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LH To Keep Current Business Class On A380  
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4704 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9815 times:

According to AeroInternational, a reputable German airline magazine, LH has ordered Recaro CL6510 business class seats for the A380. I looked up Recaro's website and what did I see? These are exactly the same seats as those which are currently installed on LH's longhaul fleet, which means angled flat.

http://www.recaro-as.com/ras/product...range/full-flat/cl-6510/index.html

I hadn't expected them to put these relatively outdated seats on their new flagship.
What's your opinion?


A342


Exceptions confirm the rule.
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9743 times:



Quoting A342 (Thread starter):
I hadn't expected them to put these relatively outdated seats on their new flagship.
What's your opinion?

As a regular LH long haul customer I must say I'm happy with the product, including the seats. Food is fine, service is fine, I can sleep, I can work. The only thing I miss since Boeing connexion is dead is Internet access when I want to work.

If the A380 offers me even less noise than a A340 I will be very happy, regardless of fancy or outdated seats.

But that's only me.


User currently offlineStargold From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9708 times:

They can still keep the same seats but allow them to go fully horizontal, like they do on the QR 77L, QF A380, SA J etc.

Fundamentally the seat is very good, except for the angled lie flat. So if they keep the same seats but allow full recline into horizontal, that would be not a bad solution at all.


User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9710 times:
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Quoting GBan (Reply 1):
Food is fine, service is fine

The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you. There definitely are "better ways to fly"...


User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1098 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9601 times:



Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you. There definitely are "better ways to fly"...

I have to politely disagree, if you have the choice, would you fly on UA or LH across the pond?

Dont forget LH is one of the most profitable airline in the world, despite the financial crisis, a well managed airline offering a decent product is the way forward. (There is no point to offer very good service while losing money, if they are to survive)



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9582 times:
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Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 4):
UA or LH across the pond

Neither. There are a plenty others.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9514 times:
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Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 4):
If you have the choice, would you fly on UA or LH across the pond?

I usually take LH because they are more convenient (direct service from SEA), but if I am traveling between FRA and SFO I book UA because I love the crews up front.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9430 times:



Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you

I have to disagree. I can only praise LH's crew for their wonderful hospitality.


User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9375 times:



Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality

Two things which I have NEVER experienced in a premium cabin on LH. Economy is another story.



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineJDAirCEO From Uruguay, joined Jan 2006, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9332 times:

Its strange everyone seems to believe LH's J seat is an ok product yet it is the same seat AA has. Granted I believe the product is behind the times but everyone flames AA for the terrible J seats...


An MD-80 is great... in first class
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9300 times:

While this is disappointing, it is not surprising considering that LH very recently finished refitting these seats to their fleet. At least they are a huge improvement over the long-haul business class seats LH were offering a few years ago.

User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9278 times:



Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you.

I have to agree with others in that I have never experienced this kind of service from LH.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDj1986 From Luxembourg, joined Apr 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9225 times:



Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you. There definitely are "better ways to fly"...

Well I rather have smaller portions and a finer cuisine a la LH. Compared to what UA and US offer where you can feed two people from one Business/Envoy meal but you get the same food in every second american steakhouse & seafood restaurant.



on strike! finally VC!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9210 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 11):
Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you.

I have to agree with others in that I have never experienced this kind of service from LH.

If that was the general impression of LH service they wouldn't be one of the most profitable and successful airlines in the world. I've had nothing but good experiences on LH.


User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9132 times:

Yes, the LH business seats are flat but not level to the floor. Your legs tuck under the seat in front of you, but not enough to bother me.

This whole levelness obsession is one of perception because most planes at cruise fly with a slight nose-up attitude, so give and take, you are basically level (ever try walking the length of a plane from tail to front?)

Seats that are not flat are what bothers be because I am a side sleeper.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9124 times:

Why do many of the major Euro carriers insist on maintaining inferior business class products when their North American and Asian legacy competitors are steadily moving to full-flat in J?


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9108 times:



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 14):
This whole levelness obsession is one of perception because most planes at cruise fly with a slight nose-up attitude, so give and take, you are basically level (ever try walking the length of a plane from tail to front?)

Just not true. The plane does not pitch 10 degrees up, and lying level is not the same as lying sloped. Lying level is noticeably better and more comfortable.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9061 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Lying level is noticeably better and more comfortable.

I do not disagree on this point. Regarding levelness, I did say "give and take" and "basically level" because I realise that it is not perfectly level at cruise.

However on a level bed, you are slightly tilted head down, and that is noticeable too.

Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 14):
. . . so give and take, you are basically level . . .

The seat angle may be felt by some, but I'll take it anytime over a cradle type seat. Example, FRA-JFK on business for me is always LH and not SQ.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4976 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9003 times:
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Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 4):
I have to politely disagree, if you have the choice, would you fly on UA or LH across the pond?

Believe it or not, if it's on the newly-refurbished UA 744/767s with the fully-flat bed J seats, I would actually take UA. Nothing beats a full-flat seat and I dare say the AVOD options on UA (the new systems) are better than what LH has on offer. If I can get much better sleep and have more entertainment options on UA, I wouldn't really care that much about any surly FA service which of course, is more prevalent on UA than on LH....


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8903 times:



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 17):
However on a level bed, you are slightly tilted head down, and that is noticeable too.

It is very, very slight, and with a pillow, it doesn't happen at all. On a sloped flat, my pants get pulled upward. Ouch. On a level bed, that doesn't happen. Having flown long trips on both a few times each, I arrived feeling much better after flying the AA and QF level F products instead of the various sloped flats I've been on.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8842 times:

Brand loyalty and a large captive market will let them get away with a slower introduction of an improved product.
A person with diverse travel needs whose home base is in Germany will benefit from being loyal to LH. The same applies to the Netherlans and KL, France and AF etc.

It will take a second strong player (ala VS for BA) to turn them into technology leaders.

DLP


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8758 times:

LH is in no need to brag with their seats like the usual suspects from the Middle East or far east asia.

They fill their seats and I believe that the majority of LH pax do not think like this:

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):
The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you. There definitely are "better ways to fly"...

 Yeah sure


User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8744 times:



Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 3):

The food portions are getting rediculously small, and unless you enjoy unattentive and unfriendly german hospitality, LH will be good enough for you. There definitely are "better ways to fly"...

Oh, thank you very much for your insight in german character sketches.
I do take that personal and I wonder why you think Germans are unattentive and unfriendly.

Cheers
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineTreeHillRavens From Malaysia, joined Jun 2007, 403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Quoting JDAirCEO (Reply 9):
Its strange everyone seems to believe LH's J seat is an ok product yet it is the same seat AA has. Granted I believe the product is behind the times but everyone flames AA for the terrible J seats...

I believe that's because the design of the seat is different. Both carriers advertise their long-haul J product to have 60" of seat pitch but for some reason, the new J on AA seems terrible tight and narrow. The angle of the seat is different too. Overall the LH long-haul J seat has more sophisticated design.

By the way, any news what kind of J seat AF is going to install on their 380 ?

[Edited 2009-03-19 00:50:54]

User currently offlineQantasistheway From Australia, joined May 2008, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8699 times:

Having spent 13 hours on a LH flight from SIN to FRA, in my opinion I think that the seat is rather flimsy. The cloth on it seems cheap, and the seat seems to slant more than similar products on other airlines. Service was fine, and food was okay, however the seat was not up to par with what you would expect from the worlds most profitable airline. The seat as well as the IFE just feels to cheap for me even if they are Recaro. Surely it wouldn't hurt to put in flat seats on the A380 at least.

25 SKAirbus : The problem with Lufthansa is that they are afraid of innovation with regards to seating. They didn't introduce PTVs in economy until relatively recen
26 Glareskin : I don't think you should take his comment personal. I appreciate LH a lot and can see the quality of the (C) cabin crews. At the same time there is a
27 Jfk777 : Was expecting a new J class on the A380 from LH, seems SWISS is getting all the new products in the Lufthansa group.
28 Caspritz78 : The alternative is an American airline with the fake service-smile and very privacy invading service.
29 Hardiwv : Oh dear...very bad news...LH product is indeed a level below as compared to top quality competition. Just look at QF new product in the A380...On the
30 ExSR : Absolutely right!! Profitable does not mean customer friendly. Hospitality? Have you ever tried an Asian carrier? That´s hospitality and friendlines
31 Post contains links Teme82 : Would this do as for LH's new business seat? http://www.patrick-lindon.com/p-ger/proj-thso.html
32 AA777223 : I'm going to have to say from my longhaul, J-class experiences on LH, I found the crew to be a bit...staid. Warmth and gentility weren't exactly on t
33 SKAirbus : Not quite British Airways has the best J class product in Europe... Swiss has a much better one on the way...
34 LXA340 : Regarding north american airlines, there would only be UA and AC to be offering a fully flat product for the time being and DL soon to come. Neverthe
35 Jfklucky777 : That looks extremely similar to EK's business but without the mini bar on top and in a different color scheme. Having flown JFK-FRA-JFK on LH in busi
36 SSTsomeday : Are these same seats already designed in such a way that they can be adjusted to horizontally flat positions, if the specific A/C pitch configuration
37 GBan : Thanks, finally I know why they are good enough for me I know what you are talking about, but in most cases where I have seen such a behaviour (in Ge
38 AABB777 : DL is currently offering a fully flat product on the 77Ls.
39 Ikramerica : I went to the product page at Recaro and no, it does not look that way. They are 60" pitch seats with molded shells that would prevent the bed from b
40 SQ_EK_freak : Out of complete curiosity, why? SQ don't have the cradle seats on the FRA-JFK sector, it's the SpaceBed which is angled lie-flat, similar to LH. Serv
41 Abrelosojos : What horrible news! You would have thought that this would have been a chance for LH to improve their shoddy cabin ... but no! = I am a regular LH cus
42 Ikramerica : I'm by no means a frequent J flyer, but my order of preference is level-flat, cradle, and lastly, sloped flat.
43 TheSonntag : Funny thing is, I have travelled a lot on many LCCs, and only once longhaul on Condor, but never on LH, and my impression was that when it comes to ai
44 Abrelosojos : = I am completely with you. I prefer an old-fashioned big cradle seat than a lie-flat. Of course, not all lie-flats are the same ... but in general,
45 Stargold : Everyone seems to be forgetting that it is not compulsory to have the slope-flat seats in slope-flat position. Any combination between the upright pos
46 ZKEOJ : I agree - I fly 3-4 LH long haul sectors a year, and have always been impressed. They never failed me! I mostly fly in Y, and again, LH has always be
47 Iainbhx : I've found most LH J-class crews to be fine, MUC crews being generally "friendlier" than FRA crews, but both are pretty decent and there's a consiste
48 Avek00 : UA, AC, and DL offer fully-flat products now, with CO to follow this fall. Debateable, but for premium longhaul travel, the seat is BY FAR the #1 con
49 Teme82 : AY will have that seat in their new business class, starting from A333's and later on A343's
50 Ikramerica : I think in J, you should be satisfied with asking politely and being treated very well when you do so (but obviously, there should be no discriminati
51 Nethkt : When you have a strong demand for business class seats like LH, you pretty much just keep the same service standard. You do not need to do something e
52 PlaneInsomniac : Well, enough has been said about this useless comment. As somebody who regularly flies LH as well as many other airlines short and long haul, all I h
53 Stitch : That description fits SQ quite well, yet I think they'll still be around in 3-5 years.
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