LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22062 posts, RR: 51 Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6719 times:
LA Times has a long story about how in down times, the aircraft storage business is booming, and working hard keeping up with demand with ramp space fast filing up.
Quote: As travel declines, aircraft 'boneyard' in Victorville fills up
March 15, 2009
With the economy in a tailspin, aircraft "boneyards" are filling up with Boeing 747s and other jetliners no longer needed to ferry passengers. Call it airline limbo.
The latest rush of airliners to Victorville began in October. Before long 100 aircraft were on the tarmac, then 150, and by last week the roster had swelled to nearly 200, making the outpost more crowded at times than Los Angeles International Airport.
With plane numbers far exceeding demand and travel sliding even more than anticipated, the boneyards are expected to remain busy this year.
Jeff A. Lynn, general manager for Southern California Aviation, which provides "transitional parking" for grounded planes has been growing steadily since airlines began grounding planes. Its payroll increased by 30% since last fall. The company has 150 employees and is looking for more aircraft mechanics.
"It's unfortunate, but when the economy is bad we're doing good," as he pulled a cockpit instrument off a plane last week so it could be stored for use another time or perhaps on another plane.
777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3036 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6216 times:
I wonder how many of those are ATA and Aloha birds?
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3861 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6190 times:
Quoting 777STL (Reply 1): I wonder how many of those are ATA and Aloha birds?
Probably more NW DC-9s than anything
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
Joeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6167 times:
There are 2 United planes in the picture....can anyone tell the types? I would guess a 747 and 767?
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 34 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6162 times:
Quoting Joeljack (Reply 3): There are 2 United planes in the picture....can anyone tell the types? I would guess a 747 and 767?
747-400, 737?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
SuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 625 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5253 times:
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2): Probably more NW DC-9s than anything
Tubakid4327 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 7 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4873 times:
Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 5):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Probably more NW DC-9s than anything
You mean DL DC-9s wink duck
NW DC-9's that never get to wear the DL paint. Planes that DL just gets rid of.
TVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2200 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4554 times:
Didn't see a DC 9 in the pictures, did see a 717, but it will probably be gone soon.
Par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 5902 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4503 times:
Boeing, Airbus and other OEM's should push the bone yards to have a time limit on parking which has nothing to do with the current lease etc. on the a/c. If parked beyond a certain time, it gets parted out for scrap and the funds shared between the operator of the yard and a/c holder.
It would ensure that the bone yards are filled only with a/c that will eventually be put back into service and not just used as a cheaper parking ground. As an aviation fan, I really do not like to see such great birds "whither and die" on the vine, you always want to have hope that they will be put back in service.
United_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7161 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4487 times:
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 9): Didn't see a DC 9 in the pictures, did see a 717, but it will probably be gone soon.
I did see a -ME registered 717 fly MZJ-MIA yesterday.
'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6363 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4420 times:
IMO, they should also push for the scrapping of types that will not fly again.
Whilst it may make sense to store a B777 for say 4-5 years, types such as B727, DC9 or L1011 are effectively not worth storing for more than say 2 years.
NWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3324 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4374 times:
I may be WAAAYYYY off, but I don't think NW has any DC9's at VCV...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22062 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4374 times:
Quoting Par13del (Reply 10): Boeing, Airbus and other OEM's should push the bone yards to have a time limit on parking which has nothing to do with the current lease etc.
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 12): IMO, they should also push for the scrapping of types that will not fly again.
Whilst it may make sense to store a B777 for say 4-5 years, types such as B727, DC9 or L1011 are effectively not worth storing for more than say 2 years.
Who is anyone to make that judgment, or force owners to scrap their private property arbitrarily?
Do we force landowners to develop or loose their land?, or tell people how and to whom they must have business relationships with?
If a business wants to support the storing a 30 year old plane its their financial prerogative.
Anyhow, from past experience we have seen repeated boom to bust cycles, so just because things look bleak today does not mean the plane might not have some supporting demand tomorrow.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1420 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4374 times:
Quoting 777STL (Reply 1): I wonder how many of those are ATA and Aloha birds?
There is only 7 ex-ATA aircraft at VCV (3 L-1011s and 4 753's) and they have been there for almost a year.
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2): Probably more NW DC-9s than anything
NW uses Evergreen in MZJ, not VCV.
Quoting YYCowboy (Reply 8): I wonder why DL parked that NWA 744?
Its an ex-Oasis Hong Kong, not NWA
Quoting United_Fan (Reply 11): I did see a -ME registered 717 fly MZJ-MIA yesterday.
That was N924ME from VCV-MIA which will be the third 717 for Mexicana Click
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 12): IMO, they should also push for the scrapping of types that will not fly again.
With all due respect, the OEMs have no damn business telling owners what to do with their aircraft. If I want to keep my own older airplane, then that is my prerogative. Its another story if they don't want to support it any longer, but they generally make more money doing that through parts and support than selling a new one.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
Cospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1474 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4081 times:
I think VCV is the DL paintshop so some planes are awaiting DL paint job
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3126 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3882 times:
So there are MZJ, VCV, ROW and CHR. Which other airports are routinely used for aircraft storage ?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22062 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3877 times:
MHV, Mojave is quite active also.
Also GYR-Goodyear outside Phoenix.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Cactus742 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3775 times:
Went to an Indians spring training game in Goodyear over the weekend, which is right across the street from GYR. They're not hurting for business, either. Dozens of UA and CO 733s and 735s and a few US 752s were among the more modern types out there.
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6363 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3664 times:
Perhaps they should try a scrapping like the car scheme in Germany.
If you buy a new plane, and scrap an old one at the same time you get a discount.
Boeing gets to sell an extra plane, the owner gets a discount which is more than the minimal re sale value of these old types, and finally it should harden up the used market by taking planes out of the bottem.
United_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7161 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3479 times:
I see a CX 742 is going to VCV from HKG,today.
'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3126 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3411 times:
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 20): If you buy a new plane, and scrap an old one at the same time you get a discount.
Planes are not cars, they're not completely outdated 5 years after their entry in service. Why would you want to get rid of a perfectly fine plane just because you're ordering another one ?
How can you guarantee that the scrap value of a plane will be more than its value on the used market ? The more successful your scheme turns out to be, the more used aircraft will appreciate and the more likely it is that we will find ourselves in this very situation where it is more profitable to sell the plane than to scrap it. So if it is to be scrapped nevertheless, who will pay the difference between the the valuations, and why should they ? And what about airlines whose business model is predicated on the availability of suitable used aircraft as the acquisition of new frames is beyond their reach ?
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3347 posts, RR: 30 Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 22): Planes are not cars, they're not completely outdated 5 years after their entry in service.
No, but it is fair to say that aircraft which pre-date Apollo 11 are certainly not really the most modern around (although something tells me that when the last 717 is retired, DC9s are still around)...
25 Lightsaber: The sudden flood of used spares/aircraft would: 1. Depress further the spare parts market. This would really hurt Boeing and Airbus. (What would they
26 LAXintl: I would say two reasons really. 1- MHV and its aerospace firms are moving more towards space and missile related projects and 2- The MRO vendor at VC
27 Par13del: Guys I think you took a discussion point and ran away with it, I am in no way suggesting that any laws etc. be pased, my thinking is from an industry
28 Par13del: I forgot to add something else to my previous post. Many on this site hated the day that the manufacturer grounded the Concorde, even though BA at lea
29 StudeDave : The last time I read anything about this operation-- the were SAVING taxpayer money down there in Arizona... Some of the parts on those planes are mo
30 Par13del: Not the name of the ship, but a contract was signed with a UK company to scrap a vessel, when halfway across the Atlantic, residents in the UK were a
31 Lightsaber: Very informative link. I missed the thread when it was new. I'm struck by the older 733, MD-82, and A310-300 lease rates. It implies quite a few of t
32 Par13del: I'm sure those threads will dwarf the current NW/DL DC-9 threads. Thanks
33 Alessandro: So how well to they age in such storage areas, do the sand and sun, bleach the plane? Would it make sense to pave the surface and paint it white to ma
34 Bennett123: Blueflyer I was referring to an aircraft that had been parked for 5 years for modern types. If the scrap value was significantly higher than it's re s
35 XJET: I think GWO has been a bit busier. Although I think they are strictly a scrap yard and paint shop more than actual storage. Also Brooksville in Florid
36 Lightsaber: and we still have NW/DL DC-9's! Fair enough, that wasn't clear and I appreciate the clarification. Also, there is a reason its a rule of thumb as its
37 Bennett123: Lightsaber In my hypothetical example we have an aircraft that has been stored for at least 5 years already. First question is this "why has this B767
38 Alessandro: Didn´t Lockheed sell off their civilian aircraft department?
39 DescendVia: Incorrect...... TZ was correct. Plus all planes that go for painting don't get put out in the "pasture" mixed in w/ planes in storage. Plus IIRC DL i
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