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Did Aeronaves De Mexico Have B707?  
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2848 times:

I never heard of it, but I was going thru the 11/63 OAG preparatory to auctioning it and it shows two weekly AM 707s YUL-MEX. They also show the expected DC8 to IDL; did they really have both?

Another surprise was a weekly CP DC8 YVR-YYC-MEX to go along with the two weekly YVR-MEX nonstops. CP also had a weekly Britannia YYZ-YQG-MEX, plus the two weekly YUL-YYZ-MEX DC8s.

I was surprised to see TWA starting a cargo jet LAX-ORD-IDL eff 3 December, but Cearley explains they got a couple of 707-373Cs before their -331Cs.

Note for collectors: this N Amer QR OAG doesn't show flights within Mexico and Central America, but it does show flights from the US as far as Caracas (VIASA 880s), which later OAGs don't.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2828 times:



Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
and it shows two weekly AM 707s YUL-MEX. They also show the expected DC8 to IDL; did they really have both?

I'm pretty certain they never had 707s. I wonder if it was a typo?


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2808 times:

I found this information: http://www.berlin-spotter.de/airlines/aeromexico.htm

According to that source they used Sabena B 707s to connect Montreal with Mexico. Aeronaves took the plane over in Montreal, flew to Mexico-City and vice versa on the same day, so that Sabena could use the plane again to fly to Europe.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2768 times:

Thanks for finding that, and for the translation. I'll see what Sabena shows in the OAG.

User currently offlineMayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 302 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 2726 times:

Taken from Flight International, April 11, 1963:

Aeronaves de México, S. A.

...Aeronaves de México, Mexicana de Aviación and Guest Aerovías are to form a consortium to operate international services; the Mexican Government will have a 50 per cent holding in this consortium, Aeronaves de México 15 per cent, Guest Aerovías 10 per cent and Mexicana de Aviación 25 per cent. Aeronaves de México took over in 1962 Guest Aerovías, which continues to operate under its own name. Aeronaves de México DC-8s will reopen Guest's Mexico City - Miami - Lisbon - Madrid service this year. A twice-weekly Montreal - Mexico City service is now operated with Sabena Boeing 707s.
Head Office: Mariano Escobedo No 491, Mexico City, Mexico.
Executives: A. D. Lombardo, president; C. Ramos, general manager; J. P. y Bouras, director-general; R. L. Johnson, operations manager; M. Muñoz, traffic and sales manager; R. G. Gómez, sales manager.
Fleet: two DC-8 Series 50, two Britannia 302 (for sale), nine DC-6, two DC-4, 22 DC-3.

[Edited 2009-03-19 11:38:17]


My other plane is an A380.
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2683 times:



Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
CP also had a weekly Britannia YYZ-YQG-MEX, plus the two weekly YUL-YYZ-MEX DC8s.

Detroit's "Mexican village" was located next to the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor, closer to YQG than it was to DTW. I'm sure, in the days before tightened borders between the US and Canada, some Detroit residents preferred to take CP Air from YQG even after Aeromexico began flying to DTW in 1964.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2584 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 5):
Detroit's "Mexican village" was located next to the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor, closer to YQG than it was to DTW. I'm sure, in the days before tightened borders between the US and Canada, some Detroit residents preferred to take CP Air from YQG even after Aeromexico began flying to DTW in 1964.


Seaholm Maples are #1!


Why was there such a large Mexican community in DET then? This was back when the hispanic population was less than 5% and concentrated along the border with Mexico.

There was some program that ended in 1964 that allowed unmarried Mexican men to come to the USA to work, but mostly in CA. I cant remember what it was called.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2577 times:



Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Another surprise was a weekly CP DC8 YVR-YYC-MEX to go along with the two weekly YVR-MEX nonstops.

At least 2 of the 3 (maybe all 3) CP DC-8s continued beyond MEX to LIM-SCL-EZE. I remember the YYC-MEX flight clearly. In 1970, during my first year working for CP, it was the first flight I was ever bumped off when flying nonrev. It departed YYC 100% full that night.


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5218 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2471 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):

One of those CP flights also did MEX-ACA and MEX-PVR.

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2447 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 6):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 5):
Detroit's "Mexican village" was located next to the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor, closer to YQG than it was to DTW. I'm sure, in the days before tightened borders between the US and Canada, some Detroit residents preferred to take CP Air from YQG even after Aeromexico began flying to DTW in 1964.

Why was there such a large Mexican community in DET then? This was back when the hispanic population was less than 5% and concentrated along the border with Mexico.

There were large communities of many ethnic groups in the Detroit area in the 1950s and 1960s. It's hard to believe now, but 60 years ago jobs on auto assembly lines were very high paying, and people from all over the world came to Detroit because they could make more money working for Chrysler or Ford than they could make "back home".

Detroit had the largest Arab community in the Western Hemisphere for a long time. Royal Jordanian flies to DTW to capture this traffic.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7570 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 2389 times:



Quoting N14AZ (Reply 2):
found this information: http://www.berlin-spotter.de/airlines/aeromexico.htm

According to that source they used Sabena B 707s to connect Montreal with Mexico.

Awesome! Thanks for the Berlin-Spotter link. Very interesting! Must have been quite nice to fly a SN plane operated by AM.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2336 times:



Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 8):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):


One of those CP flights also did MEX-ACA and MEX-PVR.

I think the CP scheduled service to PVR was a tag-on from YYZ-GDL. Can't recall a flight to PVR via MEX although CP of course operated many charter flights to numerous resort destinations in Mexico. The YVR-South America flights stopped at ACA after MEX for a while as ACA's sea level location permitted increased payload on the ACA-LIM sector while MEX-LIM was sometimes restricted.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2318 times:

I remember they made the front page in January 1961 when an eight ran off the runway at Idlewild, NYC, on take off. They wrote that one off.

Piece of history....the plane belonged to Eastern but was leased to Aeronaves de Mexico and was in the Mexican carriers colors.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Far as I can see all that CP service to PVR and ACA was later, in the 1970s. At one point they had a nonstop YYZ-ACA-- weekly of course.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2259 times:

AM use to serve YUL/YMX I believe

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2155 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 13):
Far as I can see all that CP service to PVR and ACA was later, in the 1970s. At one point they had a nonstop YYZ-ACA-- weekly of course.

Correct, MEX was CP's only destination in Mexico prior to sometime in the 1970s when limited scheduled services were added to ACA/GDL/PVR..


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5049 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Not to hijack the CP discussion, but could you tell me what if any interchange operations were still in effect? The AA/DL/National Florida-Texas-California interchange would have been gone as NA and DL were awarded southern transcon routes in 1961.

Thanks,

OzarkD9S



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

I remember BN/EA had a Convair from somewhere in Georgia to DEN (nine stops); I'll take a look for others.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

The only interchanges I see are

UA/CO SEA-TUL

UA/BN SEA-DAL

CO/BN DEN-STL

BN/EA DEN-ABY

EA/BN IDL-TUM

NA/PA IDL-TUM (still DC-7B, via DCA)

It seems PA had that interchange with BN HOU-FRA by 11/63, but no mention of that here.

In other news, Southeastern Airlines has flight 729, an Aztec leaving JAX at 0730 that arrives ATL at 0955 after stopping at AYS HZG DGL FZT MGR TMA ABY CDG ETA DBN MCN CSG BEU TTH GFR.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5049 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1920 times:

thanks Timz, you always have good old info.

 Wink



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
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