Breaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19528 times:
Just noticed this change. Was a bit surprised - do any insiders know if the ship(s) to be used will have the new lie-flat seats installed or the existing BE seats? I was looking to book this trip in December/January with miles.
Could the new service be a bit less competitive/attractive against QF without the new seats?
Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
well this could be good and bad. Good because IIRC the 77E is lighter than the 77L(don't quote me) but at the same time DL now has by far the crapyest J seats in the market. No 77E will get the lie-flats till 2010. IMO unless the 77E has a large % of better CASM they are better off with the 77L. Not sure if the ERs will be able to carry full cargo.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 10044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19352 times:
Well... no good reason why the 772LR is really operationally necessary for LAX-SYD. Taking into account other norms, like the CO route map, the route should be doable by 772ER. The rule of thumb that the 772ER generally outperforms the standard 744, also suggests the 772ER should be fine on the route in light of UA's long 744 assignment on it.
"The 777-300ER is also the most fuel efficient aircraft, a fact which Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey believes will give the airline an edge over Delta Air Lines when it launches on the Pacific in July with the 777-200 Longer Range.
"Delta (is probably using) the wrong aeroplane, quite frankly, to fly from Sydney to Los Angeles. It is a wonderful aeroplane but it is built for 18 to 20 hour missions," he said. "Talk to the Boeing folk and I think they will tell you that, like for like, there is probably a 15 per cent differential in terms of seat cost on the two aeroplanes so that is quite a huge advantage for us."
FFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19073 times:
Actually - Boeing and Delta have a relationship like no other and Delta certainly doesn't need to be told by V Australia what type of aircraft they should be using for service to SYD or elsewhere Down Under. 'All the competition will have their eyes pryed open when Delta surprises them all with the flexibility and strength of their equipment matching abilities. V Australia and United will be saying WOW!
ANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19010 times:
Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 10): Boeing and Delta have a relationship like no other and Delta certainly doesn't need to be told by V Australia what type of aircraft they should be using for service to SYD or elsewhere Down Under. '
Well a 777-200er seems to not be able to carry full freight and a 777-200LR seems to be heavier than needed....
I guess it is better to go with the heavier aircraft that can carry a better load...especially with fuel being cheaper....
TravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18944 times:
Given that DL has been quoted as asking Boeing to weak the 777-200LR's range so that non-stop flights from the USA's east coast to Australia are possible, perhaps the move is a tactical one pending the introduction of nonstop ATL-SYD flights? The range charts show this is possible, but of course there are issues with headwinds and diversions on this route when heading down-under. Coming back, with the benefit of tailwinds, there is a real possiblity that DL could very quickly introduce the first Australia- East Coast USA services in the form of SYD-ATL.
Perhaps it is better to "abuse" the 200LR on the LAX-SYD route for a short time pending a longer term gain?
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
Antskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18506 times:
Quoting ANstar (Reply 11): Well a 777-200er seems to not be able to carry full freight and a 777-200LR seems to be heavier than needed....
The B772ER and the B772LR are, other than passenger capacity, such different beasts, surely just one of them would be the better fit for the route? The LR has a MTOW a sixth greater than the ER, and a range more than a fifth greater. The official Boeing site indicates it: they suggest a "typical city pair" for the ER as: "LAX-SYD" (approx 15 hours). On the same web page Boeing has, for the LR's "typical city pair"s: "ORD-SYD" (approx 19 hours). http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/.
Boeing itself seems to support Branson's comment, and the rationale behind the possible change of mind on the part of DL?
As for seat differences, http://www.seatguru.com/ gives the DL ER 50 business seats and 218 economy, and its LR 43 business seats and 233 economy.
It may be the world’s largest airline, but Delta is going to struggle to make the transpacific route pay.
So why is Delta even bothering to try to muscle in on the route with one star performer, one fresh, exciting newbie and a tired old war horse?
It’s most likely aware it has the product and profile to impact on United’s turf. That’s true. Like V Australia, it will use Boeing 777s on the route which are far more economical than Boeing 747s. It also has a newer cabin model.
But it has little brand awareness or image in the Australian market, it has no formal feeder status with Qantas or Virgin Blue, who will be jealously guarding their domestic client bases and steering them towards their international arm.
It will be left fighting for a dwindling number of Americans wanting to venture to Australia in an unprecedented downturn in the travel industry.
Delta is scheduled to commence services to Australia in July. I won’t be surprised if they don’t make it here. I will be surprised if they last 12 months.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 9851 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16516 times:
Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 9): Actually - Boeing and Delta have a relationship like no other and Delta certainly doesn't need to be told by V Australia what type of aircraft they should be using for service to SYD or elsewhere Down Under. 'All the competition will have their eyes pryed open when Delta surprises them all with the flexibility and strength of their equipment matching abilities. V Australia and United will be saying WOW!
Don't be childish. Everyone including DL knows the LR is overkill for this route. The problem is DL doesn't have anything else to put on it. Taking an ER from an existing route would mean using the LR on that route which is equaly overkill. And starting a new route, on a new market with a 744 would be nuts. They also need a product that is competitive with existing carriers on that route and in DL's fleet, only the LR can do that. So while the LR is too much airplane for the route, it is the only equipment that DL can put on the route.
MHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16291 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 21): Taking an ER from an existing route would mean using the LR on that route which is equaly overkill
I haven't been following these DL 77L threads all that much but I do know that DL is putting the 77L on the ATL-ICN route this summer. I don't recall ICN being mentioned in the original plan (SYD, JNB, and BOM) so I'm thinking the 77E currently used to ICN are going to be used for the SYD route.