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AC CEO Resigns  
User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9539 times:

Did a search and didn't find it yet. AC CEO resigned this evening. Significance?
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/0...brewer-air-canada-resigns-ceo.html


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5132 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9524 times:

Calin Rovinescu was the man in charge of finances during the last trip though CCAA, I don't think it's a coincidence. There are several issues in the target sites right now. The two main ones are pension plans, and the Jazz Capacity Purchase Agreement.

Right now, Jazz has the highest seat-mile costs of any North American airline, I would guess AC wants out!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9512 times:



Quoting AvroArrow (Thread starter):
Significance?

Good question, to which no clues were provided in the story linked. What makes me equally curious is how many million$ does he pocket as his reward for the decline of Air Canada that occurred during his watch?


User currently offlineMercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9456 times:

perhaps he returns to a US based airline, that needs a proven leader.

User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9399 times:



Quoting Mercure1 (Reply 3):
perhaps he returns to a US based airline, that needs a proven leader.

That would also be my guess,thinking that he received an offer to leave and not be the one left holding the bag. My feeling is that there are some difficult days,weeks and months ahead for those at AC.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 2):
What makes me equally curious is how many million$ does he pocket as his reward for the decline of Air Canada that occurred during his watch?

Do you still get a severance package if you quit?

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 1):
Calin Rovinescu was the man in charge of finances during the last trip though CCAA, I don't think it's a coincidence. There are several issues in the target sites right now. The two main ones are pension plans, and the Jazz Capacity Purchase Agreement.

Right now, Jazz has the highest seat-mile costs of any North American airline, I would guess AC wants out!

The return of Calin leads me to think it's another trip down memory lane. The pension issue is certainly an albatross around AC neck. You really need to go into much more detail about Jazz than just sound-bite one-liners.


User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1992 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9399 times:

Wow, he jumps out just when things are going to go sour, I guess he did not want to be around for the contracts that come due this summer!


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4634 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9139 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 2):
What makes me equally curious is how many million$ does he pocket as his reward for the decline of Air Canada that occurred during his watch?

What decline?



Word
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5132 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8837 times:



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
What decline?

Exactly. AC had some very good years under the command of Montie Brewer. With an operating loss of around $35M, even last year was not all that bad.

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 4):
The pension issue is certainly an albatross around AC neck.

The albatross is probably Canada's archaic pension laws. One of the things mentioned in the last month is that the roughly $400M deficit currently in the non-pilot pension plan, would actually be a $1.2B surplus under US laws! (The pilot pension plan, is separate from the rest of the company, and is held and controlled by the pilot union.)



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8647 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 7):
AC had some very good years under the command of Montie Brewer. With an operating loss of around $35M, even last year was not all that bad.

The million dollar question is what lays in store for AC. There seems to be a bit of a liquidity issue with AC scrambling to line up cash and lines of credit over the past few months. They had a 400 million dollar revolving line of credit withdrawn on them late last year. What is most concerning is that they are burning the furniture(sale and leasebacks),never mind the fact that there are no more holdings left to sell,ie,Jazz and Aeroplan.

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 7):
The pilot pension plan, is separate from the rest of the company, and is held and controlled by the pilot union.)

That has got to be a relief.


User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8584 times:

is he the one who went on a massive spending spree buying Boeing planes when the business case actually wasn't there for AC?

User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4906 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8393 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 9):
is he the one who went on a massive spending spree buying Boeing planes when the business case actually wasn't there for AC?

AC NEVER went on a "MASSIVE SPENDING SPREE." There was a controlled phasing out of older aircraft for new ones based on a sound analysis of the network. And no this "spree" was not the primary reason for this resignation. Nor is it the primary cause of what looks to be a reentry into bankruptcy protection.



YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8368 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 10):
There was a controlled phasing out of older aircraft for new ones based on a sound analysis of the network.

So that's why AC001 is now an one stop flight?  confused 


User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8346 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 11):
So that's why AC001 is now an one stop flight?

You mean "was" a one stop flight, for the Winter season only? It's now back to a non-stop flight. Perhaps you've missed that traffic is plunging between Canada and certain overseas markets. That was nothing more than matching capacity with demand and trying maintain yields. Note also, that YVR-NRT was a B767, and is now a B77W.


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8309 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 9):
is he the one who went on a massive spending spree buying Boeing planes when the business case actually wasn't there for AC?

a spending spree by getting rid of the inefficient and costly long haul airbus fleet? how dare he!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days ago) and read 7440 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 7):
The albatross is probably Canada's archaic pension laws. One of the things mentioned in the last month is that the roughly $400M deficit currently in the non-pilot pension plan, would actually be a $1.2B surplus under US laws!

Canada's pension laws aren't "archaic" for those who rely on their pension payments. Many airline employees in the U.S. have lost a good part of their pensions when their former employers went bankrupt. To my knowledge, that has never happened to a pension plan in Canada due to the much stricter funding requirements.

Obviously, Canadian companies would love to be subject to U.S. pension legislation, but from a political perspective, that would significantly weaken Canada's traditionally stronger social safety net.


User currently offlineCRJ 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7323 times:

Longhauler JAZZ will be doing all the domestic flying before you know it, so give your head a shake. This time around, SCOPE will be gone.

User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6432 times:



Quoting CRJ 900 (Reply 15):
Longhauler JAZZ will be doing all the domestic flying before you know it,

That's probably the one and only plausible scenario that could secure Air Canada's survival.

My two cents, get out of the domestic market all together, give up that antiquated Toronto obsessive hub for connections anywhere in the world, start increasing capacity and frequencies on intercontinental point to point from major Canadian cities, transfer all single isle aircraft to Jazz and have them signed onto a brand new agreement on feeder routes.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5132 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6377 times:



Quoting CRJ 900 (Reply 15):
Longhauler JAZZ will be doing all the domestic flying before you know it,

Why, to double costs? Jazz' seat-mile cost is almost double that of AC.

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 17):
That's probably the one and only plausible scenario that could secure Air Canada's survival.

There are some that think CCAA is the only way to get rid of Jazz, now that the "value" of Jazz has been lifted and removed. Promise the investors a Capacity Purchase Agreement contract for 5 years at double the going rate ... then in CCAA back out of the contract and go with Georgian or American regional carriers at half the rate!

Just a thought of course, nothing official .. but remember, Jazz is worthless without AC, and AC owns most of Jazz' aircraft. I find it interesting that it is now policy at airports NOT to refer to Jazz, just call the flight AC, almost like Jazz may not be around in the future.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6254 times:
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Quoting 413X3 (Reply 13):
a spending spree by getting rid of the inefficient and costly long haul airbus fleet? how dare he!

Lufthansa makes an "inefficient and costly long haul Airbus fleet" work profitably and well.  confused 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

To everyone who is suggesting AC modernizing their fleet is the reason they are in trouble;

Kindly provide some facts and figures to backup your assertions. Air Canada's problems go *far* beyond what aircraft they operate.

AC has a unique set of regulations/government pressure on them to maintain service to places they shouldn't need to (for a start). They may not be a crown corp any longer but in some ways are still treated like they are.

AC also has a HUGE pension issue looming. Last time I looked their pension issue was 100 times their operating loss of last year.

AC also has looming labour problems

AC also has a much younger, more nimble and unencumbered competitor who is now making inroads into their international business

AC (like all airlines) is dealing with the global economic downturn. In this environment those crappy routes they are 'forced' to serve perform EVEN worse.

Then *maybe* we can start talking about ACs fleet. But if we're going to talk about AC's fleet, we have to start with the whole Jazz mess *long* before we talk about the 777s. AFAIK AC's 777s have actually been one of the best things that have happened to them in a while.

I really don't know why some folks are soooo worked up (either way) because one airline chose to get rid of a few frames of A for a few frames of B. There are plenty of airlines that make lots of money with all Boeing and plenty that make money with all Airbus. Aircraft selection is about the 8th or 9th most important thing for an airline (within reason).

(edit)Sorry folks, I can't type tonight... bed time I think.. that Concorde spoof excitement drained me :P



[Edited 2009-03-31 20:16:28]

[Edited 2009-03-31 20:18:06]


I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6029 times:
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Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 19):
Then *maybe* we can start talking about ACs fleet.

It may be a long way down the list, but the puzzle - for me - is that so soon after coming out of bankruptcy they ordered nearly $6 billion of new aircraft from anyone. Especially given all the other problems you have stated.

For me, the manufacturer is irrelevant. If they had ordered $6 billion of new aircraft from Airbus at that time, I would have raised an eyebrow or two.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5970 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):

It may be a long way down the list, but the puzzle - for me - is that so soon after coming out of bankruptcy they ordered nearly $6 billion of new aircraft from anyone. Especially given all the other problems you have stated.

AC required (and requires) increased uplift for their Asian sector. That was (as I understand it) the prime motivation behind the 777 portion. The 787 purchase is for replace of their 767s which aren't getting any younger as well as minor expansion. (Bear in mind I'm not privy to all the details obviously).

At some point AC had to do something about fleet renewal for the 767s, and when the order was *initially* placed it was high-times and smooth sailing for the sector. No one could foresee the timing on the economic downturn.

AC may also have been under some political pressure to divest some Airbus aircraft around that time due to a certain scandal in the country.

*All* that said, the order makes no difference, as AC is powerless save a trip to bankruptcy again to do *anything* about the other items. They could have ordered any Airbus aircraft (other than the 380  Wink ) and I would be saying the same thing. They are still stuck with crappy 'forced' routes, labour issues, etc.

It's easy now to say 'gee wouldn't it have been great to keep that money in the bank', but at *some* point you have to replace your aircraft. AC went ahead moved up their 340 replacement and took care of the 767 replacement at the same time. Until AC can free itself from some long-term baggage there will never be a good time to replace aircraft, and their 767s won't fly forever.

It's a bit of a shame because I really do think AC improved significantly from a PAX perspective since their last trip to bankruptcy. Now I don't like the whole BOB thing, but their service (people wise) seems miles ahead, and their fleet renewal is nice.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5953 times:
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Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 21):
It's easy now to say 'gee wouldn't it have been great to keep that money in the bank', but at *some* point you have to replace your aircraft.

It's that timing that I question. The times were not all that high and smooth sailing - the rocket rise of fuel had already begun.

It may have been driven by need for fleet expansion/replacement but it wasn't that urgent and I suspected other pressures - perhaps both internal and external - were at work.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 21):
It's a bit of a shame because I really do think AC improved significantly from a PAX perspective since their last trip to bankruptcy.

Call me old fashioned - I may be - but I found nothing wrong with their service prior to the bk. I flew them a couple of times trans-Atlantic, and I found it to be an extremely pleasant experience.

It seemed to me to reflect the best of the country, where my experiences have always been extraordinarily pleasant.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5944 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
It's that timing that I question. The times were not all that high and smooth sailing - the rocket rise of fuel had already begun.

It may have been driven by need for fleet expansion/replacement but it wasn't that urgent and I suspected other pressures - perhaps both internal and external - were at work.

But look at it this way. By plunking money on those frames they turned less profit, which makes unions beating you up for pay increases a smaller issue. Any $ they 'saved' by not placing an aircraft order would have been consumed elsewhere for no long term (financial that is) benefit to the company. I promise you the unions wouldn't have let them sit around with $6B in the bank!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
Call me old fashioned - I may be - but I found nothing wrong with their service prior to the bk. I flew them a couple of times trans-Atlantic, and I found it to be an extremely pleasant experience.

Well that's why you got the nice crews :P Try their YYZ->(anywhere in the US routes). The level of service used to be awful.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
It seemed to me to reflect the best of the country, where my experiences have always been extraordinarily pleasant.

As someone who carries dual citizenship (Can, Bbd), thank you  Smile



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5920 times:
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Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 23):
Any $ they 'saved' by not placing an aircraft order would have been consumed elsewhere for no long term (financial that is) benefit to the company. I promise you the unions wouldn't have let them sit around with $6B in the bank!

It wasn't so much saving money at the time that concerned me, it was the commitment of future money, the acquisition of debt. New debt, especially for companies recently out of bk, always worries me, because they've just been through all that trauma getting rid of debt.

I do take your point, though, and I also imagine that the external political pressures on Air Canada are quite intense.

I guess that was my concern about Mr. Brewer - the little I knew about from some remove. I always felt that Air Canada, in those circumstances, needed (needs?) a ruthless political in-fighter, and I wasn't sure that Mr. Brewer had those credentials.

Anyhoo, I wish 'em all the very best.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Multimark : More a function of aircraft type than labour agreements. Do you work for Air Canada by chance? Did it escape your notice that AC and Jazz concluded a
26 Rheinwaldner : Those Airbus long haulers were not so outclassed to make that step mandatory. Regarding the 777 it is a rare case of replacing aircrafts of the same
27 EbbUK : But it is a factor right? If it isn't primary then even with bankruptcy protection AC will be able to make the payments for new planes ordered? Me th
28 Bobnwa : I believe the AC Airbus remark was made tongue in cheek.
29 Columba : AUA got rid of their A340/A330s in order for a 767/777 fleet.
30 Flyyul : Again although the B777 fleet is more expensive to own, it is materially cheaper to operate from an operational and maintenance perspective, so at the
31 Pnwtraveler : The cargo the 777's are hauling have made them very worthwhile. Even with the downturn they are carrying impressive amounts. People keep forgetting th
32 YOWza : You've seen the books have you? If not that's an interesting amount of confidence to bring to a discussion... YOWza
33 Viscount724 : What are you referring to? I have seen no indication that AC plans to retire the A333 fleet. If that was the case they wouldn't currently be spending
34 Osiris30 : People are assuming the 330s will be the first ac the 787 replaces for AC. Everyone seems to be forgetting about all the 767s that need replacing.
35 MattRB : Scuttlebutt from YWG payroll says Montie got $5 mil on his way out the door.
36 EbbUK : Rhetorical question. Lost in translation, clearly.
37 9252fly : That should hopefully ease his pain and suffering,never mind any insult to his reputation.
38 Rheinwaldner : Good remark. That is correct regarding my question. However the difficulty to find examples shows that it is against a trend. There may be other exam
39 Post contains links Allstarflyer : Hopefully it had nothing to do with the prime minister of Canada. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/03/30/1870323.aspx
40 ZBBYLW : I think there is a big difference having a Democrat and a Conservative in power. I do not think Harper would get his hands that dirty thank god.
41 Connies4ever : Mr Rovinescu has a reputation of being tough when the going gets tough - and after a $1B loss last year, it is certainly tough times staring AC in the
42 MaverickM11 : Where are they forced to fly? Are they not compensated for flying there, such as the EAS program in the US?
43 9252fly : I'm confident that AC will survive,I just don't know what it will look like once Calin has finished executing his plan(unfinished). There will indeed
44 Pnwtraveler : The 787 will replace many 763's before they get to replacing the A333. So saying the 787 will replace it is true. Early on the A333 weren't going to g
45 Post contains links 9252fly : Let's hope the new CEO doesn't go as far as this analyst is suggesting... http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/090402/b040299A.html
46 Flyyul : I'd love to be an analyst on Bay Street, just get to spew whatever propaganda i'd like to the media, and get paid $100's of K's because nobody out the
47 VonRichtofen : " target=_blank>http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/090402....html Hahaha what is that guy smoking? I'm not going to pretend to know everything about route
48 Mariner : The analyst may not have perfect solutions, but he's the basic problem right: "Air Canada must make a decision as to what it wants to be: a profitabl
49 Viscount724 : No, there is no equivalent to the EAS program in Canada. That's why fares to remote communities in Northern Canada are usually very high. And no airl
50 Pnwtraveler : Analysts are divided over this. The one being most quoted is the most dire. That is the way to sell newspapers and get people reading. Good way to mak
51 Mariner : Any analyst who is too wrong too often is out of a job. mariner
52 Q120 : That's why I cant wait to see how he handles the union contract issues, ill be following this topic closely.
53 Plairbus : There was NO need to change the 333 and 343 at this moment they could easly wait a few more years. And all this money for the new planes is now why AC
54 Connies4ever : a) the 333s are going nowhere for the time being (being XM'd now), and b) the 343s simply cannot match the 777s for DOC and especially for the abilit
55 Pnwtraveler : Had everyone's crystal balls not been cloudy or out for repairs, the downturn would have been obvious on the horizon. To all a sudden apply the 20/20
56 Yyz717 : How about the 95% decline in share price since emergence from CCAA? How about the on-going losses since emergence? How about the decline in market sh
57 Connies4ever : 2007, I believe a $470M net profit.
58 Yyz717 : Still below the roughly defined 7% return that investment grade requires to cover investment risk. That $470M was about a 4% return, and was clearly
59 Viscount724 : How many North America-based airlines have ever generated long-term investment grade returns? Very few.
60 Mariner : Very true. That does not it desirable or good business practice. mariner
61 Yyz717 : Southwest always has. So has Westjet. Both are growing and profitable. Allegient has a strong business model generating profits. Of the legacy carrie
62 Connies4ever : Not sure about unsustainable. They have produced profits in more than one year in the past decade or so. But a 7% return, hmm.. I think it's been sai
63 Plairbus : The money for the pension is on a diffrent account. And if the 343 can not do some routes, buy 345 and 346. Than you do not have to change everything
64 Pictues : Ok The A340-500 COULD NOT fly YYZ-HKG with a full load of cargo/full passenger load, The B777-200LR CAN. The B777-300ER can even make YVR-SYD non sto
65 Rheinwaldner : Nobody said the 777 is not more efficient. But all this advantages disappear if you have to invest the full capital for new planes before the olders
66 Pictues : Ok But the Cargo AC Carries with the B77W might be good reason, Also I believe Singapore Airlines ha generally replaced their fleet when the aircraft
67 Pictues : Also about the Pension how is it Self Inflicted if a) its been their since they were a crown corp? b) Canadian Law state you can't cancel it even in C
68 Par13del : When has reality ever stepped in the way of a good story? If the pension fules are fixed, what will another trip into CCAA produce, is there anything
69 Czbbflier : Forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this- I cannot find anything recent that backs me up on this one either but aren't Air Canada's fuel
70 MattRB : We hedged one third of this years fuel @ $90/bbl or above.
71 Pnwtraveler : They had two 345's. And lets not go through the arguments of which aircraft carries more cargo for the 20th time. There are plenty of threads about t
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