OlympicATH From Greece, joined Jul 2001, 277 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19118 times:
I don't know if this has been discussed before... There have been rumors about this for a while but now it's official.
Air France is launching a new premium economy called Premium Voyageur on its long-haul flights. Premium Voyageur will be available next fall, with ticket sales starting as early as April 1.
The cabin will feature 48cm-wide (19inch) fixed-shell seats with a 97cm pitch (+40%) and a 123° recline. All seats will be equipped with a 26cm video screen, with the control box incorporated into the seat rather than being stowed beneath it.
Passenger benefits will include priority check-in, a 30kg luggage allowance, priority boarding and baggage delivery and amenities from the Affaires cabin. However the meal service will be the same as in Tempo (rebranded Voyageur).
Premium Voyageur will gradually be phased in on Air France's entire long-haul network on flights operated by 777s, A340s and A330s (on average 40 Tempo Seats will be replaced with 22 Premium Voyageur seats). So basically not on the 747s (and no mention yet of the A380s, although my guess is they will get premium economy as well).
The first available destinations will be New York-JFK, Tokyo and Osaka. Air France says fares will be "highly competitive" and suited to small- and medium-sized businesses. Return flights between Paris and New York will start at €1,038 ($1,419), including taxes. Paris-Tokyo will start at €1,660 and Paris-Osaka at €1,665.
Oh NO !!! Why change these two names ? Both are such good names !
So the soon to be launch Premium Voyageur will have around 43" of seat pitch as the article says it will have 40% more legroom than Voyageur but if you read further down it says the Premium Voyageur will have 97CM of seat pitch, which is only 38" just like BA & VS. Which one is the real seat pitch then ?
Initial aircraft plan released by Air France shows that 5 rows of Y seat (50 seats) will be taken out of the current 3-class 77W and these will be replaced by 28 Premium Voyageur seats.
Raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1646 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19014 times:
Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route? If so, that's fantastic news!
When I cannot afford to fly Business class, I can treat myself to something a bit more luxuriant than standard Economy!
OlympicATH From Greece, joined Jul 2001, 277 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19011 times:
Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 1): So the soon to be launch Premium Voyageur will have around 42"-43" of seat pitch. Am i right ? The seat looks good !
The seat pitch will be around 38" actually, but I guess the added passenger comfort will be significant, given the fixed-shell seats and increased width.
The seats look really good indeed, they're the first fixed-shell premium economy seats in Europe.
Here are some more links (there seem to be some problems with the links on the AF website):
Directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18783 times:
Quoting Raffik (Reply 2): Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route? If so, that's fantastic news!
When I cannot afford to fly Business class, I can treat myself to something a bit more luxuriant than standard Economy!
Yes, eventually.
I'm all for Prem. Economy products. It's a great way to travel, and eventually I want most airlines to have them. I just hope the prices don't become J-level (and J becomes F-level, and F becomes R-level etc.).
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7313 posts, RR: 61 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18208 times:
Quoting Raffik (Reply 2): Can we expect this on the CDG-BEY-CDG route?
You can.
The B772ER/B77W + A332 will be fitted in priority with the new "Premium Voyageur" Class.
Note that P.H.G announced yesterday that the inflight service will be identical in Y and Y+ and will remain to the same "high" standard for a Y class (Menus, amenity kit, wide range of free alcohol drinks including champagne).
What kind of amenities? Is it going to be like BA where the only difference between World Traveler and World Traveller plus is the seat, or if it's going to be like TG (which has been phased out??) where there are certain added extras like real linen table cloth with the meal (but same catering as Y) etc. or is it like QF that has a completely different service and catering for Premium Econ?
Still early days yet, but the Premium Y on AF looks really nice, almost like a Business seat with the shell and all!
Mindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17807 times:
Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 1): Oh NO !!! Why change these two names ? Both are such good names !
Agree. The old names were more French. Thses changes could be explained by the revamp of the brand to be less French and more global while keeping a liitle bit of French flair.... my 2 cts.
Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 1): So the soon to be launch Premium Voyageur will have around 43" of seat pitch as the article says it will have 40% more legroom than Voyageur but if you read further down it says the Premium Voyageur will have 97CM of seat pitch, which is only 38" just like BA & VS. Which one is the real seat pitch then ?
Well on the pic/sketch, the space between the two hard shell seats is 38" but since you can extend your leg beneath the seat in front of you, i think this would make it like 43", again that's my 2 cts.
Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 13): What kind of amenities? Is it going to be like BA where the only difference between World Traveler and World Traveller plus is the seat, or if it's going to be like TG (which has been phased out??) where there are certain added extras like real linen table cloth with the meal (but same catering as Y) etc. or is it like QF that has a completely different service and catering for Premium Econ?
Well i think the food service, as FLYSSC said, will be like in Y, but the amenity kit will be the same as in J or may be as the Alizee one. In the sketch you can see at the bottom of the seat back two compartiments to store the amenity kit and it looks like the current J amenity kit/box
Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 13): Still early days yet, but the Premium Y on AF looks really nice, almost like a Business seat with the shell and all!
Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 14): I remember reading KLM will start a similar service too
Reggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1169 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17513 times:
Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 14): remember reading KLM will start a similar service too.
Recent history shows that where goes KLM, so goes Northwest and where goes Air France, so goes Delta. I predict that we can expect to see a premium economy product on Delta soon.
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17431 times:
This sounds like a nice product though I feel it would be nice if they did something with the meal service even if it's just a small upgrade and served on different dishes.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17411 times:
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That's a very good idea nowadays. It's the best way to improve Y yields as there are people willing to pay for a little more than Y but not so much as J/C.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Curiousflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 655 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17242 times:
So when will the first flight be? I can't wait, they said "autumn", I'd love it this Summer. Their 10-abreast Y is a nightmare and C is way beyond my means. It was great time they aligned with the competition.
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17056 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18): It's the best way to improve Y yields as there are people willing to pay for a little more than Y but not so much as J/C.
it is also a way of diluting J yields, unfortunately... some companies will send people in Y+, if there is such a product, when they would had send them in J, if there were none.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16959 times:
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Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 20): it is also a way of diluting J yields, unfortunately... some companies will send people in Y+, if there is such a product, when they would had send them in J, if there were none
In this case it's at least not so bad as when the airline only offers regular Y and J/C. And considering Y+ fares, it's not a deep difference from deep discount J fares.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16918 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22): In this case it's at least not so bad as when the airline only offers regular Y and J/C.
?? they don't put people into Y+ who they would have put in Y otherwise..... those folks are gonna stay in Y. But some people who would have gotten to fly J otherwise, are going into Y+... especially with the current state of the economy.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22): And considering Y+ fares, it's not a deep difference from deep discount J fares.
MMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16854 times:
Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 16): Recent history shows that where goes KLM, so goes Northwest and where goes Air France, so goes Delta. I predict that we can expect to see a premium economy product on Delta soon.
I hope DL/NW do align the various travel classes on TATL at least. KLM/NW had the same (or at least very similar) WBC product. A Y+ product across the AF/KLM/DL/NW combination would be good IMHO. I've flown BA Y+ and loved it, I wish US airlines would offer it (UA trans-con version is the only Y+ concept really out there among the US legacies that I'm aware of)
25 LipeGIG: It's a matter of individuals. I would pay an extra to fly Y+, some corporations can pay the Y+ premium. As you mentioned could lead to less revenue,
26 BrianDromey: Well done to AF, this looks to be a brilliant product, it seems with each Y+ product it comes closer and closer to what J used to be like. Interesting
27 OA260: Certainly from the artists impressions and the price of EUR1000 CDG-JFK-CDG it looks very promising.
28 Kappel: I haven't heard about this in a while. I hope they didn't put this plan on the backburner...
30 Ikramerica: This is what J class used to be, at least the hard product.
31 MilesDependent: This is very exciting and I think we will see a lot more of it over the next 12 months. Other airlines SERIOUSLY AFFECTED by the global economic situa
32 Directorguy: I'm afraid that introducing Prem Econ is a long-term solution. Once the economy rebounds and those in Y+ go back to J (and demand shifts) then SQ (as
33 Skyteam10001: It is interesting that they mention they will offer seats at around 1000 euros R/T on CDG-JFK, because that is more or less the cheapest price you can
34 Incitatus: For function and looks, it seems outstanding. But frankly, I hate them. The seatbacks are way too thick. Why offer more pitch and then take away a bi
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