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Qatar Airways Boss Slams A340-600  
User currently offlineArabAirX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 39482 times:

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=15907

"Two 777-200LRs and one -300ER have arrived in the past month, he said, adding that he is unhappy with the performance of QR's four A340-600s. "If I could, I would throw them away. These planes are not efficient at all.""

...makes EK's decision to ditch their plans for the A340-600 a few years ago to be a wise one!

157 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19738 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 39441 times:



Quoting ArabAirX (Thread starter):

"Two 777-200LRs and one -300ER have arrived in the past month, he said, adding that he is unhappy with the performance of QR's four A340-600s. "If I could, I would throw them away. These planes are not efficient at all.""

Um... well compared to a 777, duh.

But it's QATAR. They're swimming in oil!


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 39361 times:

Why doesn't he, I'll be happy to take his "garbage" Big grin


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 39288 times:



Quoting ArabAirX (Thread starter):
he is unhappy with the performance of QR's four A340-600s. "If I could, I would throw them away. These planes are not efficient at all

How remarkably that LH with substantial higher fuel costs loves the planes. And is able to make profit with them.
Like all Airline executive statements we'll have to take this statement with a grain of salt. Besides I don't like -600 bashing anway. It is maybe not the most efficient anymore since the 773 has been introduced but it is definitely the most beautiful bird around.....



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 39272 times:

LoL... and then this comment which I can only presume is aimed at Embraer

Quote:

Talks with another unidentified regional jet manufacturer failed as well. "This company, I will never call again in my life," Al Baker said.

Seems to be quite hasty with his words!


User currently offlineChrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1069 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 39218 times:

Funny LH, VS, EY, TG all seem to do ok with their A346's


Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 932 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 39221 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
But it's QATAR. They're swimming in oil!

Not as much oil as the USA and (even more so) Canada have. Maybe they use less... I would think Qatar's location and suitability as a hub between Europe/USA and Asia/Australasia, plus good investment in the business make the difference. EK and EY have been good local role models...


User currently offlineAustralis From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 39170 times:

Well, considering the routes Qatar Airways currently flies, where exactly are the A340-600s flying on? I mean, you do not see Lufthansa, Virgin Atlantic or Iberia flying the bird on 4-5 hr sector routes.

I do admit the B777 are fuel efficient, but does not mean the A340-600 doesnt fulfill its task to the best it can.


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 39135 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 4):
LoL... and then this comment which I can only presume is aimed at Embraer

Rather Bombardier as they have withdrawn their interest in the C-Series...

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineSwallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 39093 times:

QR was the launch customer for the 346 HGW. This is what Mr Al Baker said when he received the first 346 on Sept 20th 06.

This is a wonderful aircraft that excels in comfort and efficiency and I am sure our customers will have a thoroughly enjoyable flying experience on our long-haul routes. We are flying the A340-600 on selected services between Dubai and Doha and onwards to London Heathrow and, in future, Paris, Osaka and the US east coast.'

Times have changed, the first class lounge is no more and the planes will exit the fleet later this year or early 2010. Given that QR does not like to keep planes longer than 5 years, this exit is not exactly premature. The planes are going out of the fleet, so why not kick them on their way out.

Retiring planes older than 5 years is an interesting strategy. Let' see how long they can sustain it.


http://www.ameinfo.com/96836.html



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 38927 times:

The fact that the A346 uses more fuel that the T7 isn't really news - bit of strange rant though as with oil at $40 a barrel fuel costs will be a smaller proportion of overall running costs.

Maybe it's a case of keeping Airbus on thier toes with regards to the huge A350 order that they've got.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38792 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
But it's QATAR. They're swimming in oil!

Actually, it's mostly natural gas. Offshore Qatar are some of the largest reserves of gas on the planet. They are swimming in cash and eager to surpass Emirates as the number one airline in the middle east.

As we've seen from way back in the original A350 days, Al Baker has particular tastes and he doesn't mind letting the world know when he's upset.



What the...?
User currently offlineAviationbuff From India, joined Mar 2008, 1425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38775 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 4):
LoL... and then this comment which I can only presume is aimed at Embraer



Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 8):
Rather Bombardier as they have withdrawn their interest in the C-Series...



Quote:
He also said that the carrier considered Bombardier's CSeries, which received its first firm order this week from Lufthansa (ATWOnline, March 12), but that any plan to add regional jets at this point "is now on ice." He claimed he was unable to get the price he wanted from Bombardier, "and we wanted a guarantee for performance, which we didn't get." Talks with another unidentified regional jet manufacturer failed as well. "This company, I will never call again in my life," Al Baker said.

Probably Embraer. As the article states that the talks failed with a regional jet manufacturer other than Bombardier.

Probably now its the turn of Sukhoi  Big grin


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38736 times:



Quoting Aviationbuff (Reply 12):
Probably now its the turn of Sukhoi

Maybe it was Sukoi.



What the...?
User currently offlineAviationbuff From India, joined Mar 2008, 1425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38705 times:



Quoting Swallow (Reply 9):
The planes are going out of the fleet, so why not kick them on their way out.

MR. Al Baker never misses a single opportunity to hog the limelight. He may also say similar things when the time comes for QR to replace 777 with A350.  Big grin


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38651 times:

Very disappointing from Al-Baker but then QR do use them on short hops around the region, as well as on the seven hour hops to LHR and CDG. They are not using them as they were meant to be used. They use them to HKG as well though and that is a good use of their capability. Still, a shame to see him join in the cheerleading. Bizarre comments re Bombardier and the C Series though - not very wise IMHO.

I still reckon they bought them with the intention to fly them to Oz but the deal took years to happen - by which time they bought the 77W.

The A346 did a wonderful job for them for a few years until the 77W came - simple as that.

Quite telling that EY love theirs. I strongly doubt QR will have any trouble finding appreciative new homes for these lovely birds.

GOLF ALPHA
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And a couple more, who I am very glad don't feel the same way as Mr Al-Baker.

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What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38586 times:



Quoting Swallow (Reply 9):
Given that QR does not like to keep planes longer than 5 years, this exit is not exactly premature.

Do we know this for sure? They are a relatively new airline. What have they retired apart from some A306? If there is any truth in this, those A332s from 2002/2003 should have gone by now?



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 38346 times:

Facts and manners aside this belly aching is empty. With production delays being the order of the day at both Boeing and Airbus, oil prices back down to earth and a green light to fly down under (the type of mission the 346 was designed for) I think the 346s will be around for a while. Of course when ego is factored into the discussion god only knows what might happen, these glorious bird might end up with Amiri flight.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineTreeHillRavens From Malaysia, joined Jun 2007, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 38347 times:



Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 5):
Funny LH, VS, EY, TG all seem to do ok with their A346's

I don't think VS and TG are happy with their 346 ...

Quoting Swallow (Reply 9):
Given that QR does not like to keep planes longer than 5 years, this exit is not exactly premature.

Are you sure ? Some of their 330 are already more than 5-year-old now ...


User currently offlineSwallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 38077 times:

Quoting Swallow (Reply 9):
Given that QR does not like to keep planes longer than 5 years, this exit is not exactly premature.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 16):
Do we know this for sure?



Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 18):
Are you sure ? Some of their 330 are already more than 5-year-old now ...

I am just quoting the article the OP linked.

QR also has been forced to invest more money in its A330 fleet owing to the delay in the 787 program. It hesitates to operate aircraft older than five years

Whether or not this is true in practice is up for debate.



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7616 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 38014 times:

Raises the question, "why did you buy it sir".

User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 37571 times:



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 20):
Raises the question, "why did you buy it sir"

" Because they seemed cheap"



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3069 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 37461 times:



Quoting JoKeR (Reply 2):
Why doesn't he, I'll be happy to take his "garbage"

I would too, until I realize that I probably wouldn't even be able to pay the import tax..... would this fit in with the luxury vehicle tax????

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineNicholaschee From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 37462 times:

Any idea where these 346s will be heading to?

User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 37144 times:



Quoting Nicholaschee (Reply 23):
Any idea where these 346s will be heading to?

That's the real question, and probably the real reason of Al-Bakr's ranting too.

Remember: QR has a policy to operate a plane for only 5 years and then to sell it on. It's one of the corners of their business plan actually, as it keeps their maintenance costs low, the fleet efficiency high and the depreciations on their fleet at a controlable level.

His idea probably was to do exactly the same with the A346, hence him not caring about the higher fuel burn (and thus likely also slightly higher operating cost) of the frame just 2 years ago. Makes sense in fact: why buy a much more expensive plane (like the 77W), if the only was to recover the additional investment is from its lower operating costs: meaning flying it a lot and for long time????

Better buy the cheapest frame you can find, fly it for a few years, make good money with it (which contrary to popular believe here on A.net IS possible, just look at what LH is doing) and sell it on as a top-second hand product at a reasonable price still, thus not loosing too much money on the depreciation: my bet is that the overall return on investment of such a well-executed policy is similar if not higher than from operating much higher priced 77W, with the added bonus that the amount of money invested is smaller even!

Now, the big problem is that the global economy has crashed however and Al-Bakr is basically stuck with his A346 fleet: probably he has come to the conclusion that he'll have to let them go for much less than what he had planned for, and thus the spreadsheet isn't looking as nice as it once did... the alternative is to operate them for much longer then planned, but then the economics of the plane suddenly start to be important after all...

Better than to slam the plane, he'd better slam his own shortsightedness: the plane is doing just fine and exactly as it should, his business plan however isn't!


25 Frigatebird : Funny how Mr. Akbar Al Baker deals with aircraft manufacturers. It took many years to firm up the Airbus A350 deal, major Boeing orders for 777's and
26 JQFlightie : awww i like these aircraft whats not to likeabot them thy look good! and if they are like any other Airbus they are easy to work on-board as cain crew
27 RussianJet : Well, well, well. The A340 isn't as fuel-efficient as the 777. Who knew?
28 Swallow : Yes, they are going to Qatar Leasing formerly known as Oryx leasing
29 LongHaul67 : What a moron he is! If he bought the wrong aircraft (which seems to be the case), then that is his fault, not the manufacturers.
30 Swallow : Well, he went from calling them 'wonderful aircraft that excel in comfort and efficiency' to "If I could, I would throw them away". Stuff happens. It
31 NicoEDDF : @TreeHillRavens Is this a statement with background knowledge? Or have you heard, or even read on a.net, that an airline, apart from LH, cannot be ha
32 CHRISBA777ER : He is correct about VS - they are not stunningly happy with their A346s, mainly as a result of higher than expected fuel burn. They are much more eco
33 RJ111 : He only makes himself look stupid by saying that. Because it wasn't very long ago they bought them brand new. Suggests that his company don't take a g
34 Post contains images AustrianZRH : Haven't they returned their A346s to ILFC because they had some early, overweight birds which they weren't satisfied with?
35 Archer : A bit off the question - but was there a 340-400?
36 A333TS : I was under impression that VS was unhappy with the first birds that they received (weight issues and such), but Airbus fixed all problems with the l
37 NorthStarDC4M : Planned, never built... stretched (not as much as the 346) and keept the CFM56 power plants though uprated... obvious performance drawbacks, never go
38 CHRISBA777ER : The early birds were not great, but the later birds were not quite as VS would have wanted them - not disastrously bad but not wonderful. Its solely
39 AirNZ : Why, or based on what, exactly?
40 CHRISBA777ER : They returned them because Boeing gave them a killer deal on 77Ws and they had a small subfleet. It was not a performance or reliability issue - Boei
41 AA777223 : If he's trying to offload these expensive, lightly used little toys, it wouldnt seem very prudent to bash them. You don't see many used car dealers tr
42 Scouseflyer : Thanks for that! That's what I love about a.net, I keep finding little nuggets of info that aren't available anywhere else. Given that there is a rep
43 Bennett123 : My recollection with VS was that they wanted to put a whole lot of extra heavy kit in First. This had an impact on the structure or balance or somethi
44 EMB170 : I was about to say the same thing...I thought CX wasn't happy with their A346s at all...and that's why they were only leased and are no longer flying
45 Directorguy : I feel the A340-600 to be an extremey comfortable aircraft, and I like the way QR (and EY) configure theirs. In fact, I always choose the A346 over th
46 JAL : Wow! I don't think I have seen anyone so vocally unhappy about a particular aircraft! So, any word from Airbus?
47 Khobar : I would not be surprised if this was a ploy to get Airbus to take the A340's back as a credit against A350's. And yes, you do see used car dealers ba
48 TiktokJAKE : I could not agree more. I LOVE THIS PLANE
49 SeaBosDca : The 343 is definitely limited by lack of thrust. It's a very capable aircraft as is but it could have been fully competitive with the 772ER in terms
50 OldAeroGuy : I'm sure the fact that the 773ER burns around 10% - 12% less fuel (about 1000 kg per hour in cruise) didn't hurt either. The majority of the airline
51 Gr8Circle : A little off topic.... Isn't it quite ironic that a lot of people on this forum love to bash EK and other Gulf based airlines because they apparently
52 AAMDanny : Well actually Iberia have the tendancy to send them on the MAD-TFN runs. (3Hrs)
53 Post contains images Hloutweg : These two statements above, contradict each other. Obviously, he did consider the Airbus quads to be a great buy before.
54 CHRISBA777ER : I've done EWR-LHR on a VS A346 in just over five and a half hours.
55 Post contains links Khobar : Not necessarily. Airbus may have given him a publicity discount. Remember when SQ was all upset over the delays with the A380, they met with Airbus a
56 DfwRevolution : CX always fond of the A346? Pushing the edge of what I would call revisionist history. The very first A346s that CX received did not meet OEW spec an
57 Icaro : No way. All IB's A346's are fresh from the factory. The first batch of three were supposed to go to Swissair, but after its demise they went to Iberi
58 Xdlx : USAIRWAYS ??? They were looking for some frames for their China Route.
59 TreeHillRavens : I did read it here on A.net. Where else can you hear people bashing the 345/346 like all the time other than A.net ? But to be fair, they are probabl
60 Post contains images KGAIflyer : I don't think so. QR has dedicated 332s for this purpose.
61 TiktokJAKE : I think that they should give them to BA. An A346 in BA livery would look awesome!
62 CHRISBA777ER : I'm only going on what Zeke told me, and what i'd heard from them last time I wrote CX's credit report - but what we know? He only flies the things a
63 Cloudyapple : I suggest you take a look at airfleets.net to check out which aircraft Cathay had before you make such statement. One's credibility can easily be des
64 SuseJ772 : Simple. Follow the "Bono/U2 School of Escaping Taxes" and just register it in Bermuda or the Grand Caymen or something
65 CARST : Every time when we are discussing the A340 here and especially in comparison with the 777 some people throw in LH as the happy customer who makes all
66 Gr8Circle : you've got a point there....but on the other hand, we haven't heard anything negative from them either (about the 346)....
67 PEET7G : I am glad I am not the only one with these views... I always loved the way one side sees LH as a happy A340 customer when it comes to the A346, but t
68 Keesje : Anyway trashing aircraft you want to lease out ASAP isn't smart, however you look at it
69 Post contains links and images YOWza : I don't know that having 332s dedicated to that purpose in any way prevents having other types but since you bring it up Amiri flight also operates:
70 CARST : No, you are right here. But i believe there is something between unhappy and happy. I am just speculating now, but perhaps a LH without any A340s and
71 Heavierthanair : G'day With the same guy having said this after buying the plane, and now saying this that he no longer wants it makes him quite a fool in my opinion.
72 MD-90 : Could it have been Mitsubishi?
73 AA777223 : Ok, well, I don't actually buy used cars. I prefer to know how mine have been maintained fresh from the factory. I was simply trying to make the same
74 Shankly : Sums it up really A bad workman always blames his tools. Wrong plane for the routes they are operated on. He would also suffer similar economics if h
75 Ojas : The A340-600 were ordered then as it was announced QR would start MEL. However it did give them that quick advantage to start IAD when the B77W were
76 NicoEDDF : Absolutely not. It is just the bit of perspective needed when people are only seeing black and white on aircraft performance and base all their facts
77 Ikramerica : That they have. Not really. It's only recently that they took delivery of the 77L and 77W, and now have operational data on it rather than second han
78 Gilesdavies : Guys I am sorry I have not had time to read every post in detail and skimmed over some... Didn't Airbus issue an "Advisory" to all A340-600 customers,
79 DfwRevolution : Every airline is unique in its circumstances. Logically, you can only go as far as to say that LH doesn't need 777 to be successful. For other airlin
80 AF022 : Didn't I just read on another thread that QR was going to keep the A346s in their fleet, after last year's indication that they were going to shed the
81 Trystero : Though the resuslts are far from being god, I wonder if TP could use one of these. AFAIK the flights to Luanda have a lot of demand and since the Ang
82 GF777 : I wish Etihad would do the same..
83 Viscount724 : Can you provide a few examples where that affects the ability of the 343 to be used on certain routes? In fact, the 343 can operate some routes where
84 Trystero : I believe TP uses 343 to Luanda, not for the distance ( it's 100km more thna to New York), but for the extra load it takes. It compensates by far tha
85 Aerokiwi : That doesn't make sense though. If they are anticipating having trouble offloading the A346s, why slam the plane in the media like this, damaging any
86 SeaBosDca : Any route where the 343 runs into the limits of its payload/range performance. With more thrust, the 343 could also have more TOW and therefore bette
87 EXAAUADL : may have something to do with the markets they fly or pax mix in those markets. At least no one said SA.
88 Khobar : I'm still betting this is a ploy to pressure Airbus to part with some money in one form or another to shut him up.
89 UpstateDave : I feel inclined to add some facts about the EIS dates... The -300ER entered service just 19 months after the -600. Airlines clearly knew the ER was co
90 CHRISBA777ER : We don't link to them online or publish them to the public But you can buy a copy if you like - only US$480.
91 AirlineCritic : Indeed. Its my favorite aircraft, too. Quiet, comfortable, and in the LH config, clean & stylish.
92 Shanxz : Looks like it's Embraer indeed, which he doesn't ever want to call again:
93 Ikramerica : If you are going to bring up history, it's important to deliver all the facts. First, at launch in 2000, the GE-94 wasn't even in service yet. The 77
94 NicoEDDF : And the other way round, then?
95 Andaman : Thats new but makes sense, thinking SIN and KUL they have given up. But do they really have payload restriction on HEL-BKK, now served with MD-11, ne
96 CHRISBA777ER : SIN would be a natural idea for a re-start if they got them - and HEL-BKK cannot be done non-stop with an A333, surely? Do you mean A343 or are they
97 Babybus : The Arab world is a funny old place. This rant by Al-Bakr was probably more due to some percieved snub by Airbus over some very trivial matter ( somet
98 Andaman : At least their timetable shows A333 non-stop on HEL-BKK (4272nm) next spring, when all MD-11's are gone.
99 PVG : The other thing that we forget to mention is that LH is the flag carrier for the largest and wealthiest nation in Europe, which also is an export pow
100 SeaBosDca : HEL-BKK should be no problem at all with a 233 t A333, although they shouldn't expect to carry much if any cargo.
101 AirlineCritic : How much do you follow the European airline market? There's plenty of competition, and major international airlines like LH or BA have significant co
102 ArabAirX : Unless I missed it on the thread above (as I havent checked all posts), but isnt LH in receipt of fuel payments from Airbus for the A340600 because of
103 Zeke : Well the fact is CX opened the HKG-NYC-HKG route up with the A346 and flew that route daily, becoming the first airline to link the three major banki
104 NYC777 : Sure the A346 fuel costs will be smaller with oil at $40 to $50 but the 773ER is even smaller all things being equal. I think that the whole point. I
105 AF022 : Any details available?
106 Icaro : I think they are with Hainan Airlines, but sure not with IB. Regards
107 Post contains links Khobar : I don't know if LH is getting subsidies, but it might have to do with the following: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...on-a340-as-777-stretches-
108 Scbriml : Yes, at one point Airbus suggested that paying a "fuel burn penalty" to airlines might be a way to combat the 77W's superior fuel burn when the two p
109 ArabAirX : Emirates would disagree - I dont have the article to hand but back when they dropped the A340-600 order, part of it was down to what Emirates said wa
110 Alessandro : Or the Chinese ARJ?
111 XT6Wagon : Other customers are not happy at all. EK told Airbus to stick the A346 where it hurts. Part due to the manditory HGW on the later frames, and in part
112 AA777223 : I am curious, what was so negative about the HGW package? I have never heard bad commentary on this sort of development on any aircraft. I now typica
113 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : Continental was flying non-stop HKG-NYC-HKG with their 772ER's prior to CX operations with the A346. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...sis-polar
114 Khobar : Aren't subsidies illegal? LOL. If so, it's hardly surprising you'd not find a specific admission. On the other hand, we don't see a whole slew of A34
115 PVG : it has nothing to with nationality. It has to do with convenience, the fact that LH is a well run airline providing good service in the front, and pr
116 Zeke : CO was not daily, as far as I remember they even stopped flying the route in 2003 for a while due to low demand. CX first flew the direct polar route
117 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : The Flight article quoted indicates the CO service was daily. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...sis-polar-services-bear-fruit.html As does this
118 Post contains links STT757 : " target=_blank>http://www.asiatraveltips.com/travel...l.htm CO's EWR-HKG was launched as a daily service, you can read CO's own press release here:
119 Aerokiwi : Um, have you been paying attention at all? Is there anything that would convince you that a customer of the A340-600 was not happy with the type? If
120 Post contains links Zeke : The flight article appears to be incorrect, a CO system timetable from Dec 2001, 4 times a week (Dec is the busy period). http://www.airlinetimetable
121 LACA773 : How does China Eastern do with the 346 out of LAX?
122 Astuteman : It will. Airbus in their 2007 GMF list fuel as 35% of the overall cost of an aircraft and depreciaton as 10%. Back when these airlines were buying A3
123 XT6Wagon : It added as much OEW as it increased the payload. So 50% of the "improvement" in MTOW ended up in structure, not capacity. Which is flat terrible in
124 JoKeR : No need to ditch them , they can just ram them into a wall... oh but wait, they've done that already!
125 Raggi : Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big difference in operating NYC-HKG daily or four-five times a week when we're discussing aircraft performance? C
126 Cloudyapple : When oil was on a rising trend towards the $140 peak with a $200 projection, it tipped the balance towards the B77W when one is calculating the life
127 JerseyFlyer : I thought EK had demanded the HGW enhancement as a pre-condition for its order
128 AirlineCritic : Yes, but it may not make sense to pay $2 to save $1. This quote reminds me of the SAS thread where people suggested that SAS should sell its 346s and
129 AustrianZRH : When has SK bought A346s? I completely missed that one, thought they only had A343s...
130 AirlineCritic : Sorry, my mistake. I meant 343s.
131 STT757 : CO launched EWR-HKG in February 2001 as a daily nonstop, the reason why the December 2001 timetable shows a reduced frequency (even as you point out
132 SeaBosDca : Not particularly. DL, EK, and AC are enjoying success with 77Ls on a broad variety of missions. Because the 77L is not handicapped by severe excess O
133 SEPilot : London. I think you miss the point. Unless fuel costs are a negligible part of operating costs, lower fuel consumption will always be a plus. $140/ba
134 AF022 : What are the benefits of the HGW? More range perhaps?
135 ArabAirX : Except that the fuel bills are lower, overall operational costs compared to the A345 are lower too - like the A340-600/777-300ER, the 777-200LR certa
136 Ikramerica : On ULH missions, they are both wasteful. But on shorter long haul missions, the 77L has a clear edge, so much so that people are buying new 77Ls and
137 XT6Wagon : Most HGW mods are for more payload on normal routes, and to open some new routes that were just past the impossible line before. This is the same, on
138 SeaBosDca : This was ultimately the fate of the 747SP. The good news for fans of such types is that VIP birds tend to stay in service for many years -- just look
139 Ikramerica : Yes, I think that the A345 will end up like the majority of 747SPs, but much sooner. Private hands. It is logically the replacement for that aircraft
140 SEPilot : I think that the A346 would have done pretty well had it not been outclassed so thoroughly by the 77W, which from what Ikramerica said, came as a tot
141 ArabAirX : I know that that doesnt ring true here at Emirates. The number-crunchers far and away prefer the 777-200LR over the A340-500, regardless of mission p
142 Antskip : I have flown the EK A345 and various B777's (not the LR, unfortunately), and my very personal view is that the A345 is beautiful from the outside,; i
143 Aerokiwi : He/she did...
144 Ikramerica : i think that's the general concensus, though I understand the 77L is a bit louder way toward the back of the plane than the 77E, and the A345 is loud
145 2707200X : The A340 NG is being slammed by everyone.
146 OldAeroGuy : If that's the case, then Zeke's statement below is wrong on another count. CO added non-stop HKG-EWR while it was flying non-stop EWR-LHR. CX was fly
147 STT757 : CO was flying to LGW when they launched EWR-HKG in 2001, LHR is a recent addition.
148 Swallow : The Government of Oman is said to have bought one of the ex-IT 345s. It may replace the 747SP in their fleet.
149 XT6Wagon : It was a very badly done update of a fine but older plane. Imagine if you stuck new engines and gave a wing root extention to a 767... then changed n
150 SEPilot : I'm curious as to how you define "older", since when the A340NG was developed there had been only one totally new plane developed since the original
151 JerseyFlyer : Does anyone know why Airbus standardised on the A 340 500 / 600 HGW package rather than offering it as an option for only those airlines that really
152 Glareskin : So far the analysis of a group of Airline president wannabees Now my opinion as a passenger. For the looks I prefer the A345 as the powerhouse and the
153 Astuteman : For all the "slamming", the aviation world would sure be a sadder place without the A340's.... Rgds
154 Ikramerica : Well, look at it this way. The "favorite" status seems to have come at a cost, that of efficiency. Many of the factors that make the 767 and A340 cus
155 OldAeroGuy : True, but you were still only a train/tube ride away from "The City".
156 Post contains links Zeke : From memory CX started flying direct to NYC DAILY in late 1996, and did the first non-stop flight in 1998. The 346 did change the game, it allowed fo
157 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : Was the CX 747 NYC - Hong Kong non-stop flight a regularly scheduled service or a one off demonstration? If you are going to count direct flights (no
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