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Ryanair Eyeing Cyprus Flights?  
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7845 times:

According to the leading article of today's edition of the Cyprus Sunday Mail, Ryanair has been in discussion with Cypriot authorities about flights to the island for quite a while (over 2 years). Do you think / have info whether anything will come out of the negotiations?

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKesflyer From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7650 times:

Seems that Cyprus and Greece are about the only places in Europe that Ryanair do not serve. What's up with this anyway. Does not seem to make sense to me considering that there are so many flights from UK to Cyprus / Greece, especially in summer. What are they waiting for ? Do they hope easyjet will pull out and then they can get in ?

User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3240 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7612 times:

U2 has a significant advantage in both Greece and Cyprus because founder Stelios is Greek and of Cypriot heritage. On a more practical front routes from the UK to Greece and Cyprus are somewhat longer then almost all of FR's current routes. Such longer services are more difficult to operate on a low-cost basis because 1 aircraft will be tied up for up to 9 hours on a daily ATH - STN, for example. New crew bases would also be needed and the flights would require more catering - granted the latter would increase revenue through sales but the additional weight of carrying it would affect margins. It is also quite likely, especially when considering Cyprus, that more checked luggage would be carried and again that will affect fuel burn and turnarounds. It is possible for them to serve those countries but 25-minute turnarounds may not be possible.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2987 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7569 times:

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 1):
What's up with this anyway.

Cyprus long positioned itself at the upper end of the leisure market. It took many years and much negotiation before charter carriers were granted access to the Cypriot market, thus breaking the monopoly of CY. With the way Ayia Napa has developed, one wonders if some officials and politicians rue the day they opened the flood gates.   On that basis, I would suspect the reason there is no Ryanair and limited Easyjet is more political than anything to do with a lack of will on the part of any lo-co operator, but I stand to be corrected by anyone more au fait with the situation.

Rgds

[Edited 2009-03-22 13:08:25]


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7568 times:

The problem with Cyprus is that it is on are on the eastern fringes of Europe and Ryanair's hubs are focused in Western and Northern Europe, making any flights to the Island from its respective hubs in excess of 3.5hrs away.

Ryanair does operate flights of this length, but they are some what limited and usually operated with flights from more local bases too... Cyprus is already quite a competitive market, especially from the UK with a large number of charter flights and an increasing number of Low Cost Carriers, including Monarch, easyJet and Jet2. Airlines like Cyprus Airways and British Airways, used to dominate the UK to Cyprus scheduled market up until about 5-10yrs ago, fares ranged from £300-£400, giving the airlines a healthy profit. Now it is not unusual to see flights for less than £80 each way (even with BA), and is not the cash cow it used to be!

If Ryanair tried to get a slice of the market, it is unlikely prices could be driven down much, cosidering flying times of 4-5hrs from the UK. Ryanair maybe able to offer loss-making, lead-in fares of £10 each way, but the majority of the seats sold are very much unlikely to be any less than the other carriers.

Very much like Malta, the airport charges and taxes to the likes of PFO and LCA are considered to be quite high, and unless Ryanair can obtain some concessions, I doubt the airline will be to fly to the island... They may however try to land at some derelict airfield on the island like Nicosia, Famagusta, Ercan or use RAF Akrotiri!  

[Edited 2009-03-22 13:21:45]

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7539 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 4):
Nicosia, Famagusta or use RAF Akrotiri!

Akrotiri ( Pafos East ) .  Big grin  Wink


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7525 times:

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 3):
much negotiation before charter carriers were granted access to the Cypriot market

Bit of nostaglia...

While charter flights were allowed from UK airport to Cyprus and were granted some time ago, charter flights from STN, LGW and LHR were all banned up until about 10-15 yrs ago.

I remember LTN was the only "London" airport allowed to operate chater flights to the island!

Even though LTN only had about 1.5million pax flying through the airport per year this time, it was not unusual to see on some days 5-6 flights a day operating to LCA and PFO during the summer months to cater for the London holiday traffic.

Would not be unsual to see to 3-4 Euro Cypria A320's on the Apron all at once!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
Akrotiri ( Pafos East ) . Big grin Wink

Akrotiri - Paphos (West), Larnaca (East) & Nicosia (South)

[Edited 2009-03-22 13:23:31]

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7499 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 6):
Akrotiri - Paphos (West), Larnaca (East) & Nicosia (South)

That was part of the joke  Wink


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7461 times:

Well, I think the days of Cyprus at the top end of the leisure market are long gone - quality is very good, but I was there again very recently, and everything was at rock bottom prices or quite near.

FR said that they are interested in operating to Cyprus from NYO, BGY, PSA, NRN, MRS and GRO, plus Israel and the "Middle East".

I think that they'd do well. Eastern Cyprus (Larnaca and Agia Napa) is very popular with Swedish tourists. There are no direct flights from Cyprus to Spain, so GRO will be another viable route, at least in summer. Same with MRS; there are no flights that I am aware of from the south of France to Cyprus, and I think such a route could be offered on a year-round basis and beefed up for the summer months. With BGY and PSA, FR will be competing with CY at MXP and FCO. However, I think the demand for the summer months is enough to maintain a Ryanair service viable. I am not sure about NRN, as there are charter services to nearby DUS.

Personally, I think that given reasonable incentives, Ryanair could easily open up a base in Cyprus. They could also offer flights to the Greek islands such as Rhodes and Crete (where CY operates a once weekly triangular route - maybe A3 too, but I'm not sure), and to mainland Greece. I read somewhere that Ryanair was interested in Volos. However, I think that the real advantage of a Cyprus base would be the money that can be made on routes to the Gulf and the Middle East, such as DOH (no direct flight), DXB (there's a daily EK 777 flight to LCA, and CY a couple of times a week with an A320 combined with BAH, also from LCA), AUH (EY starts a thrice weekly A320 service to LCA in June), BAH (I think GF flies A320s to LCA, plus CY A320s combined with DXB, also from LCA), SHJ (no direct flight), KWI (Jazeera flies to LCA thrice weekly with A320s), plus Saudi Arabia (CY used to fly to JED and RUH from LCA twice weekly with a combined service, not sure if they still do), AMM (RJ fly regional jets into LCA), DAM (Syrian fly A320s into LCA), BEY (CY fly the route from LCA), CAI (CY fly there from LCA), Alexandria, and TLV (if security issues permit; CY fly there from LCA). Of course, one has to check bilateral agreements too. A Pafos base would be ideal, as there would hardly be any competition since most flights operate to/from Larnaca.

What's your take on a PFO base?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7437 times:



Quoting BBADXB (Reply 8):
Well, I think the days of Cyprus at the top end of the leisure market are long gone - quality is very good, but I was there again very recently, and everything was at rock bottom prices or quite near.

Yep even the big name hotels are axing prices and giving free this and free that. Sign of the times. I have a mate of mine who got the Intercontinental Aphrodite Hills for 50% discount.


User currently offlineRetroLivery From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

Haha, watch Ryanair try to kill two birds with one stone and market the flights as Athens (Larnaca) and sell passengers cutrate ferry tickets to Piraeus as "Airport Transfers".

Either that or Beirut (Lefkosia).



A3, AA, AC, AI, AK, AM, AP, AZ, B6, BA, CO, DL, EK, EY, FL, FI, FR, KL, KM, LH, MA, MH, MS, OA, OK, OS, SR, TA, TG, U2,
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7390 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 3):
On that basis, I would suspect the reason there is no Ryanair and limited Easyjet is more political than anything to do with a lack of will on the part of any lo-co operator, but I stand to be corrected by anyone more au fait with the situation.

Cyprus is part of the EU and cannot regulate which European airlines use its airports. Last week Aegean Airliners have launched flights from PFO to ATH breaking the CY monopoly at PFO on that route and there was nothing to stop them.

A Ryanair spokesman was quoted in local media in the past saying that "You (Cyprus) need us (Ryanair) and not the other way round".

I believe Ryanair could be good for the island however, I would agree with the view of Cyprus Tourist Organisation that all airlines need to be treated equally hence Ryanair cannot be offered something different.

It appears as if Ryanair are trying to use the global economic downturn (which affects Cyprus tourism) to secure a more advantageous deal from what the Government is offering though the launch of the Air Route Development Scheme.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7383 times:



Quoting RetroLivery (Reply 10):
Piraeus as "Airport Transfers".

That would suit me lol... My family are in Piraeus.


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7384 times:

Apparently, Ek is not doing too well on the LCA-MLA-LCA sectors. Earlier this month, they launched an offer in Malta, valid till towards the end of April, for return flights, plus a 3-night stay at the Hilton Nicosia (on bed and breakfast basis) for €200 inclusive of taxes. In Cyprus, they have a similar offer for a 3-night stay at the Hilton Portomaso (Malta) on bed and breakfast basis for €190, inclusive of return flights and taxes. Me and my brother booked everything over the net, and got return flights, 3 nights' B&B accommodation at a Larnaca hotel with seaview rooms (excellent for spotting a/c on their final approach into LCA), plus car hire and a full tank of petrol to burn for less than €160 per person, inclusive of taxes! Can't wait till I go again.  smile 

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27122 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7372 times:



Quoting BBADXB (Reply 13):
for a 3-night stay at the Hilton Portomaso (Malta) on bed and breakfast basis for €190, inclusive of return flights and taxes

Thats a great deal. And on EK metal also. Hilton Portomasso is lovely also , have been there a few times.


User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7363 times:



Quoting BBADXB (Reply 8):
but I was there again very recently, and everything was at rock bottom prices or quite near.



Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Yep even the big name hotels are axing prices and giving free this and free that. Sign of the times. I have a mate of mine who got the Intercontinental Aphrodite Hills for 50% discount.

I think you need to take into account the time of the year that we are. Traditionally, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar are very quiet months and its very normal for hotels to offer bargains. In fact, many hotels do close during these months or carry out renovations or other maintenance.

It is a fact that Cyprus tourism suffers from the Economic Crisis however the effects (up to now) are no worse than 10-12% drop mostly due to the devaluation of GBP against EUR and hence the drop in British tourists.

On the other hand, there was an increase in Russian tourists who are spending much more anyone else on average and are also interested in Real Property driving house prices up even in the middle of the crisis.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7337 times:

I firmly believe in the great potential of Cyprus. I have no doubt Cyprus will ride out the crisis quite well. In fact, I read a report of the European Commission this week and it said that Cyprus is the EU country that is going to be least affected by the crisis.

I plan to visit again before the end of this year (commitments permitting).


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7336 times:



Quoting CYatUK (Reply 11):
all airlines need to be treated equally hence Ryanair cannot be offered something different.

FR deliver volume, often great, and should receive more substantial discounts for the more volume it delivers. Thus, guaranteed, quick volume generation is a vital negotiation tool for FR, and often a very successful one. Why should an airline delivering 500,000 passengers a year pay the same rates as an airline that delivers 50,000? It would be illogical.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7034 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 17):
FR deliver volume, often great, and should receive more substantial discounts for the more volume it delivers. Thus, guaranteed, quick volume generation is a vital negotiation tool for FR, and often a very successful one. Why should an airline delivering 500,000 passengers a year pay the same rates as an airline that delivers 50,000? It would be illogical

Good idea but I am not sure if it can be realised (please correct me if you have more information).

Looking at a similar Route Development Program operater by Athens airport, the incentives are not related to the volume of passengers carried but the routes operated

http://www.aia.gr/pages.asp?pageid=957&langid=2



CY@Uk
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7001 times:

How is CY doing these days? A while back the news was very grim, and more LCCs cannot be helping.

User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6811 times:



Quoting CYatUK (Reply 18):
Looking at a similar Route Development Program operater by Athens airport, the incentives are not related to the volume of passengers carried but the routes operated

I think volume incentive schemes were always viewed to be more legally questionable, since its biased towards the bigger carriers. I'm not sure what airports have them.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6771 times:



Quoting EI564 (Reply 20):
I think volume incentive schemes were always viewed to be more legally questionable, since its biased towards the bigger carriers. I'm not sure what airports have them.

You're a paper seller. Customer 1: I'd like 500,000 reams please. Customer 2: I'd like 50,000 reams please. Would both pay the same rate/ream? No, of course not: that would be illogical. While they might well both get bulk-buying discounts, you'd expect Customer 1 to get the better rate/ream. Moreover, Customer 1 would probably go elsewhere as other firms would be very keen to get their business.

Lots of airports are out for FR's business, so it could effectively pick-and-choose based on what they would offer them. If Cyprus, Greece or elsewhere don't offer a sufficiently attractive package, regardless of what the parts consist of, then FR could very likely go elsewhere. And as incentives and low/free fees are key considerations for FR, this is likely to happen.

Of course, there's nothing against offering incentives for new routes AND for generating agreed volume targets.  Wink



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6696 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
You're a paper seller. Customer 1: I'd like 500,000 reams please. Customer 2: I'd like 50,000 reams please. Would both pay the same rate/ream? No, of course not: that would be illogical. While they might well both get bulk-buying discounts, you'd expect Customer 1 to get the better rate/ream. Moreover, Customer 1 would probably go elsewhere as other firms would be very keen to get their business.

This is how free trade operates and is very sensible however I would never (ever) expect a semi governmental organisation to follow such an approach. If CTO makes such a deal with any carrier it would automatically cause critisism from Parliament and opposition parties and believe me, whatever the benefits, it is something that any Cypriot Government would like to avoid.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
Lots of airports are out for FR's business, so it could effectively pick-and-choose based on what they would offer them. If Cyprus, Greece or elsewhere don't offer a sufficiently attractive package, regardless of what the parts consist of, then FR could very likely go elsewhere. And as incentives and low/free fees are key considerations for FR, this is likely to happen.

But that's exaclty what Ryanair said direclty to CTO (Cyprus Tourist Organisation) i.e. that they are already established elsewhere in Europe hence adding Cyprus to their programme is not one of their priorities.

The problem (at least as CTO described) is that Ryanair have been asking for incentives that are not allowed from the EU hence the CTO offer did not match their expectations.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6686 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 19):
How is CY doing these days? A while back the news was very grim, and more LCCs cannot be helping.

Not too bad really. They have showed profit for the second year in a row and are in the process of replacing part of their fleet in an effort to boost reliability (especially during the Summer months when a/c utilisation is high).

They have already replaced an old A320 with a leased A319 and are now looking to replace another 2 A320s with 2 new A320s.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6540 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
You're a paper seller. Customer 1: I'd like 500,000 reams please. Customer 2: I'd like 50,000 reams please. Would both pay the same rate/ream? No, of course not: that would be illogical.

Except this is slightly different in that the airline is not a customer, its a buyer, since its buying a service.

I wish I could remember where exactly but I do recall reading in some magazine that there is an issue with an airport constructing an incentive scheme such that only the biggest airlines can take advantage of it. I could be wrong but as mentioned above, the CTO is saying that there were issues with EU law.


25 OA260 : Im talking about Summer prices.
26 Babybus : There is no doubt that FR could be on to a winner with Cyprus if they started it. There are shed-loads of ex-pats with property on the island and ther
27 Pe@rson : If airlines did not provide airports with passengers, the airports might not exist (depending, for example, on other activity). Thus, airlines can ha
28 CYatUK : That is correct. What I was trying to say is that Ryanair will never find an audience in Cyprus to apply these open market tactics. The fact that CTO
29 CYatUK : That is quite alarming then. Although, again, last year, last minute bookings saved the day.
30 BBADXB : I think a Ryanair base at PFO is a workable idea. I believe that it has the potential of being of great mutual benefit to both Cyprus and FR. FR could
31 IH8BY : I can't imagine it at PFO. At times itseems a little chaotic, and very busy for a small airport during the high season. Yes, PFO is nice and cheap fr
32 CYatUK : All has changed after the new terminal opened in November. Handling is still a bit slow though
33 Kesflyer : Anyone think that FR would consider flying to Cyprus / Greece with a stop in between ? i.e. LTN-MXP-LCA or similar. Or would this just be a killer nig
34 Pe@rson : No, only as W flights, not as one-stop, stay-on-the-plane. And it operates extremely few W flights. By the way, FR doesn't serve MXP but rather BGY.
35 CYatUK : I think the routes above are feasible and most of them not covered by other airlines hence would attrack subsidies. I agree with you that Cyprus is t
36 BBADXB : Can a LTN-BGY-PFO (and back to LTN via BGY) routing be operated with the same crew? It's probably stretching the flight time limitations to the max (i
37 IH8BY : Is that inclusive of taxes, charges, and a payment handling fee??? (hides from Pe@rson...) My bad... didn't realise it was now open (has it been that
38 BBADXB : I'm laughing out loud! How dare you!!! LOL! Good one!
39 Pe@rson : Bit odd to say that: we're miles apart sitting at computers.
40 Sunshine79 : I flew this bqack in October, and there wasn't even 20 of us that boarded at LCA Louis can't handle an hour turnaround, nevermind 25 minutes. Let's h
41 BBADXB : I have only experienced the 2Serve services at LCA and all I can say is that their service, from my point of view, has been consistly exceptional. The
42 Kesflyer : Seeing as BGY is an FR base, they would not need the same crew. They could possibly have several different flights arriving from the UK or elsewhere
43 BBADXB : I can't see FR ever offering connections. Ryanair is definitely not into connections.
44 Pe@rson : Indeed they're not. I personally can't imagine it.
45 IH8BY : Indeed extremely unlikely. And without a connection, I think you'd have to be mad to do it... One would then be flying: LTN-BGY BGY-PFO PFO-BGY BGY-L
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