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OAG Changes 3/27/09: AA/CO/DL/NW/UA  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7046 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11329 times:

I apologize of any of these were mentioned in other threads, but they all hit OAG this week. I left out the AirTran stuff since I know there were covered in another thread.

AA
Effective end of June 2009
LGA-DSM CXLD, formerly one E135 trip
LGA-PIT CXLD, formerly two E135 trips
LGA-BOS +1, from 6 to 7 RTs
LGA-CLE +1, from 2 to 3 RTs
LGA-CMH -1, from 6 to 5 RTs
LGA-DTW +1, from 3 to 4 RTs
LGA-YUL +1, from 3 to 4 RTs
STL-DAY CXLD formerly two E140 trips
STL-BDL CXLD, formerly two E145 trips

CO
Effective August
KIX-GUM NEW 1 RT

DL
Effective June
ATL-LNK NEW 1 RT, CRJ
AVL-LGA NEW 1 RT, CRJ

NW
DTW-ILM NEW 1 RT, CRJ, Effective June
MEM-DAY CXLD, formerly 1 CRJ trip (was announced for May, never flies)
MSP-BTV CXLD, formerly 1 CRJ trip, (announced for Jun-Aug, never flies)
MSP-FWA CXLD, formerly 1 CRJ trip, ends after May
MSP-GSO CXLD, formerly 1 CRJ trip, ends after May
MSP-IDA CXLD, formerly 1 CRJ trip, now only operates Jun-Aug

UA
DEN-RDM NEW 1, CRJ, operates Jun-Aug

[Edited 2009-03-27 06:17:05]

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11271 times:

Not sure if this was mentioned in one of the other OAG threads:

LGA-FLL:

Was flown by DL

Effective 01.April will be flown by NW (2x319, 2x320)



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7046 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11233 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 1):
Not sure if this was mentioned in one of the other OAG threads:

LGA-FLL:

Was flown by DL

Effective 01.April will be flown by NW (2x319, 2x320)

There are a bunch of LGA/BDL routes like that it. It was in one of my OAG threads from a month or two ago.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11223 times:

Well of course they were... LOL.

Hard to keep up with all of them.

Thanks for the update(s)!



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7046 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11096 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 3):
Well of course they were... LOL.

Hard to keep up with all of them.

Thanks for the update(s)!

No problem. It's also happening on a bunch of the ATL routes from the NW hubs.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11067 times:

I was going to post those too, but figured they'd been covered...

You'd know better than I, but I think ATL-FCO & LGW go to NWA A330's effective on the 3rd. Also one MSP-ATL will be a 330 as well.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10925 times:

No surprise about DSM-LGA. That route had a terrible load factor. It is somewhat weird when DL added a second DSM-LGA flight just a few weeks ago...

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7046 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10915 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 5):
Also one MSP-ATL will be a 330 as well.

I don't really follow the aircraft types, but I've read that apparently they need to get that plane into MSP for maintenance so they have been rotating the flight between JFK and ATL. It may also be a crew base related deal as well.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10499 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 6):
No surprise about DSM-LGA. That route had a terrible load factor.

STL-BDL was also quite empty when I flew it. FWIW, STL-BDL had run with 140s, not 145s for some time, and the 12 extra seats couldn't have helped. RP is apparently reducing it's AA Connection fleet from 15 to 13 frames, and if MQ wasn't going to cover more STL flying, something at STL had to go.

The STL-DAY cut really sucks for DAY. In a year, they've lost 2/3 of their AA destinations and, IIRC, a similar fraction of its flights (though DAY-DFW is all mainline, so the loss of seats isn't that high).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10476 times:

Too bad MSP-BTV is gone. From the statistics posted here a while back, it was a pretty solid performer (not great, but profitable)

-A



What now?
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7046 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10464 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
The STL-DAY cut really sucks for DAY. In a year, they've lost 2/3 of their AA destinations and, IIRC, a similar fraction of its flights (though DAY-DFW is all mainline, so the loss of seats isn't that high).

Don't forget DAY lost MEM today as well.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):

STL-BDL was also quite empty when I flew it.

I think AA must be getting close to shutting the hub in STL.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10421 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DL
Effective June
ATL-LNK NEW 1 RT, CRJ
AVL-LGA NEW 1 RT, CRJ

Doesn't AVL already have 2x to EWR? Seems like a lot of seats to NYC for AVL.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10391 times:



Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 11):
Doesn't AVL already have 2x to EWR? Seems like a lot of seats to NYC for AVL.

Perhaps DL feels that its a skyteam market on both ends and wants to offer the service with CO's skyteam departure this fall.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10367 times:



Quote:
LGA-CLE +1, from 2 to 3 RTs

Great to see more CLE service after CO's big cuts there.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10324 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
I think AA must be getting close to shutting the hub in STL.

I doubt they would have kept the 13 RP aircraft that they did if they wanted to shut STL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2273 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10245 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
The STL-DAY cut really sucks for DAY. In a year, they've lost 2/3 of their AA destinations and, IIRC, a similar fraction of its flights

I wonder if they will bRing back DAY-ORD?

Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
I think AA must be getting close to shutting the hub in STL.

I don't think so, AAEagle has been taking over alot of the flying, if they really wanted to drop the hub I think they would have by now. As of now its still a fairly good sized mini-hub/focus city...


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3255 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10229 times:



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 9):
Too bad MSP-BTV is gone. From the statistics posted here a while back, it was a pretty solid performer (not great, but profitable)

Think about that the next time those are posted. I've been trying for ages to make the point that those numbers not accurate, don't account for revenue accounting variances at each airline, are not reflective of TRUE segment costs and are just plain off the mark. Just because someone publishes them does not make them true.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10092 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-PIT CXLD, formerly two E135 trips

This could never work with 2 rts

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
AVL-LGA NEW 1 RT, CRJ

And the purpose of this is??????

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-RDM NEW 1, CRJ, operates Jun-Aug

This is a good add. Hopefully UA will add some more cities out west from DEN


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16824 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10064 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
CO
Effective August
KIX-GUM NEW 1 RT

Glad to see CO back in Osaka, would love to see some more Guam flying.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2433 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10021 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
This is a good add. Hopefully UA will add some more cities out west from DEN

Such as? Seems they do a pretty good job of connecting Western cities with Denver.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9881 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 19):
Such as? Seems they do a pretty good job of connecting Western cities with Denver.

Do they serve DEN-BFL or DEN-SMX? If not those would be good I think. Also DEN-YKM


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9829 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 20):
Do they serve DEN-BFL

Daily on Skywest.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 20):
DEN-SMX

Not yet, its currently a connection in LAX.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9149 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
CO
Effective August
KIX-GUM NEW 1 RT

Could this be to replace the CXLD NW flt?


User currently offlineUncGSO From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8590 times:

So DL/NW pulls GSO-LGA and GSO-MSP only to add AVL-LGA and ILM-DTW??
I dont get it.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8226 times:



Quoting UncGSO (Reply 23):
So DL/NW pulls GSO-LGA and GSO-MSP only to add AVL-LGA and ILM-DTW??
I dont get it.

Whats there to get?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):
erhaps DL feels that its a skyteam market on both ends and wants to offer the service with CO's skyteam departure this fall.

Do you think CO will be able to keep 2x to EWR with DL going straight into LGA ?


25 CompensateMe : NW uploaded significant changes to its summer schedules overnight. I hesitated to post a complete listing as it seems almost meaningless, but I decide
26 Enilria : That's probably why DL is flying it...to run CO away. We don't know if they really had the ability to dump all those planes without penalty. AA hasn'
27 CompensateMe : DTW-ILM still hasn't been loaded into DL/NW's schedules. The elimination of the single daily MSP-GSO isn't a big shock given DTW's being trimmed to t
28 MtnWest1979 : I was curious as to if they were going to continue running the CR9s thru the summer. Originally they were slated to only go thru mid-April but I noti
29 DeltAirlines : A few factors on MSP-GSO (which I am sad to lose, given that I live in MSP and go to GSO about 3 times a year; I'll be doing the nonstop in 3 weeks -
30 Hjulicher : CVG used to serve ILM if memory serves me right. Interesting that I'm here in ILM right now, but live in DTW. When I saw this new flight added, I per
31 EXAAUADL : DL wont be able to run CO out of AVL-EWR. You cant stop a hub carrier from serving spokes from its own hub by offering p2p service. And for what stra
32 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : This does not appear to be correct. They changed which flight receives the 332....but the flight that was the 332 went back to the 333. You may have
33 CompensateMe : Looking at the information I pulled, what I wrote was correct but it's since been corrected... I probably pulled the data simultaneously while the ch
34 Floridaflyboy : This is also one of the primary bridge points for Mesaba CR9s to SLC. That might have been a contributing factor as well. We frequently do MSP-BOI, o
35 AvConsultant : DAY & FWA appear to have been beaten up in the changes. Interesting how these smaller Midwest cities are being impacted in addition to their local ec
36 MSYtristar : With CVG-MSY going to 1X daily in June, I wonder if we'll see a 2nd permanent DTW-MSY added in its place? I sure hope so...the days of triple daily DC
37 Cubsrule : Fair point, but OTOH they did dump AX and instead of shrinking the operation, they backfilled all of the ex-AX flying with MQ and, to a lesser extent
38 Enilria : As noted it is usually Monday, but it is also possible they pulled it back either to coincide with an announcement or ILM's check bounced! appreciate
39 FlyPNS1 : But I'm not so sure it does. Even when times were a bit better (2006-2007), AA showed little interest in growing STL. All AA has done since inheritin
40 FlyPNS1 : Maybe, but there are lots of Southeastern markets where DL is the largest and CO still flies successfully to EWR/IAH. Admittedly, AVL would be one of
41 CompensateMe : Changes in NW's (and it appears DL as well) schedules are almost always uploaded Saturday morning, with very, very, very few exceptions. xxx One more
42 FWAERJ : So, FWA-MSP is dropped, but FWA-CVG stays? I would have thought that CVG would have been dropped first given the 9E MX ops at FWA and the ever-shrinki
43 Cubsrule : I suspect it would be something like 60-70 daily flights. STL can probably support just about all of the remaining mainline flying (save maybe SAN an
44 SurfandSnow : So many changes already happening at DL/NW...will be extremely interesting to see what happens once those operating certificates merge and each airlin
45 EXAAUADL : I agree, though Im still surprised that DSM is still there 3x daily. There must be a decent sized lcoal market. There is no decent road from DSM to S
46 Post contains images Enilria : Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 39): AA's in a real tough spot up the road at ORD. They are struggling to keep ORD going and so far not having a lot of luck. M
47 EXAAUADL : Yes, I agree. I am surprised to see a market like ORD-BDL down to three daily ER4s. Though I would not expect to see much more shrinkage in STL from
48 Enilria : I think it is more than a dart board they are using. I will grant you that they needed to use the slot and probably were hunting for a place to put i
49 EXAAUADL : maybe true, but your original argument was that AVL-LGA would force CO out of AVL-EWR. If so it would be a first. You cant usually stop an airline fr
50 Enilria : I think that coupled with the SkyTeam exit will lead to that. AVL is too small a market in a region where CO is traditionally weak to succeed without
51 Cubsrule : To be honest, AA is no longer competitive to BDL from most points not well-served via DFW. I've been traveling STL-BDL a lot lately, and despite the
52 Enilria : I'm surprised this wasn't more interesting to people. I should have given it a thread of it's own.
53 Iowaman : There is a decent sized market on STL-DSM, however STL-CID is fairly small and the flights typically go out with
54 CIDFlyer : I can remember up to 8 MD80s a day circa 1999-2000...wow times change. CID-STL has gotten much easier to travel via car now that its all four lanes s
55 Iowaman : Checking STL-CID for tomorrow, flights are currently showing 8/50 and 11/44 out of STL and the return showing 9/50 and 11/44. I wouldn't be surprise
56 CIDFlyer : Gosh I would hate for that to happen! Still wish they would re-time those flights better, its as if they don't even give them a chance to work at tho
57 EXAAUADL : is STL banked at all? ow is it set up?
58 CIDFlyer : I think its pretty much a free flowing/rolling hub, with no discernable banks when you look at the schedule. Granted there are a couple spots likke a
59 Cubsrule : Let's put it this way: if it were a bigger operation, we'd call it a rolling hub. There are no banks.
60 Skyrat : FWA-CVG does quite well! Even though CVG is being scaled back, I couldn't see them dropping all 3 flights to CVG in favor of MSP.
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