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Woman Leaves Newborn On Pacific Blue Flight  
User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8864 times:

BBC News is reporting that a women who gave birth on a Pacific Blue flight from Auckland, New Zealand to Samoa apparently left her baby in the waste container of the bathroom and left the airplane upon landing. Cleaners apparently found the baby an hour after landing. Scary, especially since the woman and the baby have now been reunited...

Full story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7952304.stm

Kleinsim

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8812 times:

1) Why was she flying when she was 9 months pregnant?
2) Why did she leave her baby on the plane?
3) Why was no one aware that she had given birth in the toilet?

4) I am perpelexed.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8733 times:



Quoting Kleinsim (Thread starter):
BBC News is reporting that a women who gave birth on a Pacific Blue flight from Auckland, New Zealand to Samoa apparently left her baby in the waste container of the bathroom and left the airplane upon landing. Cleaners apparently found the baby an hour after landing. Scary, especially since the woman and the baby have now been reunited...

Full story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7952304.stm

Kleinsim

My understanding was that the flight was FROM APW, Samoa TO AKL, New Zealand not the other way around as it was the New Zealand Customs Service that caught her.

Quoting Directorguy (Reply 1):
1) Why was she flying when she was 9 months pregnant?
2) Why did she leave her baby on the plane?
3) Why was no one aware that she had given birth in the toilet?

4) I am perpelexed.

Not that surprising if you are familiar with flights from APW...
to answer your questions,
1) She obvious didn't care about the baby so no worries about that from her point, however from an operational point of view, Pacific Blue (or rather Polynesian Blue a joint venture with Pacific Blue) employed a lot of connected people (cousins, brothers, sisters, family friends etc) and staff are known to turn a blind eye to various things or waive various things (carrying over from the days of Polynesian Airlines where most pax had an average of 40kg of luggage when the allowance was only 20kg and most passengers had at least 2 carryon bags when they were supposed to only have 1 and these were often overweight).
As for this passenger, as with many passengers from APW (has an obesity epidemic both in APW and in the Samoan and Pacific Island community in New Zealand) due to her size most likely it was hard to tell that she was pregnant. Let me put it another way... I know people who used to handle the Polynesian Air flights from APW (737) and they would more often than not have at least 6 if not a dozen or more passengers needing wheelchairs due to them being obese (we're talking about pax weighing 150-200kg+ (330-440lb) here. All I can say is that Air NZ tends to be much more careful about who actually gets onboard an aircraft!

2) Only she knows why she left it in the rubbish bin... have to be at least some mental issues there for someone to do such a thing.

3) Not sure what happened in her case, but Samoan's are well known for having large families (and physiologically have childbearing hips)...if she has previously popped out a few kids then it might not have been a big deal for her to give birth. Planes are noisy places and if the crew were busy and no-one noticed someone taking a while in the bathroom (you hear stories of women giving birth in the space of less than 20 minutes) then its quite possible. Also someone might have asked if she was alright and she may have just said something to get them to leave her alone. It may have been that no-one else used the bathroom after her.

4) You're perplexed? That makes 2 of us if not all of us here!



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineNomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8618 times:

So, someones attempts to kill a child and they give it right back to her.
I'd say the authorities were the ones with mental issues.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8484 times:



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 3):
So, someones attempts to kill a child and they give it right back to her.
I'd say the authorities were the ones with mental issues.

I agree! This is completely absurd!

Amazing that someone cold give irth in a toilet without anyone noticing!


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Its a sad story.

When reading about it in the local newspapers its raises even more questions.
Apparently the lady has been in surgery for most of yesterday indicating that it wasn't the smoothest of childbirths.
And the herald says the baby was found in the airport by a cleaner and not on the airplane itself.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10562608

I say she must have been in shock and not having a clue of what she was doing.
Forgetting your passport and being pale and bloody is not rational.

When we speak about these things it might be good to remember that quite a few babies are born premature. 36 weeks is Pac Blue cut off date and the woman might have been less than 36 weeks pregnant.
Air NZ had a tragic experience of this not to long ago when a woman went into labour and lost her baby on a flight between Auckland and Brisbane. She was 34 weeks pregnant.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineVHECA From Australia, joined May 2007, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6758 times:



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 3):
So, someones attempts to kill a child and they give it right back to her.
I'd say the authorities were the ones with mental issues.

Sorry nomad, but I do not think the intention was to KILL the child, but to ABANDON the child. To me, a difference, but still not an acceptable method of voiding any connection with the infant.

And yes, as stated, I too am perplexed!

Cheers

VHECA



Types Flown on - 312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,742,743,74C,752,762,AB4,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3583 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6507 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
PW (has an obesity epidemic both in APW and in the Samoan and Pacific Island community in New Zealand)

Obesity is to Samoans what wicked skinny models are to North America. In their culture it is extremely attractive to be very heavy. 120 seats sold, 60 SOB?



Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4256 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):

Thanks for putting things into context and perspective. It now makes sense that the woman was able to camouflage her pregnancy.
I hope we hear more details about this strange, strange incident. I'd love to know how it all ends.


User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

Having big families is also quite important in Samoan culture. There is a possibility that this woman already gave birth to a number of children hence that she was able to pop one out in the lavatory relatively easy whit out others notice anything. Freaky that she somehow cut the wire herself though.

There also is a possibility that this child is not from her husband and she fled to NZ as the day that she would give birth is coming nearer and nearer and the pressure was getting too much. Probably her live was in danger or she could not bear the disgrace. She must have not known how long she was pregnant exactly.

Not knowing how smart this woman is but maybe she didn't even know that she was pregnant is another guess.



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3969 times:



Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 9):
Not knowing how smart this woman is but maybe she didn't even know that she was pregnant is another guess.

She should be reminded every four weeks, shouldn't she?  Wink


User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3958 times:



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 10):
She should be reminded every four weeks, shouldn't she?

I think there are plenty of stories out there of people "accidentally" giving birth on the bathroom. Go there to, well, go, and out pops a baby. Though, yeah. Theoretically there are ways of telling that you are pregnant.

I've also heard numerous stories of people giving birth on board airplanes (albeit without abandoning the baby afterwards). So if you are flying from Canada to Mexico and give birth to a child in US Airspace is that child automatically, by US citizenship law, a US citizen?  scratchchin 

Simon


User currently offlineABC9 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3914 times:



Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 9):
There also is a possibility that this child is not from her husband and she fled to NZ as the day that she would give birth is coming nearer and nearer and the pressure was getting too much. Probably her live was in danger or she could not bear the disgrace. She must have not known how long she was pregnant exactly.

Mere speculation and conjecture unless you can provide a source for these statements


User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1908 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3388 times:
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CNN reports some new info about the case, apparently the mom was scared to face her family being pregnant "unmarried" It's a real shame....

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/as...wzealand.baby.abandoned/index.html



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Wow that's scary. Really a sad, sad case. Best wishes to the newborn.

Kleinsim


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

The woman has now been charged with child abandonment and failing to reveal a pregnancy, each of which can lead to up to 7 years of imprisonment:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7964062.stm



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Samoan culture frowns upon chilbirth outside marriage. The pressure on this young woman would have been incredible. For those of you who say "how come she didn't realise?" The answer is she probably did realise but concealed it for these cultural reasons. I'm not defending her actions but just trying to illustrate that the strong family bonds in Pacific Island culture can bring pressures that many of us in western culture find hard to understand.

Concealing a pregnancy is not as difficult as you may think either. When I was undertaking my nurse training I spent a few weeks placement in the obstetric dept. One day a 15 year old girl was brought in to the labour suite in the well advanced into the 2nd stage of labour. She had concealed her pregnancy from her parents and the first they knew was when her waters broke sitting at the breakfast table.


User currently offlineJFernandez From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3203 times:



Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 15):
The woman has now been charged with child abandonment and failing to reveal a pregnancy, each of which can lead to up to 7 years of imprisonment:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-paci...2.stm

"Failing to reveal a pregnancy"? Didn't know that was a crime.


User currently offlineTraveladdict From Malaysia, joined Feb 2009, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3155 times:



Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 11):
I've also heard numerous stories of people giving birth on board airplanes (albeit without abandoning the baby afterwards). So if you are flying from Canada to Mexico and give birth to a child in US Airspace is that child automatically, by US citizenship law, a US citizen?

I read somewhere (sorry no source) that is depends on the airline. If it's a Dutch airline then the baby can obtain Dutch citizenship. It's similar to the drinking rule; a Air France can let 16 year olds drink even while flying in US airspace because it's a French plane.

Quoting JFernandez (Reply 17):
"Failing to reveal a pregnancy"? Didn't know that was a crime.

Well it's the law that if you're 36 weeks pregnant then you can't fly, and most likely this woman was beyond this point but flew anyway. That's illegal.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3126 times:



Quoting JFernandez (Reply 17):
"Failing to reveal a pregnancy"? Didn't know that was a crime.

Providing false information to obtain your visa is the crime though. Whatever that is called in legal terms I dont know but the fineprint towards the end of a visa application generally deals with it.

Being pregnant is just fine, if you state so on your visa application.
However if you apply for a visa as a seasonal labourer and state you are due to give birth during your time working as a fruit picker in NZ, I guess the chances of being denied a visa is rather large.
Thats just my assumption though.

This woman came on a seasonal labourer visa last year and the employer wanted her back this year too.

Without generalising to much, many Samoans tend to be quite large and have big bones. If that was the case here I can understand that it isn't easy to spot a pregnancy.

A sad story all in all, this woman will have a hard time back in Samoa and her chances of earning money in NZ will have diminished.



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