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What Is Going To Happen To Midwest Express  
User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

I did a search and did not see anything so sorry if this has come up before. If so I guess it will be deleted.

I see Boeing is taking the rest of YX 717 in Sept 2009. What does this mean for YX's future now? Can they survive on Republic and Skywest flying alone.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYx302 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

well the plan is to take republics 170 in house. Now delayed due to pilot and flight attendants contracts. And the future brings E190s Thats what the employees were told 190 is our future aircraft. Ohh and midwest express has been gone for awhile. Now reffered to as Midwest Airlines.

[Edited 2009-03-16 12:39:16]

User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

Just got a text saying the Skywest is pulling their crj200 from MKE and CHQ is taking that flying over..

User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

YX's future looks bleak, at best. I would not be surprised to see the last 9 717's leave, and then they would truly become a brand, not an airline. I doubt the E170s will ever come in house, I don't believe it for a second. I don't see them lasting another year.


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15440 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4424 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 3):
YX's future looks bleak, at best. I would not be surprised to see the last 9 717's leave, and then they would truly become a brand, not an airline. I doubt the E170s will ever come in house, I don't believe it for a second. I don't see them lasting another year.

I agree. Midwest jumped the shark when they dropped the 717s and brought on Republic to do their flying. Airlines can't become profitable simply by shrinking and outsourcing.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2401 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4384 times:



Quoting Yx302 (Reply 1):
And the future brings E190s Thats what the employees were told 190 is our future aircraft.

If I were you I'd take this with a grain of salt for the time being. There was a point where for about 3 years they kept saying there were getting sooo close to ordering Airbus/Boeing planes and they never did. Not to mention to E-140s that never came. I'll believe it when I see it.

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 2):
Just got a text saying the Skywest is pulling their crj200 from MKE and CHQ is taking that flying over..

You have any other way of confirming that this is true? I guess that would make sense to go all Embraer and I've kinda been envisioning that for a while now.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Whatever happens to Midwest, DL will be involved to some degree, since they inherited a 47% stake when DL acquired NW.

Personally, I do not ever see them being any more than a feeder for DL flights at MKE (and perhaps IND?). The coast-to-coast service via MKE will soon be history. Kinda sad for Midwest employees and residents of the MKE area.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15440 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4347 times:



Quoting DL747400 (Reply 6):
Whatever happens to Midwest, DL will be involved to some degree, since they inherited a 47% stake when DL acquired NW.

Well, if I were DL, I might consider merging them with that business jet deal (Elite something?) and making them a charter division like AC Jetz. I think that YX held some MLB charter contracts and the best thing they have going for them is their reputation for good service.That might go a long way for sports and corporate shuttles.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineYx302 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4307 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 5):

Your not telling me anything new, ive been there for years and heard it all. But with this economy i need to hope for the best, because that will keep me employed.


User currently offlineIndyWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4273 times:



Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 2):
Just got a text saying the Skywest is pulling their crj200 from MKE and CHQ is taking that flying over..

Interesting...I work at RAH and as of today, there is no news about this. No base openings, no announcements for transfers, no major pulldown of other flying that would have to happen in order to get planes for YX.....


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4241 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Airlines can't become profitable simply by shrinking...

 redflag  That is not actually true... Look at F9, for starters....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2308 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4213 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 3):
I doubt the E170s will ever come in house, I don't believe it for a second. I don't see them lasting another year.

That would be entirely up to the pilots union. No contract for 170 series flying--the planes will not be operated.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
agree. Midwest jumped the shark when they dropped the 717s and brought on Republic to do their flying. Airlines can't become profitable simply by shrinking and outsourcing.

The airline could become more profitable if it fit the size of the aircraft for the loads that the airline carries. Instead of a plane designed to carry 120 people (717) and only carry 98, they buy a plane that is designed to carry 100 people (E-series.) Again, the pilots will decide if the outsourcing continues.

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 6):
The coast-to-coast service via MKE will soon be history.

Who says?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Well, if I were DL, I might consider merging them with that business jet deal (Elite something?) and making them a charter division like AC Jetz. I think that YX held some MLB charter contracts and the best thing they have going for them is their reputation for good service.That might go a long way for sports and corporate shuttles.

Why do that? Midwest already does exactly what Delta is looking for it to do. And they don't have to run it.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24625 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4192 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Airlines can't become profitable simply by shrinking and outsourcing.

It may be more true to say that airlines can't become profitable simply by cutting routes and reducing capacity.

But if overhead is reduced as well, at a comparative or greater rate, then there is no reason why they can't become profitable.

mariner

[Edited 2009-03-16 15:29:48]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4155 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Airlines can't become profitable simply by shrinking...

That is not actually true... Look at F9, for starters....

I disagree because simply shrinking and not doing anything else will not work. F9 has made numerous other changes for the better that were the real reason they have turned it around. On the other hand, YX is still flying 712s with a high casm and 50 seat CRJs against 117 seat 712s and 137 seat 73Gs. They are just flying less of them. I don't know how they can still fly to LAS, RSW, and MCO against FL with a higher CASM and probably not enough of a RASM premium to compete. If YX has a future it will be with the E-jets.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

I seriously doubt Midwest's contract with SkyWest would allow them to simply terminate the flying without paying any penalities. The original contract was for five years, and while the amount of flying was reduced last September, I don't think that affects the time frame.

That said, read this thread for some excellent perspective on just where YX is now compared to previous years:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4347332/



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15440 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 3891 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
I disagree because simply shrinking and not doing anything else will not work.

That's exactly what I meant. Cutting unprofitable routes is a vital part of any restructuring. Doing nothing other than shrinking won't help anything. The airline has to fix itself during the process whether they shrink or not.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3767 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
I disagree because simply shrinking and not doing anything else will not work

You are correct. Look at Chrysler in the early 80's when they went Chapter 11. They shrank down and became, until recent times, a lean mean profitable machine.
Many companies have regressed and when done right, have emerged a better company.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3670 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
I disagree because simply shrinking and not doing anything else will not work.

Dude....look at F9.... We shrunk our fleet and we are also restructuring and now we are doing real, real well! See below....

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Cutting unprofitable routes is a vital part of any restructuring. Doing nothing other than shrinking won't help anything. The airline has to fix itself during the process whether they shrink or not.

 checkmark 



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3637 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
Dude....look at F9.... We shrunk our fleet and we are also restructuring and now we are doing real, real well! See below....

F9 didn't cut 75% of its fleet and outsource it to regional airlines.

Its really sad that YX barely exists anymore. YX was one of the few airlines you could book a ticket on and be guaranteed that you were going to have a great experience. YX was about more than the wide seats and cookies, it was about the great customer service their great employees provided. Even their regional subsidiary, Skyway, had great employees. I received better service from this great F/A named Janelle (I really hope she moved to another airline) on a 1 hour flight from MKE-DLH than I did on an 8 hour flight from MSP-HNL on NW. I really hope they can pull out of their downward spiral, and I really hope they realize that outsourcing 75% of your flying is not the way to provide great customer service or become profitable.

Everyone in MKE is (or was) so loyal to YX. Its sad that they flew (pun intended) their once great airline into the ground.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3630 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
I disagree because simply shrinking and not doing anything else will not work.

Dude....look at F9.... We shrunk our fleet and we are also restructuring and now we are doing real, real well! See below....

Read what else I said...

Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
F9 has made numerous other changes for the better that were the real reason they have turned it around.




717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3630 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 19):

I missed that part, my apologies.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 3466 times:



Quoting Whataboutme (Thread starter):
I see Boeing is taking the rest of YX 717 in Sept 2009.

Who says the rest of the 717's are going in September 2009?

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 3):
I don't see them lasting another year.

And if I only had a dollar for everytime I have read that on these boards.


User currently offlineSkyguyB727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 3440 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 16):
Look at Chrysler in the early 80's when they went Chapter 11.

Chrysler never filed for bankruptcy. They were at the brink of it when Lee Iacocca was at the helm. The government bailed them out.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3343 times:



Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 22):

I need to brush up on history.
You are 101% right.
They took out a $1.5 billion dollar loan, have the military buy a few thousand dodge light duty trucks, came out with the mini-van and paid uncle Sam back in 1983, years ahead of sched.
Thanks for the correction, Guy.........
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3306 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
They are just flying less of them. I don't know how they can still fly to LAS, RSW, and MCO against FL with a higher CASM and probably not enough of a RASM premium to compete. If YX has a future it will be with the E-jets.

I think everyone-- YX included-- knows that Florida and LAS is not YX's future.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 2175301 : I actually think that Midwest has a bright future (and I periodically fly them). I disagree with the people who claim that Midwest barely exist anymor
26 Mayor : Well, the military was already a Dodge customer in the 60's and 70's. Any orders in the 80's were virtually no different than the earlier "power wago
27 TZTriStar500 : Boeing Capital intends on issuing recall notices for the 9 remaining beginning in Aug of this year with them beginning to leave in Mar 2010. Your und
28 Pilotpip : Those 170s will never be flown by Midwest pilots. The CBA at Republic requires any metal owned by RAH to be flown by RAH pilots. Sorry, but we're not
29 JBo : As TriStar expained, you must keep at least one aircraft on the Midwest Airlines operating certificate or they lose the certificate. Midwest Airlines
30 EXAAUADL : Actually as an ATL based airline,DL could actually benefit from YX going under and MKE opening up. This would cause FL to move flights from ATL to MK
31 Mayor : IMHO, I think that may have been true when DL had a smaller presence in MKE, but with the merger with NW, that should now be changed.
32 Cubsrule : For now, there's no choice. There's no room for FL to grow in ATL. That may change in a few years, but for now, DL doesn't need to make the choice.
33 TVNWZ : What would Delta gain by giving AirTran any choice at all? Delta did not buy Northwest, and its dominant position in the upper midwest, just to tank i
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