Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
No Cabin Dividers On US Carriers - Why?  
User currently offlineTravelsUK From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 134 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10508 times:

I have recently had the 'pleasure' of flying a number of domestic US flights in economy (coach) and none of the flights on both AA and DL featured a curtained cabin divider between the differing classes. I assume that this is due to some absurd, and no doubt archaic, security reason which if that is the case how does removing a curtain or cabin divider improve security onboard the aircraft?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 650 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10497 times:

The removal of curtains occurred following the September 11th attacks. The idea here is that the absence of curtains will give the flight attendants a clear view of the entire aircraft. This way they will be able to spot suspicious activity sooner if a possible hijacker is heading toward the cockpit..

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10468 times:

Actualy curtains are back at some airlines such as United - they just are much thinner and allow somewhat decent view thru them.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10467 times:



Quoting TravelsUK (Thread starter):
I assume that this is due to some absurd, and no doubt archaic, security reason which if that is the case how does removing a curtain or cabin divider improve security onboard the aircraft?

And I'd hardly call providing a clear sight picture down the aircraft an "absurd and archaic" procedure.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 650 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10412 times:

Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 3):
And I'd hardly call providing a clear sight picture down the aircraft an "absurd and archaic" procedure.

Agreed!

I also don't think that a procedure which could possibly save the lives of hundreds, if not thousands, of people is "absurd or archaic."

[Edited 2009-03-18 11:09:16]

User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10385 times:

Completely absurd! The idea that it allows you to have a clear sight on the whole aircraft only works if all the galleys and lavs are at the front and back of the plane. So anything with these in the centre (i.e all widebodies, plus the MD-80 and the 757) its completely redudundant.

Just look at this vid to see what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmHTW3zoNSo&feature=related

However, there is something you can do with curtains. Rather radically you are able to open them whenever you need without any major hassle and thus have a clear sight Big grin


User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10376 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Curtains are also back on some US flights. On March 8 there was a curtain between F and the main cabin on US855 MCO-DCA.

User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10374 times:



Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 3):
And I'd hardly call providing a clear sight picture down the aircraft an "absurd and archaic" procedure.

No either would I, however would cctv not be better. I mean I have flown in economy on an AA 767 and been seated in the first row. There were some people across the aisle from me who seamed to spend most of the flight standing in the aisle so that they would see what business class pax were getting to eat, what their seats were like etc. If you were seated in the last few rows in business you must of felt like you were in a zoo.

Alex


User currently offlineTravelsUK From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10305 times:

I retract the 'absurd and arcahic' statement now that I have the answer to my question, although I am curious still as to why therefore this rule was not imposed on other carriers operating into the US post 9/11 as I do not reacll seeing this on BA, AF or LH for example.

[Edited 2009-03-18 11:20:23]

User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10305 times:



Quoting Richcandy (Reply 7):
No either would I, however would cctv not be better.

It's easy to be an "armchair analyst" but CCTV adds additional weight, wiring.. and quite frankly, something else to spare for and repair (because it will break). Removing curtains seemed to be a very reasonable procedure.

It's just a curtain. Heaven forbid the people in Y can actually see the people in FC or BC.  Smile



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 650 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10242 times:

Let's face it, the airline industry is in a different place now. A few Business Class "watchers" is the least of our problems.

[Edited 2009-03-18 11:11:27]

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10109 times:

Some airlines have put in new cabin dividers but they are using lighter, less opague materials. It's also about weight reduction - not just security.

User currently offlineMauiman31 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9808 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 10):
A few Business Class "watchers" is the least of our problems.

Agree. And safety first. But, I do wish AA would bring back some version of a curtain divider on the 767's. I feel grateful and blessed to be able to enjoy the front cabin seats and service on a long haul. But. . . o.k. just me -- here's my thing . . . I don't mind being "watched" nor do I want to restrict economy passengers from daring to plant a toe in FC cabin. Am not a FC snob. (I sit in back plenty of times on work trips) And many folks choose to sit in Y and could very well be up front if they really wanted to. But, I do feel kind of guilty though when I settling in with my comforter, pillow and flat bed seat for a lovely snooze on the 7.5 hours back from HNL and look back to see a longing, uncomfortable or disgusted look from a fellow Y pax. Our last trip outbound from DFW to HNL - when the dessert cart came down the aisle - a little guy about 3-4 yo - yelled from the first row of Y -- "Mommie I want some ice cream, Mommie! etc. etc."
We felt sorry for him and I asked the FA if I could give him a sundae - he laughed and said -"do you want to start a riot?" A curtain pulled -- perhaps a happier Mom in Y.  Smile


User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9610 times:



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 10):
Let's face it, the airline industry is in a different place now. A few Business Class "watchers" is the least of our problems.

Yeah, preventing hijackings is a lot more important than the disgusting slobs in economy being able to see the royalty in first class.  Smile I'm joking of course. On 9/11, the F/As in economy had no idea what was going on towards the front of the aircraft and the passengers in coach also had no idea. The coach passengers on AA11 even thought there was a medical emergency going on in first class. They had no idea the pilots had been stabbed. Now, if the F/A in the back sees a scuffle going on in the front of the aircraft they can alert the flight deck and hopefully the passengers in economy who might not have seen the whats going on had there been a curtain will now intervene.

In regards to why do foreign carriers have curtains, the US has much stricter security rules. On foreign airlines the flight deck doors are open a lot more and from what Ive seen if the F/A wants to chat with the pilot they'll just open the door and stand there and chat. In the U.S. if the flight deck door ever needs to be opened a F/A will push a cart across the aisle and the F/As will risk their lives if they need to to prevent anyone from getting into the flight deck.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

IIRC, the last time I flew on AS, their curtains were also the see-through type.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25457 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9282 times:



Quoting TravelsUK (Reply 8):
I am curious still as to why therefore this rule was not imposed on other carriers operating into the US post 9/11 as I do not reacll seeing this on BA, AF or LH for example.

I doubt the U.S. government would have legal jurisdiction to require that BA, AF or LH remove curtains or cabin dividers on their aircraft operating to the U.S. International treaties normally state that the regulations of the airline's own government apply, and such rules are accepted reciprocally by the government at the other end of the route.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8903 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

DL has curtains on all their planes - they're blue mesh - clear enough that there's the line of sight, but enough to create some semblance of a barrier.

On some NW narrowbodies, they have a little rope that they use to separate F from Y.


User currently offlineDavid21487 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9155 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 21):
DL has curtains on all their planes - they're blue mesh - clear enough that there's the line of sight, but enough to create some semblance of a barrier.

Yeah, the curtains that close off the galleys and crew rest areas are regular curtains, but the cabin dividers are the blue-mesh ones that you can see through.



-- Step! Jump! Slide! --
User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9069 times:

I wouldn't say all US Carriers. I know Continental has curtains on all their planes thou they are blue mesh material. I have taken hundreds of flights on Continental and can't recall the last time I saw someone from coach go through the curtain when it is closed. So it is doing its job. Also I saw them on my Alaska flights.


Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8927 times:

Ive flown plenty of Euro flights that have not divider- for that matter many dont even offer a different seat, ie AF. Please dont insult my country and call out security policies "absurd"


Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
User currently offlineRafflesking From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8901 times:

VX has hard plastic translucent dividers separating the classes.

User currently offlineN776AU From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9059 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Actualy curtains are back at some airlines such as United - they just are much thinner and allow somewhat decent view thru them.

That was the case on Delta flight 1096 last Sunday. It was a thin one, and semi-transparent. I was surprised to see it.



Careful, Doors Are Closing And Will Not Reopen. Please Wait For The Next Train
User currently offlineFlyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8969 times:



Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 5):
Completely absurd! The idea that it allows you to have a clear sight on the whole aircraft only works if all the galleys and lavs are at the front and back of the plane

You fail to take into account that fa's are actually in the aisle during service.. so a simple glance forward gives the fa's a CLEAR view towards the cockpit door on narrowbody a/c.

On AA, a mesh-type curtian is currently being installed on 757 and will follow on other a/cs as well..
I do believe also it is installed on several md80s as a "test prototype"
It has been well received by pax and fa's alike.

AA ORD


User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8456 times:



Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 9):
It's easy to be an "armchair analyst" but CCTV adds additional weight, wiring.. and quite frankly, something else to spare for and repair (because it will break).

If an airline like JetBlue, a low cost carrier, has CCTV in all of its planes (A320 for sure, E190 I'm fairly certain it has CCTV installed) Then I'm led to believe that the additional weight, wiring, and the "downtime" costs are all "neglegable" in the grander scheme of things.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8386 times:

Another reason for the changes (aside from security) is that the curtains and new dividers are lighter. In the meteoric rise of the price of fuel airlines were looking to save pounds anywhere they could.

25 AlitaliaDC10 : I also wondered what carriers like UA and NW did on their 744s did between cabins - did just the 'bulkheads' remain between the cabins? Did they do an
26 United1 : Up until a year ago all the curtains between cabins on the wide bodies were removed, the bulkheads remained intact. UA has started (they might be fin
27 Post contains links and images UAL757 : He isn't talking about bulkheads, he is talking about curtains separating cabins. I don't think VX has a mesh curtain, but I may be wrong... AS and U
28 PanHAM : So what is the message actually from this? The US do not trust their TSA screening procedure at the airports, right? Or, in other words, they wear a b
29 TravelsUK : Excuse me! I have no intention of insulting anyones country and I refer to previous replies as I did not know the reason for this 'rule' and retracte
30 PanHAM : A lot of your fellow Americans do that as well. I was just reading an article about freight screening before loading on passenger aircraft. OK, not t
31 Smi0006 : As the Australian Comedian Pam Ann Put it after weaving her way through the beaded curtain to the flight deck; "We don't do doors, if they are going t
32 TFFIP : Helps crew keep a view of the whole cabin especially those (increasing number) of airlines that operate with minimum legal requirement of flight atten
33 Lexy : Doesn't the CRJ-900 have a curtain that divides the First Class from the Economy Class? I think it does.
34 DUALRATED : It's so the air marshal has a clear shot from fron to rear and vise virsa.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No Business Class On US Domestic Flights? posted Sat Jan 27 2007 18:22:26 by 8herveg
Why No 747-300's For US Carriers posted Mon Jan 12 2004 16:19:38 by CRJ'sRule
IFE On US Carriers posted Sat Jan 17 2009 05:35:45 by Captaink
Inflight (no)service For Y On US&UK Based Airlines posted Wed Oct 18 2006 06:59:50 by A3
Seat Change On US Airways ~ WHY? posted Fri Aug 11 2006 19:47:36 by N174UA
Involuntary Bumps On US Carriers Have Increased posted Fri Aug 4 2006 23:02:23 by Nonrevman
Foreign F/A On US Carriers posted Fri Aug 4 2006 04:48:32 by Centrair
CH9 On US Flights Why Not Australia? posted Tue Aug 3 2004 10:50:01 by Malb777
In Flight Food: Only Nasty On US Carriers? posted Mon Sep 15 2003 22:35:45 by DTW_Steve
Cockpit Jumpseat On US Carriers posted Sat Aug 3 2002 17:21:22 by Tallguy14