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Qantas To Abu Dhabi In 2010  
User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11012 times:

James Hogan has made a statement that Qantas intends to operate into Abu Dhabi by 2010, can anyone confirm if this is correct?

The code-share deal "gives us the ability to work closer" with Qantas, Mr Hogan said. "They have made it clear that they intend to operate into Abu Dhabi in 2010, so we'll look for ways in which we can feed each other."

http://business.smh.com.au/business/...nks-with-qantas-20090329-9fjc.html

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10815 times:

I saw him interviewed on Inside Business yesterday where he made the statement.....one can only assume this is true. This is a sure sign Dubai is in real strife!


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5160 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10786 times:



Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 1):
.....one can only assume this is true

Not necessarily. They could of used this as part of the bargaining chip. IE we are going to start flying to AUH next year so it's in your interests to work with us now etc.

Whats the bet next year that AUH doesn't start - because the current code share arrnagement is working just fine!


User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10678 times:

Yeah. I'll believe it when Qantas actually announces new flights to AUH, other than the code-share flights to AUH on EY.

Seriously, how many more flights can Australia handle to the middle east with EK's and EY's recent expansion and QR coming online soon!? Could be a bit of overkill really soon!


User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 687 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10605 times:



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 3):
Seriously, how many more flights can Australia handle to the middle east with EK's and EY's recent expansion and QR coming online soon!? Could be a bit of overkill really soon!

Unless QF can secure onward rights and make this a stopover enroute to a Europen destination, might be a good option for those of us who like to fly on QF metal and not have to use the typical asian hubs
mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2912 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10377 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 2):
Whats the bet next year that AUH doesn't start - because the current code share arrnagement is working just fine!

If it does happen it'll be via Singapore. So first we have Mumbai switched to Singapore and then we'll have Abu Dhabi.

So that makes SIN having QF Group service to;

SYD, MEL, BNE, ADL, PER, CNS, DRW;
Taipei, HKG, MNL, BOM, DEL, BKK, Phuket, Yangon, Siem Reap, Phnom Penh, Jakart, Surabay, Denpasar
LHR, FRA, CDG

Add AUH to the mix and it's really starting to look like a hub to me. Now all we need is JQ service to Athens and Rome to start...........................


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10209 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 2):
Whats the bet next year that AUH doesn't start - because the current code share arrnagement is working just fine!

odds on that it won't happen, QF isn't exactly known for its aggressive approach into new markets.

if it does happen then what's the bet it ends up like Beijing? pop in for a while then leave the place with only 2 flights per week.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10095 times:

I can't believe that QF is seriously going to take on a port like AUH when the amount of end-to-end traffic is low, and when they have a formidable competitor like EY in a code share relationship and are already serving the route. What would they be thinking they could gain? The only point to the Gulf hubs is as a collection and distribution point, and you can't match EY for that out of AUH.


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9764 times:



Quoting Mal787 (Reply 4):
Unless QF can secure onward rights and make this a stopover enroute to a Europen destination, might be a good option for those of us who like to fly on QF metal and not have to use the typical asian hubs

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/2005/8.html

scroll right down to the Route Annex - any points beyond via the UAE (for Aus AirlineS) = QF already has access to fly to Europe via DXB or AUH.


User currently offlineB787 From Australia, joined May 2005, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9749 times:

What about a JQ 787 Hub to Europe?

User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9469 times:



Quoting B787 (Reply 9):
What about a JQ 787 Hub to Europe

You took the words out of my mouth sir, I know its out of "left field", but stranger things have happened . I know we have it on very good authority that JQ will hub out of Singapore, but I have a knawing suspicion (call it a gut feeling if you like) it will be a Middle Eastern Port such as AUH for services to Europe. It is that much closer, and I assume the 787 shall be able to make it from MEL and SYD to AUH as a non-stop.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9430 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 5):
If it does happen it'll be via Singapore.

I don't think so!

Quoting Mal787 (Reply 4):
Unless QF can secure onward rights and make this a stopover enroute to a Europen destination, might be a good option for those of us who like to fly on QF metal and not have to use the typical asian hubs

The UAE operate a FULL open skies policy. Anybody can fly to/from anyehere.

What, in my opinion, you are all missing is this quote from Hogans ABC interview:

"What we're seeing is we're taking share from the Asian hubs and the European hubs over Abu Dhabi "
from: http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/content/2009/s2529075.htm

And who else is very interested in taking share from Asian hubs? Qantas! Why do QF perfer Abu Dhabi over SIN (or BKK or SGN or ???) Because the UAE have a totally open skies policy, QF can operate 7th freedom flights out of the UAE! (That is flights NOT originating in Australia) Can't do that from SIN!

My prediction (subject to current economic conditions, of course. QF will star AUH service in late 2010, enroute to Europe. Replacing HKG-LHR maybe, or a fifth daily flight. As the B787 finally start to roll we will see every second one based in AUH, in QF colours, but operated by staff employed by JQ, to give cabin service to QF standards.

Eventually I see QF service from SYD/MEL-AUH-LHR A380, BNE & PER- AUH B787. The AUH based B787s will eventually serve CDG, FCO, ATH, VIE, ZHR, MAN and just maybe DUB, CPH SVO & MAD. The other European cities will be served by EY code shares from AUH. There will be other EY code shares on QF. Everybody benefits, QF from the code shares, QF only serves cities big enough to handle both EY & QF daily service, anything smaller EY handles, something similar on this end for EY code shares say to NZ. So the QF/EY partnership can out connect and thereby take market share off the Asian carriers. That ought to take care of 15 B787s, at least.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 6):
QF isn't exactly known for its aggressive approach into new markets.

This is VERY true, but I think QF have realised that they have to reinvent themselves. For an airline to do this requires aircraft and for QF that means new aircraft on an unprecedented scale. Can you say 105 B787s? Also don't forget Joyce has been on the QF Group BOD since joining JQ, before the B787 orders were placed.

Finally I think this "AUH" stratagem is only one of a number that you will see. A SIN & another Asian city are two obvious ones, maybe DFW in North Am and something else in South Am & god knows what in Africa.

Gemuser (the optimist!)



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9404 times:

The UAE is far more likely to command premium services than low-cost tourist services. Dubai may have hit the skids - temporarily - at the moment, but let's not forget why the Emirs of the UAE are going gangbusters building all sorts of infrastructure: to support free trade zones so that when their oil money starts to dissipate, the lost revenue can be replaced by tax money from the enormous service sectors they want to create (low taxes but large volumes = cash money all the same!).

A low-cost hub makes sense in either SIN or BKK - not DXB or AUH.

$0.02


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5160 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9361 times:



Quoting TN486 (Reply 10):
I know we have it on very good authority that JQ will hub out of Singapore,

I've not heard about this? Please tell us where it has been announced that it will go to SIN?

Quoting TN486 (Reply 10):
(call it a gut feeling if you like) it will be a Middle Eastern Port such as AUH for services to Europe.

Doubt it will be a JQ hub. EH/EK will charge the same in economy if confronted with Jetstar, yet offer more of a service.


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9135 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 13):
I've not heard about this? Please tell us where it has been announced that it will go to SIN?



Quoting TN486 (Reply 10):
I know we have it on very good authority that JQ will hub out of Singapore, but I have a knawing suspicion (call it a gut feeling if

Please forgive me if you feel I have given the impression it has been announced (it hasnt), my "good authority" was taken from post number 170 Aust Aviation Thread 24 which is related to post numbers 166 and 167. I have been unable to work out how to tranfer those posts to this thread however.  Smile



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8818 times:



Quoting TN486 (Reply 10):
I know we have it on very good authority that JQ will hub out of Singapore

I find some of the assertions made in those quoted posts interesting to say the least. It would seem that poster and myself are on a different wavelength.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8770 times:



Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 15):
I find some of the assertions made in those quoted posts interesting to say the least. It would seem that poster and myself are on a different wavelength.

Monteycarlos, thank you for your informed clarification. (I have just read your profile)  Smile



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8615 times:



Quoting TN486 (Reply 16):
Monteycarlos, thank you for your informed clarification. (I have just read your profile)

I think perhaps the most diplomatic line I can offer you is that all oppotunities are still under current investigation, including possible route expansion and hub strategy.

In lay terms, nothing has been decided yet. The 787 isn't really on the radar yet until Boeing can offer a firm delivery date. The current focus is on short-haul international, New Zealand domestic / AKL trans-Tasman and consolidating existing long-haul services.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8521 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 11):
As the B787 finally start to roll we will see every second one based in AUH, in QF colours, but operated by staff employed by JQ, to give cabin service to QF standards.

I find it interesting though that people often suggest that JQ will eventually operate branded QF flights, I'm not sure they really need them too, the currently have a subsiduary for both long and short haul FAs that then get contracted back to them (QCCA, Qantas cabin crew Australia for long haul, QCCD Qantas cabin crew domestic for short haul plus Qantas crew UK and Jetconnect crews), both offer far lower costs than their mainline competitors and I can't imagine them being much more expensive than JQ crew except due to the patterns they operate alongside the mainline QF crew. I can't see why they simply won't do the same for other employee groups down the track.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2912 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6601 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 11):
I don't think so!

Simple question - do QF have an aircraft which is capable in 2010 of operating to AUH directly from the East Coast of Australia? Answer - No. Therefore the service will be via Singapore. Simple.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 11):
Eventually I see QF service from SYD/MEL-AUH-LHR A380, BNE & PER- AUH B787. The AUH based B787s will eventually serve CDG, FCO, ATH, VIE, ZHR, MAN and just maybe DUB, CPH SVO & MAD. The other European cities will be served by EY code shares from AUH. There will be other EY code shares on QF. Everybody benefits, QF from the code shares, QF only serves cities big enough to handle both EY & QF daily service, anything smaller EY handles, something similar on this end for EY code shares say to NZ. So the QF/EY partnership can out connect and thereby take market share off the Asian carriers. That ought to take care of 15 B787s, at least.

I remember reading something similar in Australian Aviation magazine back in the late 90's. Back then it would have been a really good idea for QF to invest in a fleet of A340's and hub out of SIN to Continental European destinations.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6402 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 19):
Simple question - do QF have an aircraft which is capable in 2010 of operating to AUH directly from the East Coast of Australia? Answer - No. Therefore the service will be via Singapore. Simple.

Wrong answer! They have 3 in 2009. The B744, B744ER & A380. Can't see any of those types going away before 2010.

SYD-AUH is THREE nm further than SYD-LAX and 373 nm LESS than MEL-LAX.
SYD-AUH = 6510 nm
SYD-LAX = 6507 nm
MEL-LAX = 6883 nm
All great circle distances, of course. The B744 is marginal on MEL-LAX, of course, but the B744ER & A380 were purchased just for it!

QF CAN NOT hub out of SIN (in their own right), UNLESS ALL flight originate or terminate in Australia. They have fifth freedom rights from SIN, NOT seventh freedom AFAIK. Which is fine for what they do, but they cant base aircraft there that don't fly to/from Oz. In the UAE they can. (In theory anyway, the practicalities may be different, which is why a tie up with EY makes soooooooooo much seance.)

Also SIN is too close to Oz to be an effective hub for Europe, because you have the larger aircraft on the shorter leg. It is more effective to have the bigger aircraft with the better CASK (we presume) on the longer leg. This makes AUH much more effective.

Who knows if it will happen? But a number of QF people including Joyce, Dixon and Borgetti have said that many changes will be necessary for QF to survive as a major player. This appears to me to be a possible major change.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineB787 From Australia, joined May 2005, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6369 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 20):
QF CAN NOT hub out of SIN (in their own right), UNLESS ALL flight originate or terminate in Australia. They have fifth freedom rights from SIN, NOT seventh freedom AFAIK. Which is fine for what they do, but they cant base aircraft there that don't fly to/from Oz. In the UAE they can. (In theory anyway, the practicalities may be different, which is why a tie up with EY makes soooooooooo much seance.)

Well that's what I'm thinking... Set up JQ Middle East with a few 787s into Manchester, Rome, Athens, Barcelona and Paris. Maybe even secondary airports serving those cities (if possible). Fly QF A380's into AUH along with JQ 787s and EY aircraft from Oz and Asia. Then passengers can interline with either EY or JQ to their destination. This way you offer your passengers a nice broad choice of product and cities/airports. It takes on Emirates and the Asian carriers and moves the game that bit further...  box 

The double brand strategy seems to work fine for QF and JQ so why not JQ and EY?


User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 747 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6355 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 20):
SYD-AUH is THREE nm further than SYD-LAX and 373 nm LESS than MEL-LAX.
SYD-AUH = 6510 nm
SYD-LAX = 6507 nm
MEL-LAX = 6883 nm

 bigthumbsup  you beat me to it Gem,, It is also interesting that PER-AUH-LHR is actually shorter than PER-SIN-LHR (great circle distances, of course)


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5160 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6355 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 20):
The B744, B744ER & A380. Can't see any of those types going away before 2010.

They'll be around, but it is too much capcity for AUH.

I think they will continue to build SIN as their hub. AUH will work well as a codeshare destination with EY as EY can offer tonnes of connections... I just doon't see why QF would bother sending their own metal there.

Gulf (with James Hogan) had a successful Mid east codeshare network with QF.... EY (under Hogan) will be similar - just with more destinations.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6338 times:



Quoting B787 (Reply 21):
The double brand strategy seems to work fine for QF and JQ so why not JQ and EY?

Agreed, except that I think it will be the Qantas brand that reenters Europe and JQ will be concentrated around the Pacific. No real reason that I can give except that Hogan said QF, he didn't say JQ.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
25 Sydscott : And the liklihood of deploying a Boeing 744, 744ER or an A380 on a developmental service to AUH is? Especially since the route is already served dire
26 Behramjee : This is the most interesting piece of news in a long time hearing another airline's CEO announcing another airline's new destination before that airli
27 TN486 : lol, yeah, but its fun though Sydscott, dont be a party pooper.
28 ANstar : LoL... but he is code sharing with QF, not JQ. Hence why QF prbably dropped the fact we are planning on flying to AUH... it helps with negotiations..
29 Alangirvan : The Qantas Group could use a Singapore based Jetstar Asia plane, which would not need to terminate in Australia. Some of the 787s may be used by Jets
30 Sydscott : Exactly! Anyone who thinks QF is launching non-stop service is kidding themselves. This will be 1 stop via Singapore to begin with. Depends on what h
31 YVR1968 : I would suggest waiting to hear an official announcement from QF itself before speculating too much. It is odd that another airline's CEO would say s
32 Gemuser : You'd be lucky if it was 2014! QFs first B789 is aircraft number 31 out of 45 (first firm order) on current plans. If AUH is a stop on the way to Eur
33 Sydscott : I disagree with that. Just like South America, QF needs a base of knowledge for sure about how much Australian O&D it can carry between Australia and
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