Panova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 280 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
Always nice to see someone get new air service. Today March 24, 5 found trips a day, Lancaster (LNS) to BWI, on Cape Air's 9-pax Cessna 402s. First service since USAir Express left in September 2007.
Interline agreements with all but Southwest and Air Tran, and handling at BWI by CO. No baggage fees and free parking at LNS, which for the frugal folks in Pennsylvania Dutch country, is a big deal.
Immaculate Amish farms on just about all sides of the runways, and this is the start of lots of mules and equipment working in the fields. Makes you want to check your map to be sure which country you're in when you land at LNS. Good luck, LNS, you'll need it.
Not when they have reasonable options and taxpayer money is used to support it. If the market can support the service, it would be wonderful. Propping up a money losing route with federal finds simply so someone can live in a remote area and only have a 20 minute drive to the airport is just asinine. Having a 30 to 90 minute drive to the nearest airport isn't too much of an inconvenience for most people.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3854 times:
Quoting Panova98 (Thread starter): Interline agreements with all but Southwest and Air Tran, and handling at BWI by CO. No baggage fees and free parking at LNS, which for the frugal folks in Pennsylvania Dutch country, is a big deal.
The flights will fail. Without feed to WN and FL, all cost-effective service to LNS is moot. What a waste of taxpayer dollars. If this is what Cape Air will be providing to PIT, go away and stay away!
Kleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3796 times:
Oh come on, "essential air service" to LNS? That city has a railroad station and is just an hour away from PHL and about half an hour to MDT (where the airport has its own train station I believe). Great Circle Distance MDT-LNS: A whopping 25 statue miles. That is ludicrous.
And if anything - why BWI? Can't connect anywhere decent given the interline agreements they have. I mean, yes, you can pick up luggage and recheck it - blah blah. But for that distance you might as well take the car and drive to PHL (59mi great circle) or MDT (25 mi great circle) - or to BWI (68mi) for that matter since it's really not that far. Why not route it to EWR or IAD or DCA where there is an actual distance to fly and there are connections? I mean, yes, some of these are slot controlled but in that case I'd rather not start the flight in the first place...
A340Crew From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
Does Lancaster really need EAS?????? I went on a trip to Lancaster this past winter and flew into MDT, which was only about a 25 minute drive away. I think having an airport with in 25-45 minutes (depending where you are in Lancaster) , which is served by regional carriers for just about all of the majors isn't in need of EAS Service.
Planeguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1077 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
As a former Philly resident I once drove to LNS for a flight to PIT. The cost was tiny compared to the US PHL-PIT flights (this was before WN started in PHL). I loved having the B-1900 nearly empty. A relaxing flight.
Panova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 280 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3676 times:
Clearly a classic case study of use of EAS funds, which I believe is about $1.2 mil. a year. Of course, every EAS case is a little different.
Lots of political pull to get EAS funding way back, as LNS didn't qualify originally because it is only 72 driving miles from PHL, 3 miles below the "at least 75-mile" criteria. [Senator Spector does have pull!] Regarding driving to BWI, regardless of the distance, the drive during morning and evening is not easy. MDT is certainly not that far away, or not that bad of a drive, and there is train service,
Cape Air ties the LNS service in with its Hagerstown, Md. flights. That any airport authority would decide LNS to BWI, Cape Air, and a 9-pax 402 plane are the answers to what they are looking for is doubtful. They seemingly checked on most everything, and this is the best they could get. Five RTs a day, one-way fares as low as $49, lots of pretty decent joint or combination fares with AA, CO, DL, NW, UA, and US via BWI don't seem too bad. Not that hooking up with WN and FL wouldn't be nice, but that's never going to happen, and not for 9 pax per flight.
Exactly who is going to use this service is not at all clear, as if the local authority truly knows, and how it will be marketed is not clear either. Newly lengthened runway is nice. Lancaster is pretty much blue collar, with a low unemployment rate, but lots of professionals and doctors with money moving in. It's opening a convention center in a couple of weeks and did have the good fortune to be rated number 27 on the mid-size US cites list of best places to live, work and retire. Competition beating them out included Provo, Boulder, Madison, Ann Arbor, and Colorado Springs, but it did place one spot ahead of Naples, Florida...so, OK I guess.
Alianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3641 times:
Quoting Rafflesking (Reply 1): When I hopped in a cab and asked for the airport, he asked me if I meant PHL or MDT
RDG is also very close to Lancaster, and almost centered between PHL and MDT, and ABE. It used to be serviced by US, but now seems to only be charter service. For the Philly suburbs, RDG would be more convenient than ACY, but, ABE is also about the same distance and probably would get second place in southeast Pa. after PHL. Although there is PNE within the city, but with their noise abatement restrictions I'm not sure how large an a/c could use that airport.
AirPortugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3104 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3576 times:
As a Cape Air cheerleader, I say best of luck! I hope this and every route they fly works for them. I for one am excited about MVY/ACK-HPN service!
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 4): If this is what Cape Air will be providing to PIT, go away and stay away!
Your a poor example of an aviation enthusiast. I think anyone else on this planet would be happy to see something new. But you might be right...since US couldnt deal with PIT. Why would anyone want to go there?
NWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4862 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3511 times:
As much as I love new service, is Lancaster worthy enough to have EAS service? $15 and an hour later, you can be in Philly's 30th Street Station after getting off Amtrak's Keystone or Pennsylvanian, which leaves about every hour or so, and you'll be a train-ride away from PHL, where there's more destination options, or transfer to another train down to Baltimore or DC if you oh so desire. At least there's a new excuse to hop on the train to BWI on my next trip to DC!
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
BTCCMan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3432 times:
I was fortunate to fly on Cape Air 4 times today - the inaugural 5:30AM from Hagerstown to BWI, the inaugural BWI to LNS and then the reverse route. All I can say is what a wonderful bunch of people, from the flight crew to those at check in - they ALL genuinely cared and went out of their way to make it a personal experience. It brings into stark relief the nonchalant attitude at United recently at Dulles, where I was made to feel almost insignificant on more than one occasion on the same flight. EAS or not, good luck to them, and if the full load out on the 5:30AM from Hagerstown was anything to judge by, it will be a resounding success. For those in doubt, stump up $39 and give it a try!
Quoting Planeguy727 (Reply 8): As a former Philly resident I once drove to LNS for a flight to PIT. The cost was tiny compared to the US PHL-PIT flights (this was before WN started in PHL). I loved having the B-1900 nearly empty. A relaxing flight.
Quoting Panova98 (Reply 9): Exactly who is going to use this service is not at all clear, as if the local authority truly knows
When I was a college student during the 1980's (1984 - 1989), I went to school in California and would fly back home for the summer and for Christmas break. It was much more convenient for my step - mother to pick me up from LNS. She drove me to PHL a few times but LNS was much closer and more convenient. Driving to PHL from LNS takes about one hour and forty five minutes. Even the drive to MDT is a bit of a hassle on route 30. There aren't any nice interstates in Lancaster, just small roads which are in poor condition.
Taking the train to/from PHL is also an option but that involves taking SEPTA to the 30th Street Station from PHL, then taking AMTRAK to the Lancaster train station from the 30th Street Station which is difficult if one is carrying suitcases and a carry on bag.
This is important. The only reason I knew about flying to and from LNS is because I was "in the know". It is important to advertize. Lancaster City and County could provide the Airport Authority with billboards on which to promote this service. Putting ads in the local newspapers and magazines will also be helpful.
Agreed and let's hope this route is used and works.
One more thing. For those of you going to Lancaster, are frugal, and travelling very light, the number ten bus stops in front of LNS and goes into town or into Lititz, depending on which way you want to go. You can get a transfer and take another bus to another part of Lancaster. The RRTA is a pretty good (and inexpensive) way of getting around Lancaster County.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3340 times:
Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 12): Your a poor example of an aviation enthusiast. I think anyone else on this planet would be happy to see something new. But you might be right...since US couldnt deal with PIT. Why would anyone want to go there?
It has nothing to do with being an aviation enthusiast. I'm tired of taxpayer money being wasted on this crap. No one will utilize the service once the general public realizes they have to re-claim their luggage and check-in again. Mesa had a proposal that won in MCK and EAR with service to OMA for the very same purpose, also without interline agreements.
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 15): What a/c type was used on this route? Allegheny Commuter used Shorts 330's on the LNS - PHL route which I took during the 1980's.
Alianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3278 times:
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 15): Taking the train to/from PHL is also an option but that involves taking SEPTA to the 30th Street Station from PHL, then taking AMTRAK to the Lancaster train station from the 30th Street Station which is difficult if one is carrying suitcases and a carry on bag.
Not to mention that your load (and wallet) may be lighter after using the SEPTA train between PHL and 30th St. station, depending on the characters also riding the train!! I've heard of robberies on that route which do not make it worthwhile to use.
The Lancaster area is one of the highest visited tourists destinations in America. When checking a few years ago, it was about number 5 in the country, with something like 4 million tourists annually, including internationals, the majority from Britain, Australia, Japan, Germany and Spain. (I met a tourist there who was from Mongolia!!)
If the new route is promoted well, it would be an alternative for these tourists who otherwise have to drive to Lancaster or take a bus tour, or take Amtrak and then have somebody pick you up. At least, LNS has car rental service. But, it has got to be promoted properly or it will go nowhere.
Panova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 280 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3211 times:
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 11): Do the Amish even use air transport? I know they take Amtrak where possible. I am not that familiar with Amish and Mennonite customs.
The Amish of Lancaster County, and whose farms adjoin the airport runways, with but rare exception, do not fly. They have no cars, only horses and buggies, of gray color. But, they travel all over the US, visiting familes, using vans. buses, and trains. They often go to Europe, using ships. Every other year, the LNS airport has an open house and you'll see Amish and their children all over the place, watching and checking out the military planes. It's quite something to see!
The main group of local Mennonites fly everywhere. Their dress is just about the same as everyone else, but there are strains of Mennonites that still use horses and buggies, black in color. They, too have farms right next to the airport. I believe they have no religious restrictions against flying. [Of course, there's a local strain of Mennonites who have cars that have all the chrome painted black. Whatever!]
Interesting...bicycles are forbidden by the Amish [scooters, rollerblades, OK], but not by any of the Mennonites, even the horse a buggy group. The Floyd Landis family [you may have seen them during Floyd's Tour de France legal mess] live not too far from the airport and are very conservative dressers. They drive autos, but you'll see them and their friends on bicycles most everywhere.
Marketing is a big issue. The local airport authority really doesn't have much of a budget to market much of anything, even if they knew who the potential customers are, which I seriously doubt they do. [I'll bet most smaller markets are the same.] And then, there's always the fighting between local airport groups. I doubt there's any cooperation among Harrisburg, Philadelphia, BWI, and the LNS authoriites. Nothing new, but wouldn't it be nice if everyone would work together to boost the advantages each has, and to work together with rail officials to get more and better commerce.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7504 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3201 times:
Cape Air is a cool little airline. This is certainly more cost effective than B-1900 service, which is overkill believe it or not for many markets. Cape Air's piston powered 402s are a more efficient choice for the really small EAS markets.
Buddys747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 490 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3097 times:
I did see a TV commercial on the local news about this service. I live in Lancaster County but I must say, there are several options to choose from that don't require a long drive. I can get to MDT in 10 minutes from the NW, in the south BWI is over an hour away, and anything east is 45-minutes to an hour to MDT and 1 to 1+1/2 hours to Philly. If it was not EAS money then it wouldn't be that bad of a service. However, MDT has a hard time getting new service because of PHL and BWI and there proximity, does Lancaster really need it's own service ? Gotta give them credit for trying it, I guess time will tell.
SaabFA71 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2982 times:
This is great news for LNS. I really hope the service does well there and possibly even opens the doors down the road for LNS to once again attract a full-service regional airline that offers connections. Since Cape Air has reciprocal agreements with Continental, perhaps Commutair or Colgan Air can come in and provide CO Connection service to EWR. The ground staff can work both airlines for ticketing and ramp service; LNS will have connections both domestic and international out of EWR while the Cape Air provides the direct flights to BWI. I can see that happening. The airport just has to come up with a way to attract them and keep them there. Continental Connection and Cape Air would make a pretty good team out of LNS I think; travelers will have greater choices when they fly out of LNS and commerce in the Lancaster area will benefit.
I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
KLNS From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 6 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2895 times:
I live a mile from the end of the runway, these guys have flown over my house as all ILS approach planes do here and I love it! EAS or not. Other options or not, I think we all can and should appreciate the spread of aviation. P.S. Get me a job!