at any Brazilian Consulate and takes only one day to be ready.

Hey Lipe, that's encouraging! At least it makes it more convenient, and possible to continue with planning the trip, rather than waiting long for a reply. But, I'm surprised that the Orlando consulate was closed. I understood there to be a large Brazilian population there.


Rgds,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4819 times:



Quoting Alianza (Reply 7):
I understood there to be a large Brazilian population there.

There isn't, but there are a lot of Brazilian tourists.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

While I understand the Brazilian government's policy of reciprocity for visa requirements because of the US requirement, it is Brazil tourism that is hurt by the visa requirement.

The simple reason the US has visa requirements for most Latin countries is to provide some control on the amount of illegal immigration and the types of people that might otherwise participate in it. Brazil and other Latin countries have no need to keep Americans out anymore than they want to protect themselves from the citizens of any other country.

I respect Brazil's right to enact its own laws but the sooner they realize that they can significantly grow their economy by relaxing the visa requirements, the better off they would be. Even if a special region is established for the NE Brazil beach destinations as a trial for a year or two in which visas would be waived, Brazil would quickly find out the potential revenue they could be capturing. I am certain that there would be far more flights to NE Brazil for many airlines if the visa requirement were relaxed.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4730 times:
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Quoting Alianza (Reply 7):
But, I'm surprised that the Orlando consulate was closed. I understood there to be a large Brazilian population there.

Yes, you're correct about this, but i believe the fact the Orlando stayed without flights to Brazil do not allow the city to develop a strong business base with Brazil. Since the consulate has been closed, Brazil opened others, inclusive in ATL in 2008. Lets see if Brazil invest in other consulates in the near future. I believe not only MCO, but SEA could be interesting.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
While I understand the Brazilian government's policy of reciprocity for visa requirements because of the US requirement, it is Brazil tourism that is hurt by the visa requirement

Both lost money and visitors WT. I understand Brazil can send about 300,000 more tourists every year to the United States as well as US can send about 500,000 more visitors to Brazil. Giving the current economic situation, both countries could be looking to easy such ridiculous policy.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline4EVERVARIG From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4585 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
A travel agent can even apply for the visa of an american at any Brazilian Consulate and takes only one day to be ready

I guess that the Brazilian Consulate in Los Angeles did not get the memo then... A few of my co workers had to travel to Sao Paulo last month and it took them 14 days to get the visa issued from the Consulate in Los Angeles.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4572 times:



Quoting 4EVERVARIG (Reply 11):
A few of my co workers had to travel to Sao Paulo last month and it took them 14 days to get the visa issued from the Consulate in Los Angeles.

Was it a work visa?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4567 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Both lost money and visitors WT. I understand Brazil can send about 300,000 more tourists every year to the United States as well as US can send about 500,000 more visitors to Brazil. Giving the current economic situation, both countries could be looking to easy such ridiculous policy.

That is true. I would say though that the economic impact US visitors can make on NE Brazil is much greater than Brazilians could in the US on a percentage basis. You need only look at someof the countries of the Caribbean to see that they recognize the importance of US tourism even if the US does not allow their citizens into the US without a visa.

Neither wins with these type of restrictive agreements. But the Brazilian government has made it clear that it only imposes visa requirements because the US requires them.

It is not unusual for countries with higher standards of living to impose visa requirements on visitors from countries with lower standards of living for the sole reason that people will go where the money is if there are no restrictions. But not all lower standard of living countries require visas of residents of higher standard of living countries. This is not a condescending statement. Just one based on clear reality.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4547 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
*They are looking at new markets in the Northeast.

I wonder if AA will ever fly to the Val de Cães International Airport, Belém, or even the Augusto Severo International Airport, Natal in the future out of MIA? Both are in the range of the B738.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4315 times:
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Quoting 4EVERVARIG (Reply 11):
I guess that the Brazilian Consulate in Los Angeles did not get the memo then... A few of my co workers had to travel to Sao Paulo last month and it took them 14 days to get the visa issued from the Consulate in Los Angeles

This is strange and different from the others. Expect that the fact that the former NY Consul, now LAX consul, could help to improve the standards and to reduce the waiting for a visa.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
I would say though that the economic impact US visitors can make on NE Brazil is much greater than Brazilians could in the US on a percentage basis

Agree 100% and also, Northeast can get investments (not so strong as a year ago) in hotels, time-sharing and others connected to tourism.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
Neither wins with these type of restrictive agreements. But the Brazilian government has made it clear that it only imposes visa requirements because the US requires them.

It's a policy. Not the best one, and need certain improvements!

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
It is not unusual for countries with higher standards of living to impose visa requirements on visitors from countries with lower standards of living for the sole reason that people will go where the money is if there are no restrictions. But not all lower standard of living countries require visas of residents of higher standard of living countries. This is not a condescending statement. Just one based on clear reality

Be in mind nowadays some countries think twice before imposing visa requirements to Brazil. Just need to see the example of Mexico where tourists from Brazil (far from being representative in terms of %) fell a lot after the visa has been imposed.
Brazil in 1990 is different from today's Brazil and people are looking more to return home (not only in the US but also in Japan and in less numbers, Europe) than to illegaly imigrate.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
I wonder if AA will ever fly to the Val de Cães International Airport, Belém, or even the Augusto Severo International Airport, Natal in the future out of MIA? Both are in the range of the B738

I doubt considering the number of frequencies available for 2010. FOR will be for sure before both BEL and NAT, as well as a possible flight to BSB and more flights to CNF.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4289 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Be in mind nowadays some countries think twice before imposing visa requirements to Brazil. Just need to see the example of Mexico where tourists from Brazil (far from being representative in terms of %) fell a lot after the visa has been imposed.

Lipe, number of tourists to Mexico actually increased. Of course, the visa (which is just ridiculous) remains a big problem, but Mexican Consulates in Brazil are doing a great job in facilitating visa applications, same-day delivery, online application, the sevrice is excellent (and very different to the slopy work the Brazilian consulates does in MEX).

One of the very few countries for which a visa continues a problem is Japan. My god, I had a hell of a problem to get the Japanse official visa this week in the Hague. They ask for tons of documents...it is just a shame, considering there are 2 million Japanese in Brazil. I almost cancelled my trip to NRT...give me a break, especially now that Japan is in recession!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
I doubt considering the number of frequencies available for 2010. FOR will be for sure before both BEL and NAT, as well as a possible flight to BSB and more flights to CNF.



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
I wonder if AA will ever fly to the Val de Cães International Airport, Belém, or even the Augusto Severo International Airport, Natal in the future out of MIA? Both are in the range of the B738.

As mentioned by Lipe, I think BSB would come first in the list, and dont forget the yields of destinations such as CWB and POA (in the past served by AA).

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4246 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
It is not unusual for countries with higher standards of living to impose visa requirements on visitors from countries with lower standards of living for the sole reason that people will go where the money is if there are no restrictions. But not all lower standard of living countries require visas of residents of higher standard of living countries. This is not a condescending statement. Just one based on clear reality.

Not unusual, but there are countries with higher standards than those of the US that don't require visa for Brazilian citizens. It's because of that discrepancy in treatment that Brazilian diplomacy keeps using the reciprocity policy. The US does after all put all the pressure to its borders instead of creating efficient internal mechanisms that would discourage illegal immigration.


User currently offline4EVERVARIG From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 4139 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
Was it a work visa?

Nope, just regular tourist visas, as they were just visiting our Brazilian offices and branches.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
This is strange and different from the others. Expect that the fact that the former NY Consul, now LAX consul, could help to improve the standards and to reduce the waiting for a visa.


I hope so. Their public office hours are horrible along with their service, attitude, timeliness among the other items in the agenda.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 4112 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
I doubt considering the number of frequencies available for 2010. FOR will be for sure before both BEL and NAT, as well as a possible flight to BSB and more flights to CNF.

Of course AA will go for the bigger cities first; however, considering future expansion beyond 2010, BEL and NAT could be potential additions to AA's Brazil network. I wonder if NK will apply for any frequencies for 2010.


User currently offline4EVERVARIG From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3958 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
Of course AA will go for the bigger cities first; however, considering future expansion beyond 2010, BEL and NAT could be potential additions to AA's Brazil network. I wonder if NK will apply for any frequencies for 2010.

In a way, you might have a partial answer to what AA would really do. I remember a while back, when JJ first was especulated to join * Alliance, that AA and G3/RG signed a treaty/memo of some sort of a partnership. Assuming AA starts service to larger northeastern cities in Brazil, AA might take advantage of their partnership with G3/RG to either disburse or provide feeder to AA's flights to those destinations which would not be a bad option in my opinion.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8396 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3931 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Giving the current economic situation, both countries could be looking to easy such ridiculous policy.

Visas are a ridiculous policy? They are designed to prevent human trafficking (voluntary or otherwise).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
Neither wins with these type of restrictive agreement

It's sort of a vacant argument, in that the USA must monitor who is coming from a country such as Brazil, with its massive underclass. Brazil has a population of some 200 million. It is hard to imagine that the USA could give open tourist access to the entire Brazilian population, 100+ million of whom are utterly without opportunity. The human traffic pressures are real.

Is this regime a major inconvenience to certain people, of course. Maybe there could be an expedited tourist system in both directions -- cheap or free for people who are known quantities.


User currently offline787KQ From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

Here we go again with the Brazil visa red herring.

Any American about to take a 10 hour flight to Brazil is unlikely to be hindered by filling out a basic visa form. And this is likely not a flight for a spur of the moment vacation. It's not that big a deal. And since those who have been before are the most likely future visitors, when you do get a visa, its usually for five years.

Much ado about nothing.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3874 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):

It is hard to imagine that the USA could give open tourist access to the entire Brazilian population, 100+ million of whom are utterly without opportunity.

Well, Europe does.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3866 times:



Quoting 787KQ (Reply 22):

Any American about to take a 10 hour flight to Brazil is unlikely to be hindered by filling out a basic visa form. And this is likely not a flight for a spur of the moment vacation. It's not that big a deal. And since those who have been before are the most likely future visitors, when you do get a visa, its usually for five years.

The fact is that Americans don't want to spend the extra money, which can amount to $400+ for a family of four, and the there is a huge stigma associated with getting a visa that equates to a country being dangerous.

Argentina - with no visa requirement but far less tourist sites - see's 60% more American tourists every year than Brazil.



a.
25 Frostbite : Having recently gone through the process myself, I think you are really glossing over the hassle and expense involved. Those negatives are definitely
26 787KQ : As I said, here we go again. It's more tourist-worthy and has nothing to do with the visa rule. Please provide some compelling evidence such as figure
27 WorldTraveler : The visa fee for Americans is $130 per person - the same as the US charges Brazilians. Filling out a form alone doesn't get you a visa. There is a rea
28 Frostbite : I could get an Australian visa online in little more time than it takes to post this on A.net. And at little more cost.
29 LipeGIG : I believe just after 3 or 4 years from the previous higher level. The way some countries treat Brazilians is difficult to understand ! NK waste twice
30 Post contains links FlyingSicilian : Took me 3 days at the Brazilian Consulate in Houston last summer, but I am still on file after living in Rio as a child nearly 30 years ago, which I
31 Scl767 : Not necessarily, upon entering Chile, U.S., Canadian, Mexican, and Australian citizens are required to obtain a Tourist Visa and pay a reciprocity fe
32 WorldTraveler : But that doesn't measure what the rate of tourism COULD be if there were no visas. Might have something to do with a glut of seats into MAO. FOR is p
33 Cubsrule : Most (all?) of the US consulates are horrendously slow. OTOH, some of the embassies in South America can get them done in the same day. I think it's
34 SCL767 : The same can be said for the U.S.; but every country has different entry requirements for various nationals. It's simply a reciprocity fee and doesn'
35 4EVERVARIG : Traveling to Brazil, most tourists get 90 days visa. But then again, in Europe, bad people did not hijack 4 civilian airliners and ram them into tall
36 C010T3 : That's before you enter Brazil for the first time with that specific visa. After the first entrance, the visa remains valid for future multiple entra
37 Hardiwv : Europe, including the UK, Swtizerland, Norway, do not require VISA for Brazilians. This is not true. This is also not true. Rio is also a family dest
38 787KQ : I am not saying that families from overseas can't and don't take their kids there. As an example, many families with children go to Ibiza. Nonetheles
39 Cubsrule : When did that change? They used to take plastic.
40 SCL767 : That was according the Chilean Tourism Bureau. I have never been through the process; but I would assume they would take plastic as well.
41 Hardiwv : This is an excellent way of continuing to impose the principle of reciprocity but in a smarter and more effective manner. Rgs,
42 MAH4546 : Yes, it is true. Brazil sees around 600,000-650,000 Americans, Argentina sees around 1.1M.
43 LipeGIG : I can say that right now Brazilian US Consulates and Embassy shows a 2 day waiting time for the mostly common visa requirements (B1 and B2 - Business
44 Hardiwv : You are correct. In fact spending per person in Brazil is far higher compared to other countries in the region. I dont know what your source is, but
45 LipeGIG : Just need to see the quantity of seats Brazil-US and Argentina-US offers. It's impossible to deal with 1 million visitors from US in Argentina even c
46 Hardiwv : Correct, Lipe. Even Colombia gets more US tourists than Argentina. You are also totally right in your point about the hotel rates which are very high
47 LipeGIG : Yes Hardi, we always talk about yields but at the same time, yields are good and bad. Rio have the best hotel yields in Latin America but this at the
48 787KQ : Even if Argentina gets more tourists than Brazil (and it appears that is not the case), there is no evidence that has yet been provided that it is du
49 Post contains links MAH4546 : A cause and effect relationship has long been established. After Brazil implemented the visa restrictions, travel from the U.S. collapsed 40%. And Ar
50 Post contains links 787KQ : I am not sure when you believe the drop in American tourists occurred. I believe Brazil has had a policy of requiring visas for Americans for some ti
51 Post contains links Hardiwv : I think you have to be invited to be our guest! http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/outreachpag...information.outbound_overview.html The above link is the offic
52 Post contains links Vincewy : The biggest killer is having to visit the consulate ONLY in the morning, please look at those restrictions (I am speaking as US citizen) - postal mon
53 4EVERVARIG : Actually, last time I was at the Brazilian Consulate in LA, there was computer printed sign posted on the wall, where it says that any visa applicati
54 Dellatorre : I know there are many different views over the whole Brasil vs USA visa policy, but there is one thing that is unquestionaleble. The problems and obst
55 LipeGIG : The actual drop is more due to the exchange rate which in fact we may find a relation on the drop of American visitors. 2004/2005 were years with a ve
56 Cubsrule : Does that make the visa requirement good policy?
57 Hardiwv : You are correct, Lipe. In fact, the exchange rates has more influence in the arrival of US visitors than the visa policy, this of course is a general
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