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That Frontier Thread, Part 2  
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12897 posts, RR: 46
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 17044 times:
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Please continue discussion from here:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4278518


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
265 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2829 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16814 times:

Amazing. They are doing this despite one of the most competitive (bloodbath really) hubs in the nation, and during a incredible recession.

Kudos to Sean Menke. he absolutely deserves it.


User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16789 times:



Quoting Airfrnt (Reply 3):
Kudos to Sean Menke. he absolutely deserves it.

Kudos to Menke and the entire Frontier team. Frontier is in an envious position relative to the rest of the industry. I believe Frontier has truly turned a corner. Menke has a great story to be telling investors right now. Southwest and First Data forced Frontier to make tough decisions (that should have been a long time ago) and gave Frontier a head start before the rest of the industry. Frontier now has one of the lowest CASM's.Menke is now positioning Frontier to be a "growth" airline.

Someone just e-mailed me about this news and made this comment - "That's it, isn't it? If he can do it in February, he can surely do it in March and so it is a quarterly operating profit. Just remarkable."



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16770 times:
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Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 4):
Menke is now positioning Frontier to be a "growth" airline.

Which - in a very tiny way - SM achieves quite soon. The 3rd A320 represents a growth in ASM's and the arrival of the 11th Q400 (June or July?) is fleet growth.

Anyhoo, I am really quite startled that Frontier achieved an operating profit in February - usually one of their worst months - given that the February traffic figures, as at every airline, were less than stellar.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26162 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16670 times:

The 3rd A320, an ex German LTU bird is planned to ferry via Iceland, Bangor into Amarillo Texas on Friday the 27th.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16634 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
The 3rd A320, an ex German LTU bird is planned to ferry via Iceland, Bangor into Amarillo Texas on Friday the 27th

I understand everything except AMA. Why is the aircraft going there? I would've thought MCI, PHX or DEN.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16629 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):

Was the A320 painted and critterized in Frontier colors in Germany or will it be done in Armadillo (AMA) ?



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16468 times:
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Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 2):
"That's it, isn't it? If he can do it in February, he can surely do it in March and so it is a quarterly operating profit. Just remarkable."


The best laid plans - there is now a major storm headed towards DEN.

The last big storm, the Christmas before JP resigned, cost Frontier several million dollars, so fingers crossed this one won't be so bad.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16412 times:

AMA: Paint
DEN: Interior
MCO: Live TV


- DBC


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16322 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
The best laid plans - there is now a major storm headed towards DEN.

The last big storm, the Christmas before JP resigned, cost Frontier several million dollars, so fingers crossed this one won't be so bad.

I think that between the numerous preemptive cancellations and the fact that while this blizzard will gum up the works for a day or so, I don't think it will shut down the airport for a few days like that storm did, the financial damage to the airline will be minimal.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16235 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
The 3rd A320, an ex German LTU bird is planned to ferry via Iceland, Bangor into Amarillo Texas on Friday the 27th.

I like to track the delivery flights. Anyone know the flight #?

Theoretically, it should be FFT 203.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16075 times:

My original post on this thread got deleted because of a low quality post. My point on this was to show what my last reply on the locked thread was so I can get feedback here. I am attempting to post this again.....

Quoting The Original "That Frontier Thread" (Reply 227):

Quoting Stburke (Reply 222):
And some great BBQ.

You were there too? This was for c-check crew only from my understanding per the announcement we got.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 224):
This is a direct exchange for 1 x A318, which is SM's intention - to replace as many A318 as he can with A320.

After reading the state of the airline transcript, SM has said that all of the 318's are gonna go. Yes, ALL of them.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 224):
I don't know how often they can pull this trick. I can think of ways they may be able to exchange one or two more frames, but after that I'm stumped.

I think we might see some additional 319's for 318's. SM did not say all of the 318's will be converted to 320's. He left that part out so we don't really know. I think we need more 319's.

On to this thread now...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
The 3rd A320, an ex German LTU bird is planned to ferry via Iceland, Bangor

 checkmark  Yes, that is true.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
into Amarillo Texas on Friday the 27th.

No, we will not be sending it to AMA yet. We will do our entry check first then send it to AMA for paint then to MCO for the Live TV install. The aircraft is to enter the Entry Check on or about April 3rd. Let me stress that we will be doing the entry check in LTU's colors. This is in a converstation between myself and our C-Check managers as well as the Maintenance Director himself.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 6):
Was the A320 painted and critterized in Frontier colors in Germany or will it be done in Armadillo (AMA) ?

No. But it will be done in AMA. I think we will apply the decal on the wingtip fences and tail here in DEN. But that could change. I still don't know who will be on the tail. Neither do the managers.

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 8):
AMA: Paint
DEN: Interior
MCO: Live TV

Entry check comes first, then AMA for paint, then LiveTV in MCO.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
I like to track the delivery flights. Anyone know the flight #?

Theoretically, it should be FFT 203.

This one, I don't even know. I don't work in Ops.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePlanePainter From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 56 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15986 times:

I think they should bring back either Sally or Bob for this one.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15895 times:
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The weekend update just happened on the website.

DEN-ANC gets an additional frequency on Saturdays from mid June until Labor day for a total of 8 x week.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15813 times:



Quoting PlanePainter (Reply 12):
I think they should bring back either Sally or Bob for this one.

We'll see. I'll find out when I go back into work in a week...



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15734 times:

I'd love to see F9 serve RDU.....just my 2 cents


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 15638 times:



Quoting PlanePainter (Reply 12):
I think they should bring back either Sally or Bob for this one

A bigger tail (I think) deserves a larger critter. I still think a humpback whale breaching would be awesome on. I'd accept the world largest critter the blue whale. There might not be enough tail area for that though.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 15603 times:



Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 16):

The chances are, we might be putting an animal up from the sold A319's. I am betting it will be one of those.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7716 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 15591 times:

Thinking SJO isn't doing that well...from the sale today:

International Travel (AirFairs pricing does not apply)

Fares listed are each way. Round trip purchase is
required by April 1, 2009 for travel through August 26, 2009.**

To/from Denver:
Cabo San Lucas $129
(1193 miles, 10.8 yield)
Cancun $139 (1673 miles, 8.3 yield)
Cozumel $139 (1700 miles, 8.2 yield)
Puerto Vallarta $129 (1327 miles, 9.7 yield)
San Jose, Costa Rica $149 (2418 miles, 6.2 yield)

Also for comparison...
Anchorage $219 (2403 miles, 9.1 yield)


They are only getting $10 more than Cancun to fly 40% further. Doesn't seem great to me...


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 15583 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 18):
Thinking SJO isn't doing that well...

What makes you think SJO isn't doing well? We are doing well on the route. There are sales on WebLynx all the time and also, FYI.... Mexico isn't the only destination being featured, ya know.....

Just because there are sales does not mean the route is doing bad.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7716 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 15575 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
What makes you think SJO isn't doing well? We are doing well on the route. There are sales on WebLynx all the time and also, FYI.... Mexico isn't the only destination being featured, ya know.....

Just because there are sales does not mean the route is doing bad.

The price makes me think it is doing bad. The lower the price, the more desperate they are to sell it. That's how that works. It's much further than anything else they fly (except ANC) and it is MUCH cheaper than ANC. It may be full, but the fares are poor. That's what I'm saying. I compare it to international because it is an international route and the domestic flights are MUCH shorter and cheaper to operate by virtue of not being international.

BTW, I think they made a mistake in OAG. It shows it suspended from April to November with resumption in December. Frontierairlines.com is selling it, though.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 15573 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
Frontierairlines.com is selling it, though.

In November? Not for me, not on the website.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 15569 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
The price makes me think it is doing bad. The lower the price, the more desperate they are to sell it. That's how that works.

Sorry for being disrespectful, but you think negative too much.... Especially when it comes to F9, and your A.net track record shows it.

And we are doing fine in SJO. This is nothing more than just a sale. Pretty routine at F9.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 15522 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
The lower the price, the more desperate they are to sell it.

I travel frequently so I'm constantly comparing fares. F9 fares are often hundreds of dollars less than the competition (in markets where they could/should only be a few dollars less) so, naturally, I always thought they were desperate and/or losing buckets of cash. However, they've made a small operating profit every month for the last four months, so they're doing something right.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7716 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 8 hours ago) and read 15476 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
It shows it suspended from April to November with resumption in December. Frontierairlines.com is selling it, though.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):

In November? Not for me, not on the website.

I saw it in July, but it shows canceled in OAG. F9 has been making so many filing errors lately I don't even post their changes any more because it's not worth the B.S.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
And we are doing fine in SJO. This is nothing more than just a sale.

I can see there is no point in bringing these kind of things up since apparently there is no connection between price/supply/demand in this thread.


25 Post contains images Mariner : I alerted you to that (or tried to) just a few weeks ago when I suggested that the summer schedule was not then carved in granite. And as we see from
26 SJOtoLIR : I would totally disagree in terms of the current relationship demand-supply. Their load factors correspond roughly at 95% and the service was recentl
27 F9mechanic : Don't belive everything they say, as a former 9 year employee, working both c-check and line mx, the leadership team in c-check cannot be trusted, th
28 Post contains links Mariner : Here's a fun one. This article in the WSJ is about the UK's Prince William flying economy. http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009...ily-opting-for-more-
29 Mcg : Has the new A320 arrived in Denver? I couldn't find a ferry flight from Europe on Flightaware.
30 Alphascan : Your initial post didn't consider price/supply and demand. You compared the yield for the lowest fare seat(s) in the DEN/SJO market vs. the DEN/CUN m
31 AirframeAS : Then why bring it up? Apparently, you are incorrect. You just keep finding and/or making up bad things about F9. Why?! Thanks. Those guys are pretty
32 Mcg : Thanks for the info.
33 Post contains links Mariner : Since the inevitable - and the obvious - has happened, I think it should be reported here: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...heY7W6s9qmQhQS4deeyc
34 F9Fan : I wonder if someone (e.g. the Costa Rican government/tourist board) is subsidizing this route. I know that the Jalisco state government subsidized a
35 AirframeAS : I'm not worried. I do not think we will change anything, let alone, respond to WN new route. The only response would be doing what we do best everyda
36 Post contains links Mariner : A chum in Germany says the aircraft is ex-D-ALTI, and is now all white. There is a photo of the aircraft - all white as of mid-March - on Planepictur
37 Stburke : 203 is limited to CAT II/III autolands at airports of altitudes at or below 2500 feet. Via paper modification it can be certified at or below 8000ft.
38 Tripleboom : So does this mean that N203FR must be hand flown into DEN in CAT II/III ILS conditions, but still can be set to autoland in CAT I or VFR conditions,
39 AirframeAS : That is why it is going to go through an entry check. And I am also working on this aircraft next week during the check! I am glad you were the one w
40 Mariner : I'm never sure if we can post pics from Planepictures here - some posts have been deleted because of it. There are about six photos of D-ALTI as all
41 AirframeAS : Thanks goodness!!! I don't want us paying for that!! And I am glad we are not.
42 Post contains links PlanePainter : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT7985
43 KingCavalier : I was under the impression that the aircraft would fly to Iceland first, but it appears the flight is going nonstop from DDL to BGR. I'm not sure wha
44 Post contains links PlanePainter : There may be a slight glitch in the site as it shows the flight from Juan Santamaria to Denver as a 320 the last couple days. The 320 has a 3000 nm ra
45 Mariner : Diverted to BDL instead of BGR? mariner
46 KingCavalier : You are getting your wish. Frontier is going back to BDL.
47 Mariner : Yee-haw! And with trans-Atlantic service. Pity it's a white tail. mariner
48 SJOtoLIR : According to the Great Circle Mapper, DEN-SJO is 2095nm following merely a straight line and disregarding any flight planning, winds and diversion pr
49 AirframeAS : I know you are joking, but it would be nice to be in BDL. My step-mother would LOVE that...that's for sure!
50 TDubJFK : Re: Frontier and the TV Show "Flight Attendant School" a few years back: does anyone know or ever see if any of the trainees (and trainers) they featu
51 F9darol : All of the trainers and a hand full of the flight attendants are still around. Amazon is selling the season on DVD. It was a good show! I wonder why
52 NZblue : I hate to admit it, but I'm one of those flight attendants
53 GentFromAlaska : I watched the show religiously. I do have a new idea for a show "Trick My Airbus" a take on show "Trick My Truck" For those not familiar with the sho
54 Stburke : Correct, but I just found out the RMO was signed so now it's certified up to 9500ft.
55 Post contains links KingCavalier : It looks like N203FR is now in DEN. The engine cowlings were painted and the billboard letters were applied in AMA. The decals on the tail and wing ti
56 SANFan : Question for you F9 folks. I'm curious if the fact that the new 320 is being scheduled (currently, anyway) to include a DEN-SAN [RON] SAN-DEN turn sho
57 KingCavalier : From what I've heard it is because it might take a while to install the TV's. I don't think F9 wants to commit the plane to a long LGA route with no
58 Stburke : I don't know the rationale behind it but it works out to a 130 seat increase. The first few days in the fleet, 203 flies some odd routes including a
59 Mastyc : I think the SAN may be rethought as the plane is in the system longer. They can basically use it anywhere on the west coast because of the timing of t
60 SANFan : First, I have a correction to what I posted earlier (due to my looking too quickly at the schedule I used to check for flight information): the 320 WI
61 Mariner : Yes, but not until the tv is installed, which isn't happening immediately. N203FR's schedule if a bit of a goulash until then, but it all settles dow
62 CBERFlyer : Say, does anyone know what is going on with DCA-DEN evening flight 725 on 4/29? I was booked on the flight, but was called yesterday by F9 reservation
63 F9mechanic : I was chatting with a friend from the line out in den, he was telling me that 203 will not be a friendly plane maintenance wise due to the plane havin
64 Mariner : I'm sure Frontier's excellent mx will cope. For me, it is a return to the good ol' days. Ten years ago, I first flew Frontier on a 737 that had previ
65 Post contains links ScottB : No one has posted the March traffic numbers so far, so here's the summary: # Revenue passenger miles decreased 24.0 percent to 716,094,000 and capacit
66 AirframeAS : I am standing next to the aircraft right now. It looks good. The animal is still not on the tail or wingtip fences. Both are still in white paint. I
67 Stburke : I just spoke with someone who is "in the know" and said the plane will in fact be the mustang "Sally".
68 AirframeAS : I dunno about that. I heard something else.....
69 Stburke : It honestly wouldn't surprise me if this person was pulling leg. haha. Guess we'll just have to wait!
70 Mariner : I don't think it is just the tv although that is part of it. I believe (?) that the seats for 203 are coming from 808. A photo of 203 (which looks ve
71 AirframeAS : That is the plan that I am hearing now. The seats from 808 are cloth, not leather. I am told that we will be taking the cloth off and putting on bran
72 DBCooper : According to my sources, 808's last day will be 22Apr. 203 enters service 25Apr...but without LiveTV. Some flights were cancelled 23-24Apr to cover th
73 AirframeAS : Incorrect. 808 is gone, the seats from 808 are sitting on the hangar floor right now. I saw the parts tag that documents the seats were removed from
74 DBCooper : AirframeAS: proof that 808 is still flying: F90863/08APR DEN 420P A A27 PHX 3 3 20 510P 9DEN/SHIP808 EQP318 *1627*HDQZFT 4DEN/OUT 1624 OFF 1638 *1739*
75 AirframeAS : I stand corrected. Also someone else here at the hangar told me the same thing. The seats that we have on the floor says 808, but they are cloth seat
76 Mastyc : Probably the original seats from 808. I'm sure they'll go back in it before it leaves. They did that with 801 and 804?? when they thought they were l
77 GentFromAlaska : I have a hunch SEA could fill a A320 especially with all of the pax arriving in SEA from Alaska (the State) and flyinjg beyond SEA. I seem to recall
78 AirframeAS : As of right now, the animal is being put on the tail of 203 and it is indeed Sally.
79 ScottB : There are beyond-perimeter restrictions; F9 doesn't hold an exemption to fly SEA-DCA.
80 Petteri : I'm glad to hear The Mustang Sally is back!! Now a F9 trip just needs to be planned!
81 KingCavalier : It was one year ago today that Frontier filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, and it has certainly been an interesting year. Looking back I thin
82 OnAClearDay : Regarding the additional A320: Was just checking the -->FA--> open time and saw several "D position" (A320 only) trips added during the last week of A
83 AirframeAS : I thought this was going on the LGA route and back with a RON in SAN.
84 Onaclearday : I'm certainly no expert on what it takes to cycle a/c through DEN, but are three 320s enough metal to cover the one daily SLC and LAS turn, the LGA r
85 Mariner : All explained in previous posts. The aircraft will be doing close to home routes once it enters service until about the middle of May. According to t
86 KingCavalier : I talked to some flight attendant friends today. It is a charter flight and will be the first time F9 has used the A320 for a charter. The flight wil
87 AirframeAS : I am still being told around here that 203 will not fly with pax without the LiveTV installed and running, yet you guys still say the total opposite.
88 Mariner : Okay. I think most people were saying that it probably wouldn't fly the long runs (LGA) without LiveTV and that was my understanding, too. As to the
89 AirframeAS : What I am saying is that people are telling me that 203 will not fly pax without the LiveTV, period. Not even the short hops at all. LiveTV helps gen
90 Mariner : As I said - okay. Just out of general interest, 801 flew for several weeks with the tv installed but not operational. Frontier gave out "free tv next
91 AirframeAS : I know, Im just saying..... ya know.... But that was like a very long time ago... Potter days...
92 Petteri : Is this still true? I though that the Live TV system no longer generated any revenue for F9 at all, other than a selling point to choose F9 in the fi
93 F9darol : 203 will fly without LiveTv for a few weeks. We have had some open "trips" come up in our "opentime". It shows DEN-SLC-DEN-LAS-DEN beginning on the 2
94 AirframeAS : We'll see....
95 AirportGuy1971 : Okay. I've heard that it will be on the line in late April, with the TV's installed, but not functional until mid-May. Something was said about credit
96 Cberflyer : Thanks for the info, KC. I was worried that it was a revenue issue, i.e. not enough bookings so cancel the flight. Hard to imagine that ever happenin
97 Cberflyer : Ugh... I hope 203 doesn't end up on any of my DCA-DEN legs in the next few weeks ... I'm spoiled by having the boob tube to stare at on my flights! G
98 NZblue : FYI....Aircraft 203 is officially in service as of today! I just saw it pull in to gate A40 here in DEN. Next stop is LAS. If I didn't know it came to
99 AirframeAS : Yes, it is. We finished up with the weight and balance last night, a very frustrating process for us. Thank you. You have not seen nothing yet... The
100 Mariner : And that's a great thing. When 203 first arrived I was hearing a lot of grumbles and grumbles because it wasn't in the best condition. It was a uniqu
101 AirframeAS : We did the best we can do to get this plane to our standards the last two weeks. I personally was a bit frustrated with the process, being my first e
102 AirportGuy1971 : So, can anyone confirm the status of the TV system? I have not heard anything other than the rumor that it'd be flying dark until mid-May...
103 NZblue : A/C 203 does not have an operational DirecTV system, though the seat back screens are installed. As such, the aircraft will fly primarily LAS and SLC
104 AirportGuy1971 : What about the Ascent and Summit passengers? Are they getting the mileage credit as well?
105 TheGreatChecko : Only if they are flying on a Classic or Classic Plus fare.
106 GentFromALaska : If memory serves me each press releases mentions F9 flies the youngest fleet in the sky. It may have changed over the last couple of years to "one of
107 Post contains links KingCavalier : Here's a big serving of crow for Enilria. The news continues to be good out of the Frontier camp. http://www.frontierairlines.com/fron...e-are/news-me
108 Mariner : Knock me down with a feather! I was hoping for a small operating profit - maybe one or two million if we were lucky - but I wasn't ready for this. I'
109 Dfanucci : Simply put ( and I know I'm gonna get slamed for it ) Frontier is the finest US based airline flying and I think these operating profits are showing i
110 AirframeAS : YAY! We're doing well! I wonder what the folks at UA is saying now.... Thanks to WN! It was hard and frustrating. And it got out onto the line ON TIM
111 KingCavalier : Heads up MSO - Frontier's N808FR is leaving the fleet and flying to Missoula in the morning.
112 AirframeAS : It's not tomorrow. Schedule in Production Control says May 1 departure.
113 F9Animal : Seriously, this is wonderful news. Not just wonderful news, but it clearly shows that Frontier Airlines is turning around. I think Menke and his team
114 KingCavalier : Check flight aware around 0630 tomorrow. The maintenance ferry is scheduled for a 0600 departure.
115 AirframeAS : That means nothing. I go by what Production Control says here at the hangar, and that is May 1.
116 KingCavalier : You are saying if you see a FFT tail going to MSO on Flight Aware in the morning then that means nothing? Nothing personal but you were wrong about N
117 F9fan : Well, I was about to say that it looks like our little airline will be able to survive this economic crisis. That was until this swine flu problem bro
118 Mcg : Why is 808 going to MSO? Is it's sale being completed in Montana to avoid sales tax? Thx
119 AirframeAS : I'm working on 808 as we speak, sir. I should know.
120 AirportGuy1971 : Not to mention the mysterious 3rd daily flight to DCA which never did, nor ever could exist...
121 AirframeAS : That, IMO, is calling me a liar. Please remember, we have little department called Production Control. They are the ones who know more than us mechan
122 AirportGuy1971 : Fine. Let's just call you "often wrong"...
123 KingCavalier : Your Production Control information seems to have been wrong on a couple of occasions now. FYI - I'm hearing 808 is now departing DEN about 8 hours l
124 DBCooper : MSO on May 1? Nope...it is heading to GWO...later today (April 30) if an issue can be resolved. 203 looks good...nice to have Sally back in the skies.
125 TheGreatChecko : The above is correct, 808 is scheduled to go to GWO sometime today. Checko
126 KingCavalier : Yep - I was told wrong. I was also told Mississippi this morning (not MSO), but I didn't know which city. I'm now hearing the departure has been push
127 Post contains links Mariner : A couple of days ago, SM said that they had seen only "a handful" of cancelations. I guess that has gone up since then, but in any case I doubt it is
128 Post contains links Petteri : I noticed this little blurb on cnn.com: Interesting. I knew that this was on the long term radar, but after the Chp. 11 filling I thought this plan wa
129 AirframeAS : I don't think F9 will do internet service. I believe the LiveTV is here to stay, its either that OR...the internet but not both. Offering both, IMO,
130 Petteri : Ever? Why not? It seems it would be suicidal in the long run to not offer internet service of some type down the road. This seems to be the direction
131 Mariner : I very much hope they do - and quickly. Otherwise they're going to be left behind. I don't see how offering the pax a choice and improving the passen
132 Post contains links ADent : Looks like FFT9808 left DEN at 10:45pm on 4/30 and arrived at GWO at 12:46am on 5/1. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT9808 Hasn't left yet per ht
133 GentFromAlaska : As it relates to returning to cities previously served. With the Winter Olympics in Vancouver BC a short ten months away. Should we expect F9 to retur
134 Petteri : I would hope that F9 finds a way to tap into the traffic that the Olympics will build. Although I must admit I have no idea how much of a draw the Ol
135 F9Animal : They should have already restarted it. I mean, the cruise season to Alaska is just getting started. They could tap into some of that traffic, and the
136 Petteri : More from the above quoted cnn.com article, I not sure why I didn't see this in there before! Good news!
137 AirframeAS : It would actually cost too much to run and more equipment would probably be needed to be installed on each aircraft. But I don't know.... I just dont
138 Post contains links and images Mariner : I understand that the basic techonology already exists within the modern LiveTV equipment: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/ru...ivetv-has-a-feels-l
139 AirframeAS : The point I was trying to make was what ADDITIONAL equipment would need to be added to the LiveTV to make the internet work. I am assuming more wirin
140 Mariner : I guess management thinks differently. mariner
141 KingCavalier : No surprise here personally for me. Lynx numbers aren't great, but a passenger yield of 19.60 vs mainline yield of 9.43 demonstrates with the Q400 is
142 Azstar : Average yield is still way lower than most other airlines. I don't think Frontier prices its product very rationally. They are often hundreds of dolla
143 Mariner : I would be interested to know which Frontier flights are "almost fully booked for months" - especially in this environment, where the clear trend is
144 Mariner : Just to revive the 203/LiveTV debate, according to the website the A320 (203?) is starting LGA this Thursday. The service reverts to A319 for a few da
145 AirframeAS : Interesting note: 203 did an IND turn last Saturday when I was on my way to PDX. I thought it was only going to do DEN-SLC-DEN-LAS-DEN and that was i
146 Azstar : Some locations are extremely seasonal. They are booked months in advance, not just Frontier , but all airlines. I paid 144.00 (Classic, including two
147 Mariner : I'd buy that - to some extent - of a few seasonal destinations, maybe, but I can't think of too many others that would be "almost fully booked months
148 Mariner : 203 has been on at least one IND run for about four or five days, but it is making a LAS run right now as I type. They seem to be switching it around
149 AirportGuy1971 : I would believe a check-in agent anecdotal reports on load factor, but trust me, I know several check-in agents at more than one airline. There's no
150 Petteri : Trust me, they may not have the time, but the inclination to due just that is most certainly there among some agents! Also at the smaller F9 stations
151 AirframeAS : A little bit of new news on the F9 LiveTV/WiFi update.... Working with LiveTV on the idea of having both at the same time, hopefully at the end of the
152 Cberflyer : Anyone have recent info on the status of LiveTV installation on 203? My partner was on flt 728 DEN-DCA this past Monday morning, and surprisingly 203
153 F9darol : AC 203 is now equipped with LiveTV. I believe it came back Orlando sometime last week.
154 Mariner : It was my understanding that 203 goes to MCO on Saturday, May 23, and returns on May 31 MCO-DEN. It is out of service or that week in MCO, I was told
155 F9darol : I stand corrected! I just saw that it is indeed going to MCO on the 23rd. Not sure what I was reading before! Sorry for the wrong info!
156 Cberflyer : Thank you, sir!
157 Post contains links AirportGuy1971 : News on the BK extension request It looks as if the request was granted... The Denver Business Journal is reporting the judge granted the petition to
158 AirframeAS : The only thing that needs to be installed is the LiveTV dish and the LiveTV avionics rack. That job should only take a few days at the most.
159 Mariner : A poster in another thread expressed mild concern about the bk extension, and generally there is a little confusion about it, so here's the deal. It
160 AirframeAS : IIRC, SM mentioned something about that in the last SOTA earlier this month.
161 Post contains links KingCavalier : Congratulations Frontier - 6th Consecutive Operating Profit http://www.frontierairlines.com/fron...e-are/news-media/press-releases.do Frontier begins
162 Mariner : Wonderful. The Wizard of Tower Road worked his magic again. mariner
163 DBCooper : I have it on good authority that a new station will be joining the F9 network in August. Any guesses? - DBC
164 TheGreatChecko : TUL, MSO, or FSD are my guesses.
165 KingCavalier : I too would like to see TUL added back. As far as other possibilities - how about GUC, EGE, AMA, IDA, BIS, LBB, MTJ (or any decent sized market withi
166 TheGreatChecko : That's the huge wildcard. However, I'm thinking it will be from DEN for the time being because it provides for the most "bang for the buck". There ar
167 KingCavalier : I guess I'm assuming it will be a Lynx station since Frontier is taking delivery of a new Q400 in July, but DBCooper didn't say Lynx. I guess it coul
168 TheGreatChecko : Unless they add frequencies somewhere, which they already have to ASE and COS, there's not too many places left to put an extra aircraft during the d
169 Mariner : I'd lean that way, too, except that the timing - August - complicates it. Any new routes then would miss out on the peak summer travel. This is espec
170 Post contains links Mariner : And here's a fun thing. Frontier going to 4 x daily DEN-MKE: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2009/05/25/daily69.html "Frontier Airlines said
171 Rampart : Me too. That is a historic regional route now missing. If not limited to Lynx (which it probably is), I think the former nonstops to SEA, STL, and ME
172 Hatbutton : Yes I have to admit I was really skeptical of him at first, but I am really starting to become a believer. I can only imagine the amount of pride F9
173 Post contains links and images LGA777 : New visitor to the thread with an F9 A-320 question. Everyone keeps mentioning 203 is the third 320 and it sounds like 201 is still flying? The reason
174 TheGreatChecko : Someone made a mistake over at Air Fleets. N201FR is S/N 3381 EC-LAJ is S/N 3881 Colorado is most definitely still strutting around the menagerie at D
175 LGA777 : Thanks, oh Great One, their usally pretty good over their. So next question, when is A-320 number 4 coming? From where ? BTW always been a big Frontie
176 TheGreatChecko : I'm definitely not great...my dog OTOH.... That's a question that only Sean Menke can answer. I can assure you it's somewhere up his sleeve, along wit
177 Mariner : RNO wouldn't be new. RNO was a contentious city in Frontier's network. When Jeff Potter was CEO at Vanguard, he announced MCI-RNO - and then left Van
178 F9Animal : CLE or BUF sure would be a nice addition to their route map. I think they still need to get back to MSY though.
179 KingCavalier : I don't know if CLE makes sense since F9 already serves CAK. It would be nice to see MSY return as well as BDL and SDF. I could see F9 using Lynx to
180 Mastyc : ugh... I hope it's MSY. I think august is when the 4th 320 arrives as well.
181 TheGreatChecko : That is a very possible scenario. I think there was some pushback from passengers in ABQ, especially against WN on the route. However, placing a Q on
182 Mariner : I'd like to see MSY come back, too, but it would be against 3 x daily United and at least 1 x daily Southwest. So not necessarily from DEN. MCI-MSY,
183 AirportGuy1971 : I'd love to see either SDF, MEM or LIT come back. Do it right this time, Forget the Focus city crud and develop them as stations in their own right. M
184 Post contains links F9fan : BUF sounds intriging. Good leisure destination (Niagara Falls, less than two hours from Toronto). PIT would be another strong possibility. There is a
185 AirportGuy1971 : There's almost nothing to the mid-south. Just watch instead of LIT they'll go back to TUL. Despite already going to OKC.
186 Mariner : Just to end (hopefully) the saga of 203 and LiveTV; It is now in the air on it's way back from MCO to DEN - flight #2675 - presumably with LiveTV inst
187 LGA777 : Well A-320 N203FR or as I like to call her "Mustang Sally 2" made her first visit to LGA today (June 1st) and while I have no way of knowing if the Li
188 Mastyc : These are the exact two reasons that MSY is a great idea and not such a great one. With LIT, BTR, and MEM gone it is just screaming to come back, but
189 AirportGuy1971 : It's the mid-south. It's got to be somewhere in the mid-south.
190 MSYtristar : MSY is not totally dominated by WN like it used to be.Yes, WN is still the pax leader there, but not by the wide margin it once had. Its flight ops ar
191 ScottB : AMA & LBB won't work, but it's not due to "retaliation" from WN. The bigger problem is that the traffic in these markets is relatively modest -- unde
192 Mariner : I might disagree, but since all this is all pure speculation, what the hey? I don't think I specified 1 x daily. Equally, I don't know if it needs ev
193 MSYtristar : I personally think that is overstated. Other markets support multiple carriers as well as F9, which generally has less frequency...but in most market
194 Mariner : And at the moment, speculation is all we have, partly because we have so few clues from SM. He did say, from the git go, there has to be more to Fron
195 MSYtristar : I agree. The previous attempts to do so haven't been very successful but of course that was a different airline back then with different management a
196 Post contains links Mariner : It's a fairly public slightly educated guess. On April 28, Sean Menke said: http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/tic...A&feed=AP&date=20090428&id=9845627
197 Dfanucci : Heh, that Menke fellow sure is showing why they fit the wizard hat upon his head... Just read a small blurb in USA Today regarding Southwest changing
198 Post contains links KingCavalier : The tone and style of the new ads is a lot more serious. They've been running these ads in Denver and I'm sure in all of their markets. One spot ends
199 Mariner : Obviously, I agree, and for all sorts of reasons, one of which is SM. It is hard to over-estimate what he has done. A year ago, it was the Convention
200 Mastyc : F9 can't tap into the customers going DEN-AMA-xxx or DEN-LBB-xxx but they can tap into the AMA-DEN-xxx and LBB-DEN-xxx which is the exact point of Ly
201 KingCavalier : My wish came true. Frontier is heading back to Tulsa. Frontier was quoted as saying it is the first new city they will add to their network in 2009.
202 Post contains links Atomsareenough : Here's an article about the new TUL service: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Fronti...-Add-New-prnews-15425911.html?.v=1 This is the schedule:
203 Post contains links Mariner : That hit me, too, and some of the press have picked up on it: http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2009/06/01/daily32.html "Tulsa is the first
204 Mcg : Why is the airplane spending 2:13 on the ground in TUL?
205 Azstar : Oops. If the RON flight is even 30 minutes late, the morning departure will be delayed due to mandatory 8 hours crew rest. Lynx is notoriously undepen
206 MASTYC : Not if both crews overnight.
207 Azstar : I guess the crew from the 1:47 PM arrival in TUL will depart at 6:30 AM the next morning, and the crew from 10:02 PM will depart from TUL at 4:00 PM.
208 KingCavalier : Unless the overnight crew is a standup, and then the 8 hour rule wouldn't apply, but I'm sure you know that already. What's your beef with Lynx? Do y
209 Azstar : Check todays flights. Almost every one was delayed. My friend is VP at a large software firm in Fargo. They have about 1100 employees. They ususally f
210 TheGreatChecko : Azstar, Lynx usually has better ontime performance than mainline. The past month has been an aberration for various reasons. I know I'll be attacked f
211 TheGreatChecko : Wow! Sometime F9 builds schedules like that. Why? It's as mysterious as what Sean Menke will pull out of his hat next. I'm guessing it will better co
212 Airbusaddict : Here in FSD they said they are working on getting F9 service either annouced or starting in September. I don't know if I can really put my hopes up o
213 Tripleboom : And FSD service from DEN is something my wife and I would desperately want. Her family lives in Yankton, SD, just a stone's throw away. But what's sc
214 Mcg : Checko, Thanks for the info.
215 TheGreatChecko : I've heard FSD come up a few times in the conversations I've had with those in the know. It was one of the first cities L4 was considering. Also, if w
216 Airbusaddict : You can not imagine how many passengers, friends, and family I have talked to that went down to SUX and used Frontier instead of using United up here
217 Mariner : I do. And I don't want to rain on FSD's parade, but if they do return to that area, I hope they go back to SUX. mariner
218 Airbusaddict : What necessarily do you think would happen if F9 did bring in L4 flights to FSD? Would UA change the whole DEN line up to mainline? What would be thei
219 Mariner : I've no idea. I find it difficult to work out what United is doing. They've dropped all mainline to DEN from such places as IND and STL, and, I belie
220 TUSAA : F9 needs to either add a late afternoon TUS-DEN flight' or move the late morning departure to a late afternoon. It doesn't seem convenient or competit
221 TheGreatChecko : It's the same story in GEG and I surmise a few other stations. However, the point right now is to make money and fly full airplanes, not build market
222 Airbusaddict : We are very lucky to continue having the mainline 737's and the Airbuses coming soon. Denver is a highly traveled market out of FSD, which might be t
223 TheGreatChecko : My only concern is that it pulls traffic out of OMA for F9. There might be marginal gains, but still I think overall some people will fly out of SUX
224 Airbusaddict : However if SUX was restarted, like you said that would almost make SUX and OMA competing for F9 service, with SUX drawing some FSD travelers to fly o
225 Mariner : I'm not advocating they go back there - either SUX or FSD. I think the Q's can be used for other interesting flying, and, hopefully, for some non-DEN
226 F9Fan : Didn't F9 offer codeshares with ZK out of AMA? You couldn't go DEN-AMA, but you could connect through DEN. I'm very surprised that WN doesn't do a DE
227 TheGreatChecko : No, not at all. I think, UA notwithstanding, it would be a good market that would hold it's own. The question is how long will UA and F9 duke it out.
228 Airbusaddict : Do you think if FSD didnt have mainline, F9 would be in there?
229 TheGreatChecko : It has nothing to do with mainline. It has to do with the amount of traffic UA moves out of FSD and the perception those passengers are so loyal they
230 ScottB : They are flying DAL-AMA-DEN (and vice-versa) but not DAL-LBB-DEN. I'm a bit surprised WN hasn't added either DEN-LBB-DAL or DEN-LBB-AUS (the LBB-AUS
231 AirframeAS : We do have a codeshare with ZK, IIRC. But as far as AMA, I don't know. On a side note: I do know our station agreements for non-revving on ZK to MKE
232 SANFan : Hey folks, question regarding the 320 and SAN. I see that the SAN-LGA-SAN schedule is already "ruined" but the RON at Lindbergh seems to be remaining
233 Mariner : I'm a bit confused, SANFan - I'm not sure what your question is. mariner
234 AirframeAS : We have added a new employee to our F9 family, again comes from AC. Daniel Schuz (I think...) comes in as the VP for Revenue Planning.
235 DBCooper : ?? The sked was always SAN-DEN-LGA / DCA-DEN-SAN to prevent a closed-loop aircraft. - DBC
236 Post contains links Mariner : Daniel Schurz. Press release here: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...story/06-08-2009/0005040220&EDATE= There are a couple of interesting things
237 SANFan : My main point was why the initially posted schedule would have been SAN-LGA-SAN, which had the 320 flying a closed loop every day, RON at Lindbergh.
238 AirframeAS : This 320 routing has the flying on the last flight of the day to SAN out of DEN and the first flight of the day (the next morning) out of SAN to DEN.
239 AirframeAS : Yeah, that is who I was talking about. (BTW, I missed your post...) AirTran, perhaps? Maybe this full codeshare thing we were talking about is probab
240 Post contains links Mariner : It has been announced that Republic will act as sole sponsor of Frontier's emergence: http://newsticker.welt.de/?module=smarthouse&id=905911 Which mea
241 Azstar : I would say "bye bye Q400, hello E170".
242 AirframeAS : I hope not!!!
243 KingCavalier : Are you joking? - Those Q400's are popular. Republic will love those planes. Yes, I'm sure the E170's will be back in DEN.
244 Mariner : I wouldn't. mariner
245 Racers22 : I have a feeling that eventually it will be bye bye Airbus, hello E190 and Midwest...
246 AirframeAS : We'll have to just see how things play out in the next year or so.....
247 Mariner : I can't work out where this is coming from. Frontier's CEO has already said that the E170's aren't economical (for Frontier) with oil at this price.
248 Post contains links Mariner : Now that the hoo-haa about Republic is dying down a bit, time to look to the future. GJT is ending on September 14: http://www.gjfreepress.com/article
249 AirframeAS : I believe HDN ended in May, IIRC. By who? We are mainline.
250 KingCavalier : You're mainline. Lynx isn't. Mariner is hearing rumors of a new mainline city, not a new Lynx city such as TUL.
251 Mariner : Seasonal service to HDN ended on May 14 - but note the word "seasonal". The debate was whether it would come back next winter or not. Unsurprisingly,
252 MSYtristar : Any hints? Or, if not, any personal preferences?
253 Mariner : Sorry, not there. Not yet anyway. Eventually, I would expect some of the cut cities to be restored (largely because SM has suggested it) but seasonal
254 Mariner : The point should also be made that the winter schedule should be coming out soon, but at the moment it is a fluid thing. If - stress "if" there are to
255 NZblue : As per today's press release, Lynx will begin service to the following markets September 14: ABQ, SLC, and OMA. Lynx will also be discontinued to GJT
256 Dfanucci : Enjoy: DENVER, June 24 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Today, Frontier announced its fall 2009 schedule. Highlights include increased frequencies to Las Ve
257 Atomsareenough : That's a shame. I fly there a couple of times a year, usually on Frontier/Lynx if possible. Ah well.
258 F9fan : With the exception of SMF, these all look like seasonal adds to me. At least they aren't taking anything away (yet). Now with Republic as the owner,
259 Mariner : Ah you tease, you. You know how to fire me up. I would love to see a few routes from IND. Over the past few years, I have sensed an almost "hostile"
260 Frontierflyer : Hey Mariner, I have 100,000 miles in my early returns account I need to use before Sep when F9 pulls out of ELP, Want to come along? Would love to hav
261 TheGreatChecko : I think the issue with ELP isn't that things are bad, its that its a long route that ties up the airplane for almost five hours. That's a lot of time
262 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : An advantage i see to selecting a focus city other than COS would be in bad weather there would be an alternate airport to route some people thru for
263 Rampart : Actually, not as often as you'd think. Sometimes the weather systems are identical, but usually, when one is getting weather, the other is not. Stati
264 Mariner : I'm glad to hear it. I have old chums in Cuidad Juarez, from my Mexico days, who have been sending some disturbing stories and they've suggested ther
265 Post contains links WILCO737 : Thread will be locked, continue with part 3 here: That Frontier Thread, Part 3 (by WILCO737 Jun 25 2009 in Civil Aviation) Thanks
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