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Don't Use The Window Exits In A Water Landing?  
User currently offlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

Last week I was on a United A320, and the safety video said something I don't recall ever hearing in safety videos/demonstrations on other airlines/aircraft (It had been years since I'd flown with United). It said "In the event of a water landing, do not use the window exits (unless instructed to by a crewmember)."

What would be the reason for saying this? Is this particular policy unique to United? Like I said, I don't recall other airlines saying that, even on other A320s. And then there's that elephant in the room -- the US Airways crash in the Hudson. As I recall they did use the window exits. Actually, now that I think about it, this was the first time I'd been on an A320 since that accident; might they have changed the evacuation procedures in responce to that accident for some reason?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

320 OWE's are the primary exits in a water ditching at my airline. They say the rear most doors are not to be used. Forward doors then last resort the cockpit windows. Maybe you misunderstood??


Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

I found the video: http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0tmi0Bd4eHs

It definately says "Overwing exits sould not be used in a water landing..." It's just after the 1:30 mark.


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4096 times:



Quoting Yflyer (Reply 2):
It definately says "Overwing exits sould not be used in a water landing..." It's just after the 1:30 mark.

maybe because there's a higher chance to get stuck with the lifewest?



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

They are used as secondary exits because the slides that deploy from aft of the wing are NOT detachable...and therefore, would go down with the plane if it sinks. 1L&R and 2L&R are the primaries since they are detachable from the aircraft......then the OWEs.....then the cockpit windows as last resort. If you look at the exit row bins, you will see a bin that is about 3 inches wide on each side; that is where escape lines are housed just in case.

UAL loves to do things differently....lol.

[Edited 2009-03-25 12:22:40]

User currently offlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3966 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
They are used as secondary exits because the slides that deploy from aft of the wing are NOT detachable...and therefore, would go down with the plane if it sinks. 1L&R and 2L&R are the primaries since they are detachable from the aircraft......then the OWEs.....then the cockpit windows as last resort. If you look at the exit row bins, you will see a bin that is about 3 inches wide on each side; that is where escape lines are housed just in case.

Thanks for that explanation. Is that true of all A320s that those slides don't detach, or is that something unique about how United configred them?

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
UAL loves to do things differently....lol.

Do you think there's a risk that passengers might get confused because of that difference? Suppose hypothetically someone connected fom a UA flight to another airline that does things like Airman99o's. If there was a water landing that passenger might hesitate when told to go to the overwing exit because they're thinking "But on my last flight they told us not to do that."


User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Water evacuation procedures really vary from airline to airline. Generally, the wing exits on narrow body aircraft with slides shouldn't be used since the slides can't be detached and used as flotation devices or rafts. However, if the aircraft is rapidly filling with water get out any way you can and open any exit as long as the exit isn't below the water line. The aft doors are likely to become unusable.


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3621 times:



Quoting Yflyer (Thread starter):
It said "In the event of a water landing, do not use the window exits (unless instructed to by a crewmember)."

That makes sense...
Crew members have control over the main doors they man, so it would make sense for these to be the primary evacuation points. Note that it says "unless instructed by crew member".
So if forward or rear doors were blocked, i'm sure crew members would advise pax to use window exits if required.


User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Well on LH the standard procedure for Airbus A320/319 water evacuation is using the overwing exits as preferred exit then followed by all cabin doors.

LH states that our Airbus A320/319 fleet isn't equipped with rafts. The main cabin doors are equipped with slides which maybe detached and used as a flotation device but they are not full rafts.

The routes the A320 fleet flies within the LH network make it very unlikely that a ditching would occure somewhere on the ocean or open water. A ditching is more likely close to an airport or at least civilisation and it's a lot safer to stay on the wing as long as possible instead of going into the slides which would only hold a few people. The majority of people would go into the water anyway.

So better stay on the wing until help arrives or at least as long as possible.

Best regards

L1011Lover


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11214 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

I bet the Hudson landing is going to mess all this up because when people find themselves in the water, they're going to think "I saw all those survivors on the wings" and immediately head to the wings.


Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineJQFlightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3453 times:

although overwing exits are emergency exits, they are usually secondary exits, and the doors used as main emergency exits, so UA is right in saying dont use them unless instructed  Smile


Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3433 times:



Quoting JQFlightie (Reply 10):
although overwing exits are emergency exits, they are usually secondary exits, and the doors used as main emergency exits, so UA is right in saying dont use them unless instructed

Well from LH's perspective it's just the other way around. When it comes to A320 water evacuation of course. Other than that the A320 main cabin doors are used as main emergency exits.

Different airlines, different cultures, different view of certain things... even though they're close partners... lol...


User currently offlineJQFlightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3394 times:



Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 11):
Well from LH's perspective it's just the other way around. When it comes to A320 water evacuation of course. Other than that the A320 main cabin doors are used as main emergency exits.

Different airlines, different cultures, different view of certain things... even though they're close partners... lol...

this is very true. different countries different regulations i guess..



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3344 times:



Quoting Yflyer (Reply 5):
Do you think there's a risk that passengers might get confused because of that difference? Suppose hypothetically someone connected fom a UA flight to another airline that does things like Airman99o's. If there was a water landing that passenger might hesitate when told to go to the overwing exit because they're thinking "But on my last flight they told us not to do that."

Excellent point and I totally agree that, yes, it is an inherent danger, especially when one is connecting within an Alliance (say LH from DUS to FRA and UA FRA to ORD to PHX) with the first and last segments on an A319/320. Or even a domestic/Canada US/UA connection.

But remember each carrier is authorized to operate an aircraft on it's certificate based on that airline's procedures and proving runs. For example, DL and NW 757s are the same frames, same doors and same emergency exit locations (well, except the 5500 config but lets not go there). ...until those certs and procedures are approved and proven, you will not see a DL FA on a NW flight and visa versa. Apparently this is what UA drafted for the FAA and this is what the FAA approved. I think a blanket policy would be nice...but this is the Federal Government we are talking about  Silly


User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

For a slideraft configuration (that is the slides double as rafts - as per the US 320 that ditched) the primary exits are the main door exits. In this circumstances the rear of the aircraft was filling with water - hence the overwing exits being used.

Some airlines (obviously those without combined sliderafts as these can only be fitted at main doors) believe that the rear cabin would almost always sit below the water line. In this case the overwing and forward doors are used. I have noticed many European airlines only use the overwing exits, perhaps due to the door sill being higher?

Quoting JQFlightie (Reply 10):
although overwing exits are emergency exits, they are usually secondary exits,

When JQ first started using their 320s on overwater flights they had none fitted with sliderafts. So ALL exits were primary exits in a ditch and individual life rafts (seven of them in total!) were deployed from each of them.

It all depends on the operator and the configuration onboard. You cannot have a 320 with sliderafts and use the overwings as a primary exit. With slide-only devices and/or separate liferafts (stowed in overhead bins) it is up to the operator and regulator.


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