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Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes  
User currently offlineUS A333 PIT From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

I've been reading all of these posts about how low yield the market to Hawaii is cause it's mostly frequent flyer award travelling instead of the business customers who pay the big bucks. So, naturally, it's understandable why airlines are eliminating routes to Hawaii. In the past few months DL has halted service from both ATL and DFW while United has halted the ORD-HNL route. I know these routes weren't eliminated soley because of unprofitability but the airlines must have also taken that into consideration. (I know they've been having pilot disputes.) Any how, my question is how can TWA afford to fly daily nonstops between STL and both HNL and OGG(Maui)? To only HNL I could maybe understand, but OGG as well. How can they make money on these routes? Thanks for anyone with answers.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1197 times:

This is purely a quess, but TWA has been using the 757 non-stop from Hawaii. Not a huge passenger load. But then, STL wouldn't have the same amount of passengers as say ORD. So it could be profitable for them. Like I said, just a quess.

User currently offlineUS A333 PIT From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1187 times:

TWA only uses the 757 on the LAX-KOA route. From STL they use 767-300er's on both HNL and OGG routes so they have to fill up a pretty big plane.

User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1160 times:

Good question. Anyone know how the STL-Hawaii routes are doing?

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1155 times:

Remember that the US carriers are very careful with their Hawaii routes and the yeild factor since so many people use their frequent flyer miles on vacations to Hawaii; nice for the pax, expensive for the airlines. That is why the route are frequently flown with older aircraft and sometimes nonstop flights are reduced - the aircraft may be full, but nobody is paying!!

User currently offlineUS A333 PIT From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1144 times:

Everything you said was correct. That's why the TWA situation doens't make sense, because TWA is using some of their newest and their biggest aircraft on these two routes.

User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

As with most airlines Hawaii does does not make much money. However airlines do fly it so their frequent fliers will have place to "spend" their miles. Additionally, it is intersting to note that since the DC10's and L1011's have been parked as well as the older 747's and being replaced by 757's 767's etc many "excess" seats have been eliminated from the market. This has slightly pushed the yields up on the flights (supply and demand). Fianlly with the fuel savings, the trips do occasionally post a slight profit.,

User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

I fly my mother to HNL every year and TWA always gives us the best fare. She flys from STL to HNL Non Stop on a 767-300. Last fare I paid round trip was 499.00. I couldn't believe it.

User currently offlineUS A333 PIT From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1112 times:

So does anybody know the answer to my original question?

User currently offlineNwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1110 times:

Northwest must be doing well with HNl service because last year they added DTW-HNL nonstop flights and they have also announced the MSP-HNL is going to be year round nonstop (747 winter months, DC10 summer months) in addition to daily nonstops from LAX, SFO, and SEA to HNL with DC10 aircraft.

User currently offlineMwaferBCN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

I have no inside information, but I think that TWA had marketing agreements on its Hawaii routes. Essentially, a tour group would buy a number of the seats on the plane and then sell these as part of its tour packages. TWA then had the rest of the seats to sell or use for its frequent fliers. This guaranteed (hopefully) a small profit for TWA, and moreso if it could sell the leftover seats. This is the same strategy they used on some of their Caribbean flights.


adeu,

Matt


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

Matt, I think your right.

For the LAX-KOA flight only though.

Most of the Carribean flights (all EWR and BOS and most JFK) were these subsidized flights as well.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1088 times:

Just curious, but where does TWA refuel the 757's on the STL-Hawaii flights?


Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineMdsmith11 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 194 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1080 times:

TWA was one of the pioneers for air-to-air commercial A/C refueling. Usually with cooperation with a USAF KC-10 tanker.

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

LOL Mdsmith11  Smile

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