Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air France Launches Premium Economy  
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 25845 times:

I don't know if this has been discussed before... There have been rumors about this for a while but now it's official.

Air France is launching a new premium economy called Premium Voyageur on its long-haul flights. Premium Voyageur will be available next fall, with ticket sales starting as early as April 1.
The cabin will feature 48cm-wide (19inch) fixed-shell seats with a 97cm pitch (+40%) and a 123° recline. All seats will be equipped with a 26cm video screen, with the control box incorporated into the seat rather than being stowed beneath it.
Passenger benefits will include priority check-in, a 30kg luggage allowance, priority boarding and baggage delivery and amenities from the Affaires cabin. However the meal service will be the same as in Tempo (rebranded Voyageur).
Premium Voyageur will gradually be phased in on Air France's entire long-haul network on flights operated by 777s, A340s and A330s (on average 40 Tempo Seats will be replaced with 22 Premium Voyageur seats). So basically not on the 747s (and no mention yet of the A380s, although my guess is they will get premium economy as well).
The first available destinations will be New York-JFK, Tokyo and Osaka. Air France says fares will be "highly competitive" and suited to small- and medium-sized businesses. Return flights between Paris and New York will start at €1,038 ($1,419), including taxes. Paris-Tokyo will start at €1,660 and Paris-Osaka at €1,665.


Air France is also rebranding its other classes, beginning this April:
L'Espace Première -> La Première
L'Espace Affaires -> Affaires
Alizé -> Premium Voyageur/Alizé
Tempo -> Voyageur

Medium-haul:
Tempo Challenge -> Premium Voyageur
Tempo -> Voyageur


http://corporate.airfrance.com/no_ca...ews%5D=4396&tt_news%5BBackPid%5D=2

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...t-new-premium-economy-product.html

[Edited 2009-03-20 05:43:25]

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTreeHillRavens From Malaysia, joined Jun 2007, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 25823 times:

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
L'Espace Première -> La Première
L'Espace Affaires -> Affaires

Oh NO !!! Why change these two names ? Both are such good names !

So the soon to be launch Premium Voyageur will have around 43" of seat pitch as the article says it will have 40% more legroom than Voyageur but if you read further down it says the Premium Voyageur will have 97CM of seat pitch, which is only 38" just like BA & VS. Which one is the real seat pitch then ?

Initial aircraft plan released by Air France shows that 5 rows of Y seat (50 seats) will be taken out of the current 3-class 77W and these will be replaced by 28 Premium Voyageur seats.

[Edited 2009-03-20 05:52:08]

[Edited 2009-03-20 05:59:03]

User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 25741 times:

Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route? If so, that's fantastic news!
When I cannot afford to fly Business class, I can treat myself to something a bit more luxuriant than standard Economy!



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 25738 times:



Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 1):
So the soon to be launch Premium Voyageur will have around 42"-43" of seat pitch. Am i right ? The seat looks good !

The seat pitch will be around 38" actually, but I guess the added passenger comfort will be significant, given the fixed-shell seats and increased width.
The seats look really good indeed, they're the first fixed-shell premium economy seats in Europe.

Here are some more links (there seem to be some problems with the links on the AF website):

Detailed cabin descpription with photos:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/ne...-news/cabin-description/index.html

Example of the changes on the 77W:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/ne...page-news/aircraft-plan/index.html

Detailed brand evolution (in French only, dunno why):
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/ac...e/evolution-des-marques/index.html


This is what the seats look like:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fileadmin/dossiers/images/PremiumVoyageur_legendes.jpg


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 25672 times:



Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route? If so, that's fantastic news!

The AF-operated flights between CDG and BEY (AF 565/566) are on 777s, so I guess you can start getting ready for that trip  Wink


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 25640 times:

Super seats....AF got even better!!

User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 25510 times:



Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route? If so, that's fantastic news!
When I cannot afford to fly Business class, I can treat myself to something a bit more luxuriant than standard Economy!

Yes, eventually.

I'm all for Prem. Economy products. It's a great way to travel, and eventually I want most airlines to have them. I just hope the prices don't become J-level (and J becomes F-level, and F becomes R-level etc.).


User currently offlineSBON From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 25509 times:

This makes me even more sad to see AF leaving PHL in October  Sad

User currently offlineLongHaul67 From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 25399 times:

What will this mean for their standard economy class product? Will it be diluted in any way compared to today?

User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 25363 times:

AF just started its improving era. First revealed new logo then these amazing new seats. It's just marvelous.

Fatmir



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineGoMEA From France, joined Jan 2004, 202 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 25115 times:

Any idea on the layout?

aaa-bbb-aaa?

28 seats = 4 * 7 which could lead to a 2-3-2 layout.

Just my 0.02€ !



MEA raising the Cedar far up in the sky
User currently offlineTreeHillRavens From Malaysia, joined Jun 2007, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 25003 times:



Quoting GoMEA (Reply 10):
Any idea on the layout?

aaa-bbb-aaa?

28 seats = 4 * 7 which could lead to a 2-3-2 layout.

Just my 0.02€ !

Most likely to be 2-3-2 on 332/343 and 2-4-2 on 772/77W.


User currently onlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 24935 times:



Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route?

You can.
The B772ER/B77W + A332 will be fitted in priority with the new "Premium Voyageur" Class.

Note that P.H.G announced yesterday that the inflight service will be identical in Y and Y+ and will remain to the same "high" standard for a Y class (Menus, amenity kit, wide range of free alcohol drinks including champagne).


User currently offlineSQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1640 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 24892 times:



Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
amenities from the Affaires cabin.

What kind of amenities? Is it going to be like BA where the only difference between World Traveler and World Traveller plus is the seat, or if it's going to be like TG (which has been phased out??) where there are certain added extras like real linen table cloth with the meal (but same catering as Y) etc. or is it like QF that has a completely different service and catering for Premium Econ?

Still early days yet, but the Premium Y on AF looks really nice, almost like a Business seat with the shell and all!



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 24813 times:

I remember reading KLM will start a similar service too.


seemyseems
User currently offlineMindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 24534 times:



Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 1):
Oh NO !!! Why change these two names ? Both are such good names !

Agree. The old names were more French. Thses changes could be explained by the revamp of the brand to be less French and more global while keeping a liitle bit of French flair.... my 2 cts.

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 1):
So the soon to be launch Premium Voyageur will have around 43" of seat pitch as the article says it will have 40% more legroom than Voyageur but if you read further down it says the Premium Voyageur will have 97CM of seat pitch, which is only 38" just like BA & VS. Which one is the real seat pitch then ?

Well on the pic/sketch, the space between the two hard shell seats is 38" but since you can extend your leg beneath the seat in front of you, i think this would make it like 43", again that's my 2 cts.

Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 13):
What kind of amenities? Is it going to be like BA where the only difference between World Traveler and World Traveller plus is the seat, or if it's going to be like TG (which has been phased out??) where there are certain added extras like real linen table cloth with the meal (but same catering as Y) etc. or is it like QF that has a completely different service and catering for Premium Econ?

Well i think the food service, as FLYSSC said, will be like in Y, but the amenity kit will be the same as in J or may be as the Alizee one. In the sketch you can see at the bottom of the seat back two compartiments to store the amenity kit and it looks like the current J amenity kit/box

Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 13):
Still early days yet, but the Premium Y on AF looks really nice, almost like a Business seat with the shell and all!

 checkmark 

Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 14):
I remember reading KLM will start a similar service too

I hope this will be the case !


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 24240 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 14):
remember reading KLM will start a similar service too.

Recent history shows that where goes KLM, so goes Northwest and where goes Air France, so goes Delta. I predict that we can expect to see a premium economy product on Delta soon.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 24158 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This sounds like a nice product though I feel it would be nice if they did something with the meal service even if it's just a small upgrade and served on different dishes.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 24138 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

That's a very good idea nowadays. It's the best way to improve Y yields as there are people willing to pay for a little more than Y but not so much as J/C.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCuriousflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 23969 times:

So when will the first flight be? I can't wait, they said "autumn", I'd love it this Summer. Their 10-abreast Y is a nightmare and C is way beyond my means. It was great time they aligned with the competition.

User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 23783 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
It's the best way to improve Y yields as there are people willing to pay for a little more than Y but not so much as J/C.

it is also a way of diluting J yields, unfortunately... some companies will send people in Y+, if there is such a product, when they would had send them in J, if there were none.



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 23713 times:

That looks good. I like flying AF and now a little more.  Smile

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 11):
Most likely to be 2-3-2 on 332/343 and 2-4-2 on 772/77W.

How about the B747-400 or even the A380?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 23686 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 20):
it is also a way of diluting J yields, unfortunately... some companies will send people in Y+, if there is such a product, when they would had send them in J, if there were none

In this case it's at least not so bad as when the airline only offers regular Y and J/C. And considering Y+ fares, it's not a deep difference from deep discount J fares.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 23645 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
In this case it's at least not so bad as when the airline only offers regular Y and J/C.

?? they don't put people into Y+ who they would have put in Y otherwise..... those folks are gonna stay in Y. But some people who would have gotten to fly J otherwise, are going into Y+... especially with the current state of the economy.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
And considering Y+ fares, it's not a deep difference from deep discount J fares.

that's true, of course...



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 23581 times:



Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 16):
Recent history shows that where goes KLM, so goes Northwest and where goes Air France, so goes Delta. I predict that we can expect to see a premium economy product on Delta soon.

I hope DL/NW do align the various travel classes on TATL at least. KLM/NW had the same (or at least very similar) WBC product. A Y+ product across the AF/KLM/DL/NW combination would be good IMHO. I've flown BA Y+ and loved it, I wish US airlines would offer it (UA trans-con version is the only Y+ concept really out there among the US legacies that I'm aware of)


25 LipeGIG : It's a matter of individuals. I would pay an extra to fly Y+, some corporations can pay the Y+ premium. As you mentioned could lead to less revenue,
26 BrianDromey : Well done to AF, this looks to be a brilliant product, it seems with each Y+ product it comes closer and closer to what J used to be like. Interesting
27 OA260 : Certainly from the artists impressions and the price of EUR1000 CDG-JFK-CDG it looks very promising.
28 Kappel : I haven't heard about this in a while. I hope they didn't put this plan on the backburner...
29 Cpd : Indeed! This looks great.
30 Ikramerica : This is what J class used to be, at least the hard product.
31 MilesDependent : This is very exciting and I think we will see a lot more of it over the next 12 months. Other airlines SERIOUSLY AFFECTED by the global economic situa
32 Directorguy : I'm afraid that introducing Prem Econ is a long-term solution. Once the economy rebounds and those in Y+ go back to J (and demand shifts) then SQ (as
33 Skyteam10001 : It is interesting that they mention they will offer seats at around 1000 euros R/T on CDG-JFK, because that is more or less the cheapest price you can
34 Incitatus : For function and looks, it seems outstanding. But frankly, I hate them. The seatbacks are way too thick. Why offer more pitch and then take away a bi
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air France Launches In Flight Mobile posted Fri Dec 21 2007 02:11:22 by Swiftski
Air France Launches Carbon Emissions Calculator posted Wed Oct 24 2007 12:53:31 by Simairlinenet
Air New Zealand Premium Economy posted Tue Jul 26 2005 03:11:12 by Zeekiel
Air France Long Haul Economy Class Service posted Mon Aug 23 2004 23:21:00 by AMS
Air France Launches Dallas/Fort Worth Service posted Mon May 7 2001 13:50:45 by 777-500ER
Air France Launches Its New Inflight Product. posted Tue Oct 17 2000 15:24:19 by AF-A319
Roll-out Status Of Premium Economy On Air France? posted Fri Apr 23 2010 10:38:47 by mozart
Air France-KLM To Create Economy Plus From 2009 posted Tue Sep 25 2007 16:49:37 by Keesje
Air New Zealand Revamps Pacific Premium Economy Se posted Tue Dec 12 2006 05:27:08 by Darenw
Air NZ Premium Economy Goes Cross Tasman posted Thu Nov 3 2005 15:33:30 by V2fix