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Midwest Ends Pilot Talks  
User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 509 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6539 times:

http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/41437037.html Looks like its going to be a Republic/Skywest airline now.


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 6466 times:

Wow this is very disappointing.. I can't believe YX is just giving up on it's former employees like this.. I would look for someone to take the fall for this big time, as this is nearly inexcusable.. Here we are in MKE wondering why our economy is so bad.. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHY! YX IS GIVING AWAY MKE's JOBS!!! Sorry, haha but I don't like this  Smile


If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 6421 times:

Sadly, this is not surprising at all. I don't give YX basically YX operated by Republic and Skywest more than a year.


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

I guess more people out of work...  Sad
With RAH holding stake in YX, could this mean they can say Buh-Bye to Skywest CRJ flying and take all the flying for themselves for YX? If they were to do this could RAH make a good living off of doing this? I mean it would be more work and flying for them. Would this even survive? Just wondering.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6199 times:
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Not surprised at all. Soon enough YX will be a paper airline. They used to be such a good company.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6198 times:

Gee, who didn't see this coming once the 717's started going away...

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4257 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6167 times:

My thoughts on this are that the AirTran deal doesn't look so bad now. YX had such a strong desire not to sell out to AirTran that they ended up accepting the deal with NW being a financial interest. Ever since then, it seems like management has used NW style tactics at YX, for the worse. As much as we hated it at the time, boy am I glad that ZW did not win the YX flying when the RFP came out. The AirTran deal would likely have kept all the YX jobs around.

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 3):
With RAH holding stake in YX, could this mean they can say Buh-Bye to Skywest CRJ flying and take all the flying for themselves for YX? If they were to do this could RAH make a good living off of doing this? I mean it would be more work and flying for them. Would this even survive? Just wondering.

One thing puzzles and troubles me about the whole Republic thing. It seems like Republic, more than any regional airline, is responsible for costing many mainline pilots Jobs. The 170's at US? They used to be flown by mainline pilots on the mainline certificate. 170's at YX? Replaced mainline YX flying and cost many Good pilots jobs in exchange for the SJS kids. As much as Bryan Bedford has built the company up from nothing, some of the costs in doing so really trouble me, and if this keeps up, you wonder how much longer before the pilots at Republic earn the Scab label. They have enabled this whole thing, and may have hurt only themselves in the long run with the way the industry is trending.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/mil...ee/stories/2006/12/11/daily21.html

December 13, 2006

"The corporate parent of Midwest Airlines Inc. early Wednesday said it has rejected a $290 million buyout offer from AirTran Airways Inc. that could have sweeping changes on Midwest's operations in Milwaukee and across the country.

A combination would also save about $60 million a year in expenses, AirTran said. AirTran hopes to complete the transaction in the first quarter of 2007.

AirTran offered $11.25 per share for Midwest in a cash and stock transaction. Shares of Midwest (AMEX: MEH) closed at $9.08 Tuesday, but closed up $2.02, or more than 22 percent, at $11.10 Wednesday.

The offer represents a 37 percent premium to the 30-day average closing price and an 89 percent premium to the six-month average closing price for Midwest's common stock, prior to Oct. 20.

Midwest sent a response to AirTrain chairman and CEO Joseph Leonard on Dec. 6 stating that the proposed merger "would not be in the best interests of the company (Midwest), our shareholders and other stakeholders, including customers, employees and the communities we serve," according to a letter released by Midwest that was signed by Timothy Hoeksema, Midwest's chairman, CEO and president."

Great job, idiots!!


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25077 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6054 times:
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Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
Great job, idiots!!

To be fair, the shareholders did better from the ultimate TPG offer.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22865 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6008 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 6):
The 170's at US? They used to be flown by mainline pilots on the mainline certificate. 170's at YX? Replaced mainline YX flying and cost many Good pilots jobs in exchange for the SJS kids.

That's one way of looking at it. Another, though, is that the choices were RW doing the flying or no one doing the flying. If those were the choices, then RW doesn't look so bad. It's better for SOMEONE to be employed (even if a mainline pilot would be preferable to the RW pilot) than for no one to be employed.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMKENut From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5989 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
Great job, idiots!!

Sorry but your point is moot. AirTran has said on several occasions that they are soooooo happy the merger never happened. If it did, they would be in chapter 11 reorg right now. Plus AirTran forced a sale to the highest bidder... They never imagined that anyone else would bid on Midwest. Ultimately, the shareholders won. Stakeholders were never considered on either side, sorry to say. I was a shareholder and I agreed the TPG all cash deal was far superior to AirTran's cash and stock deal.


User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5961 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 6):
wonder how much longer before the pilots at Republic earn the Scab label.

I wouldn't go that far. What alot of people don't under stand (and I know I am going to get flamed for this) is that it is mainline management downsizing and giving all their flying to regional. If a regional offers a good deal then mainline is going to take the bait. US gave the flying to RW. UA gave the flying to S5. Mainline turns to regional to do the dirty work. Regional need employees to pick up the slack. I hate to see people lose their job but that is what is happening at most mainline carriers. Sad but ture.


User currently offlineAATripleseven From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

So much for "saving the cookie."

http://www.savethecookie.com/


User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

Where does it say anywhere that Midwest has ended the pilot talks? All the article says is that they have stopped the process of bringing on the E170's which was actually stopped over a month ago. Now it has just been made public. And remember TPG doesn't care about the employees. This isn't anyone inside YX making these types of decisions anymore.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
Great job, idiots!!

Yeah you're right, $11.25 in cash and stock is so much better than $17.00 cash. I suppose they should have taken the first offer of, what was it, $4.00. As already stated even AirTran admits that had that deal gone through the combined company would have been in trouble and I challenge anyone to show me some proof that all the Midwest people would still have jobs as so many like to say. All that is ancient history now and really has no bearing on what is going on now.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5653 times:



Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 13):
$11.25 in cash and stock is so much better than $17.00 cash. I suppose they should have taken the first offer of, what was it, $4.00. As already stated even AirTran admits that had that deal gone through the combined company would have been in trouble and I challenge anyone to show me some proof that all the Midwest people would still have jobs as so many like to say. All that is ancient history now and really has no bearing on what is going on now.

That's a fair viewpoint and to be honest I did not recall they got a superior bid afterwards. It seemed shady if you ask me. NW keeping them alive as a decoy of sorts... it just seems like FL would have provided a more secure future. Not easy, but better. But it pleases me that the shareholders did not get entirely screwed (at least immediately) by the YX board. It was becoming a total "Gordon Gekko" moment over there, where the YX BOD needed a speech.

With DL dropping its fleet size, we will see FL looking quite healthy, and who knows, YX might survive in some form.


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

I called this a long long time ago. I have experienced a job loss due to outsourcing. I feel that TPG did not negoiate in good faith, this is what they wanted all along a virtual airline. While I feel sad for the YX pilots and employees losing their jobs, a line in the sand had to be drawn. I usually do not side with union employees but I feel that tehy had no altenative.

Let s go FL and finish off YX and then we can have an adopted hometown airline. I will not sell nor will I fly with that I basicaaly feel are scab employees.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineAsuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

Sucks. More and more those decent, well-paying flying jobs are slowly going away in favor of guys willing to fly 75% of the equipment for 50% of the pay. Makes me glad I didn't jump right into flying for a regional last year when I go my commercial.

User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5066 times:



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 16):
More and more those decent, well-paying flying jobs are slowly going away in favor of guys willing to fly 75% of the equipment for 50% of the pay

This is the same as the local factory worker loosing thier jobs to people in Mexico and overseas for .50 an hour and no benefits.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22865 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4915 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
But it pleases me that the shareholders did not get entirely screwed (at least immediately) by the YX board. It was becoming a total "Gordon Gekko" moment over there, where the YX BOD needed a speech.

In the airline industry especially, I'd definitely prefer all-cash to cash and stock even if the all-cash offer was a little bit lower. The shareholders made off like bandits.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4861 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
The shareholders made off like bandits

Yes the did. Tim did what he was supposed to do and that was get the most for the shareholders. He did that at the cost of TPG and NWA. I would really like to know if TPG regrets this transaction.

Tim did screw over the Stakeholders like the City of Milwaukee, State of Wisconsin and the passengers of MKE.

Anyway it is sad to see YX end up like this. I do know a couple of people at YX that work the gate area. I did wish the one I seen good luck the last time I flew YX whoops I mean OO and RW to EWR and LGA respectively.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22865 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4822 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 19):
Tim did screw over the Stakeholders like the City of Milwaukee, State of Wisconsin and the passengers of MKE.

Did he? Would FL have kept the hub, or would it have wound up like their ill-fated growth attempts in the likes of DFW and MDW?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4814 times:



Quoting MKENut (Reply 10):
Sorry but your point is moot. AirTran has said on several occasions that they are soooooo happy the merger never happened. If it did, they would be in chapter 11 reorg right now.

Why would AirTran be in Chapter 11 if they purchased Midwest? (just a question)



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4756 times:



Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 13):
Where does it say anywhere that Midwest has ended the pilot talks?

Funny, the information retention on this board is very low. The article is just a public announcement of what has been said before.

Midwest stopped certifying work on the 170 aircraft because continuing to do so would result in some items having to be done over again. The company is at the point where, without an agreement, they can not continue because to do so would mean the jets have to come onto the property at a specific time. They are not going to do that without a contract for them.

Speaking of contract, a federal mediator is now involved and that should get everyone off dead center.

Now, resume you normal speculation.


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4748 times:



Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 21):
Why would AirTran be in Chapter 11 if they purchased Midwest? (just a question)

Because of the high debt load FL would have been saddled with.

Did he? Would FL have kept the hub, or would it have wound up like their ill-fated growth attempts in the likes of DFW and MDW?
FL did give a presentation explaining the growth they were planning, either that of the Red Tail from up nort would have stepped up in MKE and the city would have benefited form this. Of course this was all before Oil went through the roof.

On a side note even though YX looks finished as a mainline carrier is there the remote possibility that YX could acquire 737's to replace 717's?? or will DL/NW step up and take all of the west coast and leisure markets from YX?

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4679 times:
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Its sad to see what is happening. I do not give much hope for YX's long term future.  Sad
This will be hard on the flight crews. Sadly, the consolodation has just begun.

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 23):
Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 21):
Why would AirTran be in Chapter 11 if they purchased Midwest? (just a question)

Because of the high debt load FL would have been saddled with.

 checkmark  Since the deal did not go through, it left FL with more than ideal cash... right when it became imperitive to have cash!

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Would FL have kept the hub, or would it have wound up like their ill-fated growth attempts in the likes of DFW and MDW?

FL has built up MKE service. I expect their presence to put continued pressure onto Midwest.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 22):
Speaking of contract, a federal mediator is now involved and that should get everyone off dead center.

The mediator cannot force YX to bring the aircraft back onto mainline.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
25 Sideflare75 : I understand what the article is saying. I'm asking where in this article or anywhere else for that matter does it say that Midwest has stopped talki
26 TVNWZ : I know that. But, the mediator can help get the talks going. That is why they exist. If the pilots won't talk with the help of a mediator, they get w
27 MKE22 : Not exactly.. For people in MKE it is, but the jobs are staying in the US..
28 Legacytravel : My whole point is that the jobs were outsourced to a lower wage scale elsewhere, wether it is in the US or or overseas. It does erode a standard of l
29 TVNWZ : The standard of living should be different for a pilot of a 717 as it compares to an E-170. The amount is the hangup.
30 Cubsrule : If YX folds and NW comes in and runs mainline to places like LGA and DCA, then what happens? FL isn't flying IND-LGA...
31 Legacytravel : I agree with you, but no matter how you slice it they are outsourcing the work. That being said personal experience has taught me the the company mor
32 N917me : The reporter who wrote this article is very good at writing negative stories about YX. This "news flash" was sent out a while ago. Must be a slow news
33 Legacytravel : Is TPG offerering a fair wage or are they low balling the union. Like I said I am for the most part anti union. However there does come a time when o
34 Cubsrule : There's a separate question: what is a "fair wage?" If we take the "fair wage" for YX pilots flying the 170 to be 75% of what YX pilots make-- a reas
35 Josh32121 : Has anyone considered the possibility that DL might buy what is left of YX to bolster their MKE market positiong further (beyond what NW and YX had) t
36 Legacytravel : well we can make this real simple. As an example if there are 20 % less seats on a E 170 than YX should work for the 20% less wage than the 717 rate.
37 Post contains links Mariner : While David Bonderman of TPG is certainly clever - a self-made billionaire - he is not infallible. He led TPG to a $1.3 billion loss in Washington Mut
38 UAL777 : $105 a year means you will net less than 100K a year after taxes. NOT worth it!
39 Enilria : In a few years a little boy will be in a Milwaukee grocery and this will be the conversation: Little Boy: "Daddy, these frozen Midwest Airlines choco
40 Post contains links Mariner : And look'ee here - Republic has just bought 50% of Mokulele and will appoint their own interim CEO: http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...le/2009031
41 JBo : I think you said this before, but never provided a source, so: Where is your source for Northwest's intentions to take over YX as a whole? Also, Delt
42 Legacytravel : That I can agree with. YX wil not survive without mainline crews and aircraft. The E170 is ok but if the airfares are the same and it is a difference
43 Stratoduck : and that's why regional jet flying was outsourced. $100,000 annually might not be worth it to you, but i would jump at the chance to make that right
44 UAL777 : If it is "in house" and on one seniority list with the major parent I agree.
45 SNCntry32 : The rumor that they want to by Compass Airlines always cracks me up since RAH is just giving the money away...
46 Almbluzman : bottom line is that midwest is NOT the airline it once was...nor will it ever be again. it's unfortunate for all of the people who still work there an
47 Toltommy : DL doesn't need to buy aanything. They own 49% of basically nothing. They could shift excess regional capacity into MKE tomorrow if they wanted. Says
48 UAL777 : I misread the post. I know all about mainline guys looking down their noses at the RJs. They need to take it back ASAP! The loosening of scope has be
49 Cubsrule : I tend to agree. That's a significant pay cut, though, which unions tend not to like-- regardless of whether it's necessary.
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