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Delta's SYD Startup Now 772ER Instead Of 772LR  
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18707 times:

Just noticed this change. Was a bit surprised - do any insiders know if the ship(s) to be used will have the new lie-flat seats installed or the existing BE seats? I was looking to book this trip in December/January with miles.

Could the new service be a bit less competitive/attractive against QF without the new seats?


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18689 times:

Where do you see this?

It still shows as 77L on the delta.com site when making a dummy booking.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18644 times:

airlineroute.blogspot.com, it says it's in the GDS as of 16March.


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18544 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Thread starter):

well this could be good and bad. Good because IIRC the 77E is lighter than the 77L(don't quote me) but at the same time DL now has by far the crapyest J seats in the market. No 77E will get the lie-flats till 2010. IMO unless the 77E has a large % of better CASM they are better off with the 77L. Not sure if the ERs will be able to carry full cargo.



yep.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18531 times:

Well... no good reason why the 772LR is really operationally necessary for LAX-SYD. Taking into account other norms, like the CO route map, the route should be doable by 772ER. The rule of thumb that the 772ER generally outperforms the standard 744, also suggests the 772ER should be fine on the route in light of UA's long 744 assignment on it.

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18528 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 2):
airlineroute.blogspot.com, it says it's in the GDS as of 16March.

Yes just looked.

STRANGE.... as it is ONLY the maiden flight that is 772er, the rest are all 77L


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18378 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 5):
STRANGE.... as it is ONLY the maiden flight that is 772er, the rest are all 77L

thats what i see to.
Maybe someone put the wrong thing in.......?



yep.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18316 times:
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Brett Godfrey, the CEO of V Australia talked about this:

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/branson...lia-measures-up-20090213-86oz.html

"The 777-300ER is also the most fuel efficient aircraft, a fact which Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey believes will give the airline an edge over Delta Air Lines when it launches on the Pacific in July with the 777-200 Longer Range.

"Delta (is probably using) the wrong aeroplane, quite frankly, to fly from Sydney to Los Angeles. It is a wonderful aeroplane but it is built for 18 to 20 hour missions," he said. "Talk to the Boeing folk and I think they will tell you that, like for like, there is probably a 15 per cent differential in terms of seat cost on the two aeroplanes so that is quite a huge advantage for us."


Maybe delta agreed with him.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18248 times:

Per the site that this information is from the 772 will only operate LAX-SYD on 7/2 and 7/4. All other flights are still scheduled as 77L.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18252 times:

Actually - Boeing and Delta have a relationship like no other and Delta certainly doesn't need to be told by V Australia what type of aircraft they should be using for service to SYD or elsewhere Down Under. 'All the competition will have their eyes pryed open when Delta surprises them all with the flexibility and strength of their equipment matching abilities. V Australia and United will be saying WOW!

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18189 times:



Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 10):
Boeing and Delta have a relationship like no other and Delta certainly doesn't need to be told by V Australia what type of aircraft they should be using for service to SYD or elsewhere Down Under. '

Well a 777-200er seems to not be able to carry full freight and a 777-200LR seems to be heavier than needed....

I guess it is better to go with the heavier aircraft that can carry a better load...especially with fuel being cheaper....


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18123 times:

Given that DL has been quoted as asking Boeing to weak the 777-200LR's range so that non-stop flights from the USA's east coast to Australia are possible, perhaps the move is a tactical one pending the introduction of nonstop ATL-SYD flights? The range charts show this is possible, but of course there are issues with headwinds and diversions on this route when heading down-under. Coming back, with the benefit of tailwinds, there is a real possiblity that DL could very quickly introduce the first Australia- East Coast USA services in the form of SYD-ATL.

Perhaps it is better to "abuse" the 200LR on the LAX-SYD route for a short time pending a longer term gain?



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlineAlitaliaDC10 From Australia, joined Dec 2008, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17847 times:

The flight is also now a terminator at LAX and is no longer ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL.


Orbis non sufficit
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17693 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):



Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):

Guys - thanks for answering my questions on the seats and pointing out that this seems to be limited to the inaugural flight for some reason - I hadn't noticed that!

Perhaps it's as simple as wanting a few extra seats for day 1 in C (I think the 77L doesn't have as many C seats as the 77E?

Anyway, thanks again!



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 932 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17685 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
Well a 777-200er seems to not be able to carry full freight and a 777-200LR seems to be heavier than needed....

The B772ER and the B772LR are, other than passenger capacity, such different beasts, surely just one of them would be the better fit for the route? The LR has a MTOW a sixth greater than the ER, and a range more than a fifth greater. The official Boeing site indicates it: they suggest a "typical city pair" for the ER as: "LAX-SYD" (approx 15 hours). On the same web page Boeing has, for the LR's "typical city pair"s: "ORD-SYD" (approx 19 hours). http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/.
Boeing itself seems to support Branson's comment, and the rationale behind the possible change of mind on the part of DL?

As for seat differences, http://www.seatguru.com/ gives the DL ER 50 business seats and 218 economy, and its LR 43 business seats and 233 economy.

[Edited 2009-03-16 22:48:34]

[Edited 2009-03-16 22:51:53]

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17606 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 22):
Perhaps it's as simple as wanting a few extra seats for day 1 in C (I think the 77L doesn't have as many C seats as the 77E?

That's a possibility. The 77E has 50 BE seats versus 43 on the 77L although, IIRC, all new 77L's will be delivered with 45 BE seats.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineSpdBrdConcorde From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17305 times:

Isn't SFO-AKL or LAX-AKL longer and NZ seems to be doing fine with the 772ER on those routes....

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17281 times:



Quoting SpdBrdConcorde (Reply 16):
Isn't SFO-AKL or LAX-AKL longer and NZ seems to be doing fine with the 772ER on those routes....

Both are shorter than LAX-SYD.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17274 times:

Interesting article here...

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...ute-$pd20090317-Q88YF?OpenDocument

Quote:

It may be the world’s largest airline, but Delta is going to struggle to make the transpacific route pay.



Quote:

So why is Delta even bothering to try to muscle in on the route with one star performer, one fresh, exciting newbie and a tired old war horse?

It’s most likely aware it has the product and profile to impact on United’s turf. That’s true. Like V Australia, it will use Boeing 777s on the route which are far more economical than Boeing 747s. It also has a newer cabin model.

But it has little brand awareness or image in the Australian market, it has no formal feeder status with Qantas or Virgin Blue, who will be jealously guarding their domestic client bases and steering them towards their international arm.

It will be left fighting for a dwindling number of Americans wanting to venture to Australia in an unprecedented downturn in the travel industry.

Delta is scheduled to commence services to Australia in July. I won’t be surprised if they don’t make it here. I will be surprised if they last 12 months.



User currently offlineJQFlightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 982 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16186 times:



Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Reply 12):
The flight is also now a terminator at LAX and is no longer ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL.

i guess this would make sence, this would have meant a wide body ATL - LAX ?



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15910 times:

I am surprised I would have thought DL would have made sure their maiden flight had the best product in-case any press were on board or reviews of the flight were noted?

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15695 times:



Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 9):
Actually - Boeing and Delta have a relationship like no other and Delta certainly doesn't need to be told by V Australia what type of aircraft they should be using for service to SYD or elsewhere Down Under. 'All the competition will have their eyes pryed open when Delta surprises them all with the flexibility and strength of their equipment matching abilities. V Australia and United will be saying WOW!

Don't be childish. Everyone including DL knows the LR is overkill for this route. The problem is DL doesn't have anything else to put on it. Taking an ER from an existing route would mean using the LR on that route which is equaly overkill. And starting a new route, on a new market with a 744 would be nuts. They also need a product that is competitive with existing carriers on that route and in DL's fleet, only the LR can do that. So while the LR is too much airplane for the route, it is the only equipment that DL can put on the route.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15693 times:



Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 20):
I am surprised I would have thought DL would have made sure their maiden flight had the best product in-case any press were on board or reviews of the flight were noted?

The maiden flight on 7/1 is still scheduled as a 77L. It's the 2nd and 4th flights on 7/2 and 7/4 respectively that will be operated by the 77E.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 15470 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 21):
Taking an ER from an existing route would mean using the LR on that route which is equaly overkill

I haven't been following these DL 77L threads all that much but I do know that DL is putting the 77L on the ATL-ICN route this summer. I don't recall ICN being mentioned in the original plan (SYD, JNB, and BOM) so I'm thinking the 77E currently used to ICN are going to be used for the SYD route.


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 15380 times:



Quoting JQFlightie (Reply 19):
Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Reply 12):
The flight is also now a terminator at LAX and is no longer ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL.

i guess this would make sence, this would have meant a wide body ATL - LAX ?

DL flies widebody aircraft between LAX and ATL multiple times daily, sometimes including 777's.


25 Post contains links Glareskin : Hmm, despite of that they are using the 77L on the MCO - ATL route. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4349459/ Funny g
26 Jfk777 : Delta's LR has far more capabilty then LAX to SYD but not every route is going to need the 18 hour capability of Mumbai to ATL. An LR to Aussie can c
27 AirNZ : Well, I'd certainly respectfully disagree with everything in there lol!! As for Boeing and DL having a cosy relationship, can you please explain of w
28 Nickofatlanta : Not entirely true - DL actually has a more varied fleet at their disposal than United or V Australia if they see fit .... they can use 77Ls, 772s or
29 Runway23 : The 777 is not currently scheduled to fly LAX-ATL. It would have been with ATL-LAX-SYD. I'm expecting this move to coincide with LAX-NRT being downga
30 SuseJ772 : Bummer. I was wanting to fly that plane on that route. They do this all the time. Better to fly it out and back (assuming you can fill it) than just
31 OyKIE : The 777-200LR have more efficient engines and burns less fuel on flights longer than 2000NM than the 777-200ER according to zvezda. So it must be ano
32 CompensateMe : The arrival from NRT into LAX is 10:05AM, the departure back to NRT is 1:20PM. There's very little flexibility with these times as the flight's timed
33 GSPSPOT : I had every intention of booking FC on ATL-LAX-ATL on the 77L flights in July or August. That bites the big one. I'm really upset now!
34 Alitalia744 : The flight is only opping a few days with the 77E. It will revert back to the 77L and is supposed to stay 77L for the long-run. Lets end the speculati
35 Mayor : It looks to me as though, during the first week of service, only, the flight is a 77E, only on 7/2 and 7/4.....all the rest of the days are 77L. No ne
36 DfwRevolution : I believe it's about 4,500 nm where the 777-200LR will burn less fuel than a -200ER with like payload. That's still "short" enough for the -200LR to
37 Panamair : Indeed, I think it bears repeating: THE 77E WILL ONLY OPERATE LAX-SYD ON JULY 2ND AND JULY 4TH (AND THE CORRESPONDING RETURN SYD-LAX ON JULY 4TH AND
38 HB-IWC : The B772LR will still operate the ATL LAX ATL sectors, but just not under the SYD flight number. Here is how the aircraft will be positioned and then
39 SuseJ772 : This is über-helpful information. Thank you!
40 GSPSPOT : Thanks!
41 OA412 : What a shock. Except for the fact that the the 'whole world' doesn't know that the 77L is the wrong aircraft for the route. DL has the 77E and the 74
42 SunriseValley : I believe the original data was from Widebodyphoto which I quote below. There are a number of nuances involved in all this. This posting dates back t
43 AA777223 : I was under the impression that these birds were a titch hobbled with their PW 4090 engines reducing their range. They might not be able to make the
44 United1 : The PWs do have to a slightly higher weight penalty then the RR/GE powered 777s would have to take but it's no where near as much as what is rumored
45 Ncfc99 : I think the point trying to be made is that the 77W will offer VA the lowest CASM aginst UA in a 744 and DL in a 77L(the normal planes on the route f
46 DeltaL1011man : and the first two will be getting 45. Not 100% sure when but it should be soon IIRC could be a testing run. Just to see how well the 77E would do if
47 Planefxr : It is called an ETOPS verification flight.
48 Viscount724 : However 777-200LR landing fees will be significantly higher than for the -200ER since landing fees are generally based on MTOW (except in the U.S. wh
49 ANstar : Exactly... and lets not also frget the fact that V Australia - Pay Captains around $120K AUD per year (Around $79k USD) - Cabin crew earn about $32k
50 Tinpusher007 : With respect to the issue of CASM, one has to remember that you still have to fill the airplane up to spread that cost around. With so much competiti
51 Breaker1011 : And to further that, the route puts Delta in the category of 6-continent carriers and defines it's "global image." I still fully, 100% believe that t
52 Viscount724 : I don't think that's important for the vast majority of customers who only care whether the airline is going where they want to go. I doubt many pass
53 Breaker1011 : [quote=Viscount724,reply=52] My point was that it's a marketing concept that, whether John Q Public is all that interested or not, many carriers the s
54 ThomasCook : Hey, Obviously just my opinion but I don't think any airline on this route could be as attractive as Qantas; especially on those A380 operated sectors
55 ANstar : With 2 Aussie airlines who will no doubt provide better service than their American counterparts, this is why Delta (and UA ) will struggle - at leas
56 FlyDeltaJets87 : Just because it's not the same flight number for ATL-LAX as LAX-SYD doesn't mean the 777 will necessarily be pulled from ATL-LAX. As of now Delta's w
57 777STL : DL is starting this route in July? In the middle of the Aussie winter? That's suicidal. I totally agree. I thoroughly enjoyed my 380 experience on QF
58 Panamair : Yes, but what's important is the corporate contracts market, and the more breadth/scope one has, one is in a better position to win and maintain thos
59 Zkpilot : Whilst the LR is heavier than the ER, it is actually more efficient over flights of this distance... so despite having to carry extra weight, due to
60 Jfk777 : Qantas clearly dominates the market by A380 and frequency. Delta is NOT out to dominate the market, they connect 100 passengers daily to Australia in
61 777STL : I don't think there's so much a market there as DL just wants to be able to say they're flying to six continents, i.e. for the marketing aspect of it
62 Jfk777 : I don't expect DL to keep all 100 of its connecting passenger but if they try to sell Sydney they may just sell 200 seats daily to Australia. Not lon
63 Zeke : VB also offered the 77W aircraft to QF, QF canned the idea, as far as I am concerned, VB is on life support. V Australia is the one using the wrong a
64 Jfk777 : 23:45 Los Angeles Tue 19 May 07:10 Sydney Thu 21 May 20:00 Sydney 16:30 Los Angeles The above is V Australia's schedule from SYD to LAX, The SYD fligh
65 ANstar : Could still get Red Eyes from 9pm....
66 CMHARJ : Are the employees in SYD that'll be working the DL flights, will they be DL employees or contracted out?
67 777STL : I don't think that's completely true. The oldest QF 744 isn't quite yet 20 years old so using the 743 as a basis for measurement, we'll probably see
68 REALDEAL : QF is at it again. The daily nonstop BNE/LAX is being cancelled again. Interestingly in CRS 21JUN BNE/LAX now cancelled but 21JUN LAX/BNE is still ope
69 Smi0006 : Normal rep arrangement maybe 6 or so, 3 or so on to cover flight maybe more if there will be any in lounge and the rest will be contracted I hear Tol
70 CHRISBA777ER : I'd be inclined to agree with you - took QF A388 SIN-SYD-SIN for three days last week and it was absolutely excellent. I flew SQ from LHR-SIN on thei
71 Post contains images Jetlanta : First off, I don't recall a single "fanboy" saying anything about Delta becoming the market leader at all, much less in a week. Show me where someone
72 Haggis79 : out of the top of my head: - unlimited free beer, wine and spirits - more and better food - cloth seats vs. leather seats
73 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Haggis is absolutely correct. He does not mention the inch or so extra pitch you get on a QF A388, the far quieter and less dry cabin, the service wh
74 Nickofatlanta : Is this really true? Are you saying that VB wanted to scrap V Australia and offered the planes to QF?
75 Zkpilot : I have heard this rumour also. IMHO I only give it about a 5% chance of being true. Just doesn't make any sense.
76 777STL : It seems to be a bit of an attitude to me, not something someone has come out and said specifically. I call it the "everything DL touches turns to go
77 Post contains links Jetlanta : Well, the second two of those are purely debatable and a matter of opinion. A none of them are going to be decision driver for pretty much 99% of the
78 PA515 : As this equates to just one aircraft for four days is it simply due to the later than expected delivery of N708DN (c/n 39254)? Prior to the Boeing st
79 Post contains images OA412 : Show us exactly where this "attitude" is displayed in this thread and where anyone on this thread suggested that anything DL touches turns to gold. G
80 Mayor : I'm wondering how they can compare QF's service with one that hasn't even started yet.
81 Jetlanta : Since you seem to know it all. Perhaps you can run down which of those things are factual vs. opinon and which are true vs. a wild guess. Because on
82 Haggis79 : I give you the seats as debatable.... the amount of the food, however, is not. Granted, the LAX-SYD flight hasn't started yet - but I doubt the produ
83 777STL : Did you not read what I typed? I said it's not so much what someone has said, it's the general aire of arrogance here - the whole mentality that DL i
84 Mayor : I don't know.....and you don't, either.
85 Jfk777 : Delta has a huge FF base on the USA's east cost especially in the south. AA has a decent presence in Miami, New York, and Boston. Delta has a huge pr
86 Haggis79 : well, I guess those people flying regularly to Australia are members of an FF program other than DL's already.... even if living in NY, Boston or Flo
87 OA412 : I read exactly what you typed and I take your failure to provide any specific examples to mean that there are none... So you're arguing that QF will
88 DeltaL1011man : how? how? ahhhh now i see we are going to bash Delta on a mater of option. Got it. AA sucks because I don't like the color blue. huh? Then why do the
89 Haggis79 : and how many of those 100 are regular flyers on expensive tickets?
90 AnsettB727 : There will be so many seats on these routes Delta could send a cattle truck and still be able to fill it, regardless of what the seating's like. Livin
91 Haggis79 : well, it's not going to be DL for you then.... at least not for now
92 Breaker1011 : To suggest that the "quantity or quality of food" is a driver of the purchase decisions of even just the population of J/C travelers is crazy and ove
93 Haggis79 : you can be sure I do....
94 WorldTraveler : I can zone out for 50 posts on this thread as well as others just like it and we are still back to the same argument about whether DL can compete with
95 ATTart : [quote=WorldTraveler,reply=102] I still think you will see UA pull out of the LAX-SYD market. That will never happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
96 WorldTraveler : If you've worked in the airline industry for ANY length of time, you know words like ALWAYS and NEVER are pretty dangerous.
97 ATTart : Yes I have worked in the industry for awhile now. Yes I know that ALWAYS and NEVER are pretty dangerous words to use in this business. But I know thi
98 United1 : What I'd like to know is how many of those flyer's booked DL because they had a reason to fly on DL (FFlyers, preference) vs how many of those travel
99 WorldTraveler : Given that DL will be able to compete on both counts, they should be able to capture plenty of passengers. 100 passengers per day is more than one-th
100 United1 : Please post it then if its so readily available as I asked you to do so many replies ago......including DLs and VAs projected CASM/RASM. You yourself
101 Ikramerica : but DL won't capture 100%. Some people want to fly QF. But they also will likely pick up AS connecting pax as the AS+DL partnership grows, pulling pa
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