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So What Caused The Hole In The Engine?  
User currently offlineToering From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9302 times:

Anyone have any idea what caused the hole in the engine of this NWA 752?

http://www.startribune.com/local/41836157.html

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCAL764 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9255 times:

Oh wow, what a story. Could've been a bird strike? I hate to state the obvious, but...


1. Fly to Win 2. Fund Future 3. Reliability 4. Work Together CO: Work Hard, Fly Right...
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9235 times:



Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
Anyone have any idea what caused the hole in the engine of this NWA 752?

Possibly a ground service cart or something bumped into it and weakened it enough to where it probably gashed open in flight. Or it could just be fatigue. But I don't see how it would cause a "thud" during the flight. Also it's a good thing the captain diverted, not so much because there was any danger but because I bet NW would've gotten sued had they hadn't done so for "endangering the lives of pax"  Yeah sure


User currently offlineGLEN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9118 times:



Quoting CAL764 (Reply 1):
Could've been a bird strike?

Bird strike from the side? Must have been quite a fast bird...



"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3597 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8990 times:

Wouldn't have had to hit straight on - could have been a glancing blow, which would still have transferred a lot of energy.


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8934 times:

Little green guys out on the wing ripping of pieces of wing and flinging them through the engine?  Silly  flamed 

For those who are not in the know, google "Twilight Zone William Shatner"  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineCFMTurboFan From Canada, joined May 2007, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8895 times:



Quoting GLEN (Reply 3):
Bird strike from the side? Must have been quite a fast bird...

Looks like he was also on oxygen being that high up!!!!!


User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 594 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8462 times:

Considering the altitude, it wasn't a bird. It could have been a piece of ice from elsewhere on the aircraft that very luckily didn't go into the compressor blades.

User currently onlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5389 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8439 times:



Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
Anyone have any idea what caused the hole in the engine of this NWA 752?

It's that damn "space debris", just de-orbited a bit.... It's bad enough that it is causing problems for the ISS and satellites but now this? We have got to clean up that place!!
 drunk 

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1982 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8414 times:

While highly unprobable, birds can fly up as high as aircraft, the highest bird strike every recorded was at 37,900 feet. I would assume that other birds have flown higher, this guy was just unlucky.


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6440 times:

Yeah i'm not sure if I believe he heard a thud. He probably just saw it and decided to call the flight attendant, adding the "thud" as a way to spice up the story


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5860 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 10):
Yeah i'm not sure if I believe he heard a thud. He probably just saw it and decided to call the flight attendant, adding the "thud" as a way to spice up the story

I doubt that he made it up, but it's possible he imagined it. Besides, the definition of "thud" is very broad--could've hit another part of the airframe on its departure (doubtful based on lack of other damage evidence), could've been a flight attendant banging a service cart...



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21458 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5563 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
For those who are not in the know, google "Twilight Zone William Shatner"

And for those who are REALLY in the know, watch the WW2 era "Gremlins from the Kremlin" cartoon that the Twilight Zone was "borrowing" from.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037236/

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 11):
I doubt that he made it up, but it's possible he imagined it. Besides, the definition of "thud" is very broad--could've hit another part of the airframe on its departure (doubtful based on lack of other damage evidence), could've been a flight attendant banging a service cart...

Metal makes very loud popping noises when it fails. Watch some material failure tests sometime and you'll see. Pretty impressive, as the energy is released as heat and sound. Very loud. Muffled by the air and fuse and insulation, could have been a thud.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNCB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Could be one of the following:

-material fatigue causing local failure
-impact from object (aircraft part, icing, bird, small meteor debris, etc...) or lightning
-a fan blade or other internal fast rotating component gave up to centrifugal forces


User currently offlineFlyLKU From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4959 times:



Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 9):
While highly unprobable, birds can fly up as high as aircraft, the highest bird strike every recorded was at 37,900 feet. I would assume that other birds have flown higher, this guy was just unlucky.

Must have been spit out of the top of a thudnerstorm.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineCelticMech From Ireland, joined Oct 2008, 216 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4489 times:



Quoting NCB (Reply 13):
-a fan blade or other internal fast rotating component gave up to centrifugal forces

Not a hope im afraid...If any internal rotating piece gave up, the whole engine would give incredibly severe vibrations and most likely get a hell of a lot worse in a matter of seconds. The Whole Compressor assembly would be so badly out of balance if even a single blade was lost, it wouldnt bare thinking about. Even a few gramms of difference in mass on an incorrectly balanced Fan Assembly can cause havoc in terms of Vibration


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4372 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 10):
Yeah i'm not sure if I believe he heard a thud. He probably just saw it and decided to call the flight attendant, adding the "thud" as a way to spice up the story

May I ask on what basis you are disbelieving, or something being "spiced up"? I would respectfully suggest someone being there is a bit more accurate on what transpired. Just genuinely curious to your reason as, looking at that photograph, one would certainly be expecting to hear a thud at the very least......yet you don't think so.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21458 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

I'm trying to find a youtube video of a metal material failure test. Back when I was in Materials Science lab, we didn't have access to cell phone cameras and such. It was amazing just how loud snapping metal was, as well as a wood stud failing under compression. Ouch!


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3473 posts, RR: 67
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3753 times:

My guess would be a hole in the duct furnishing inlet lip anti-ice. The released high pressure air then caused the cowling to rupture.


Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21458 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3671 times:



Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 18):
My guess would be a hole in the duct furnishing inlet lip anti-ice. The released high pressure air then caused the cowling to rupture.

That sounds plausible. Have no idea on what systems are where, but I assume you do, so sounds like as good an answer as any, and much more likely than a bird at altitude bouncing off the fuse and into the side of an engine like ricochet rabbit.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFighterPilot From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1370 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3120 times:



Quoting NCB (Reply 13):
-a fan blade or other internal fast rotating component gave up to centrifugal forces

If it was a fan blade that engine would have shook itself off the engine pylon.

Cal  airplane 



*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3038 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
Metal makes very loud popping noises when it fails

The material in this area is composite.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 18):
My guess would be a hole in the duct furnishing inlet lip anti-ice. The released high pressure air then caused the cowling to rupture

That would be my guess, as the engine anti-ice on a PW2037 is about 12 inches aft of this damage.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21458 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2890 times:



Quoting Planefxr (Reply 21):
The material in this area is composite.

Composites make very loud popping noises when they fail (at least in certain failure modes)...
Wood makes a very loud popping noise when it fails...
Packing peanuts do not make a very loud popping noise when they fail...

Seriously though, are all the connections composite? Rivets, everything? The claim was that this guy was making up the fact he heard a thud sound, just trying to find the parts that would make a noise on failure.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2763 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
Seriously though, are all the connections composite? Rivets, everything? The claim was that this guy was making up the fact he heard a thud sound, just trying to find the parts that would make a noise on failure.

The anti-ice connections are tubes/ducting that are clamped together and yes they are made of metal not packing peanuts.The material missing off of the nose cowl probably would not have had much mass to make a so called thud. The thud I would guess was the actual failure of the duct and or the clamp which is under high heat and pressure, which in turn caused the visual damage. Had this been on the No.2 engine this would not have even been visible from the cabin.


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