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The Most Annoying Thing About Airlines Today  
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9810 times:

I am commenting as a consumer - definition, somebody who pays for goods or a service.

1. When I choose to purchase a flight with ABC airlines I do so making a choice about service, flight departure time, arrival time, flight duration, facilities, amenities, etc.
2. When I do so I effectively enter into a contract based on the schedule/service promoted and sold to me by the airline.

I am getting VERY tired of some factions suggesting that the consumer (passenger) is excessively demanding.

May I give you a hypothetical example. I book a flight with ABC airlines to travel between 2 cities 4000 kms apart that is a non-stop flight, that departs at 8AM and arrives at 2PM. I book this flight based on the 4.5 hour non-stop trip duration and the arrival time to suit my activities at the destination.

I arrive at the departure airport 2 hours prior to departure. There is an industrial dispute and there is a lack of check in staff and I wait an hour to check in.

The flight is late in departing by an hour due to the lack of staff at the airport. Half way in to the flight the passengers are advised that due to a mechanical issue the plane is diverting.
The flight ultimately takes 9 hours instead of 4.5. I arrive late at my arrival airport. My associates that were going to pick me up have gone to the event that I was traveling to and I incur a $200 taxi cost.

I am angry because the airline has failed to provide the service that they agreed to provide - ie a non stop flight of a specific duration and arrival time. I could easily have saved $200 and gone on ZYZ airlines on a one stop 8 hour flight, but I paid more money for ABC to go non-stop.

Now I know many are going to tell me "this is the airline business" "safety comes first" "industrial disputes are not the airline's fault". I am sorry I am getting tired of this rhetoric. IMO it's too easy for airlines to assume getting you there when they feel like it is acceptable.

Its about time airlines realised that people pay more money to arrive at a certain place at a certain time. Its become to easy for airline to blame engineering, staff duty limitations and host of other excuses on their own mismanagement.

If I paid for a service in the above scenario I would at least be expecting some sort of compensation and perhaps if such was the norm airlines might be a bit more careful with over zealous scheduling and staffing.

Short of the above I might suggest (ok, tongue in cheek) the following on all airline bookings

A. ABC Airlines does not guarantee that your flight will depart on time or on the date ticketed
B. ABC Airlines does not guarantee that your flight will get to the destination


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9771 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Thread starter):
If I paid for a service in the above scenario I would at least be expecting some sort of compensation and perhaps if such was the norm airlines might be a bit more careful with over zealous scheduling and staffing.

Airlines could provide compensation for such events much more readily, they would just have to charge twice as much per ticket.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9748 times:

I think the most annoying thing about airlines today is having a "from" but not a "to" when it comes to pricing.

There could well be a price ceiling on most fares however passengers are never informed up to what price a ticket can increase when they are actually buying that particular ticket.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineLgauaok From United States of America, joined May 2008, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9554 times:

Lack of staff at the airports

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9545 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Thread starter):
Short of the above I might suggest (ok, tongue in cheek) the following on all airline bookings

A. ABC Airlines does not guarantee that your flight will depart on time or on the date ticketed
B. ABC Airlines does not guarantee that your flight will get to the destination

If you're in the States, they already have that- it's written quite clearly in the contract of carriage.
And, as you've said, this is the state of the business.

Now, we can agree all day long that it's a shame that the worldwide customer service attitude of most companies, both airline and otherwise, is a joke.

But, sadly, buying an airline ticket it hardly making a contract as you've described; it's more along the lines of, "Here's my contribution to keeping your country out of bankruptcy for at least one more week. In return, could I please ask you to take me somewhere without killing me?"


User currently offlineAntdenatale From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9488 times:
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You know what, I agree totally with you.

Sometimes airlines forget that we are the consumer, we buy our ticket we should at least be entitled to what pay for.

I don't care about labour disputes, I don't care about staff shortages, to a certain degree I don't care about aircraft going tech, I do care about getting the service I paid for. If that means that we no longer have access to cheap fares then so be it. I would rather pay a highier fare and get better service.

We don't put up with poor customer service from any other sector so why should we cut the airlines any slack.

Until we get ourselves out of the menatility that a transatalntic ticket can cost £250.00 I am afraid it will not get any better. The only way for us to make a statement is to vote with our feet as we would with any other business.

I am off now to put my flameproof suit on  flamed 


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9487 times:

1. Lack of staff
2. Lack of training
3. Lack of empowerment of staff
4. Lack of motivated staff (pay is part of that, but far from the only issue)
5. Everything is cut to the bone. No room for any irregularity, be it weather, mechanical, crew, etc.
6. Lack of accountability, at all levels
7. Attitude that the customer is the problem, not the reason for the airlines' existence

I work in the industry and agree that it's a shame about what the business has become.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9438 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
But, sadly, buying an airline ticket it hardly making a contract as you've described; it's more along the lines of, "Here's my contribution to keeping your country out of bankruptcy for at least one more week. In return, could I please ask you to take me somewhere without killing me?"

To use the USA as an example. I want to travel from LAX-EWR for a weekend event let's say it's a wedding. Will somebody tell me how to I get there for a Saturday night event and home on Sunday for work on Monday? The way it is there's no commitment to get me there and back on time and what's even worse is that nobody seems to give a damn that I dont get there and back on time (remembering I paid more to get the flight times I wanted).

Sorry I dont think airlines are outrageously cheap. For example, lets try that LAX-EWR for the wedding this weekend. $1,219.20 per person non-stop on CO. I have paid for the flights that suit me. I am entitled to get there, within reason, at the time they sold me. Assume the Co flights gets diverted and is no longer non-stop and I miss my wedding, I might as well have taken the $477.40 per person flight on US.

I would like to see some consumer regulation for when airlines fail to deliver what they sold. When a flight doesn't make it to the destination, within reason (excusing weather and uncontrollable events) then the consumer is entitled to a refund.



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2849 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9233 times:

So, what do you suggest an airline do when a technical problem becomes evident in flight? Just keep flying to save you a $200 taxi fare and the inconvenience of missing your scheduled event?

Perhaps the airline for you is Turkish. They got their passengers to Amsterdam, despite a small technical fault that had repeatedly presented itself on earlier flights.

You must accept that this is simply a risk factor if you choose to fly.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9171 times:



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 1):
Airlines could provide compensation for such events much more readily, they would just have to charge twice as much per ticket.

If that is what it costs to provide reliable service they should have the b***s to simply charge that amount.

Quoting Antdenatale (Reply 5):
I don't care about labour disputes, I don't care about staff shortages, to a certain degree I don't care about aircraft going tech, I do care about getting the service I paid for. If that means that we no longer have access to cheap fares then so be it. I would rather pay a highier fare and get better service.

True in most other areas of commerce. I long ago learned in business that any transaction that had more than a couple pages of fine print was basically anti-customer

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 6):
7. Attitude that the customer is the problem, not the reason for the airlines' existence

I work in the industry and agree that it's a shame about what the business has become.

My long standing phrase for this is 'customer as enemy', which phrase appears in one of the above posts



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12436 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9151 times:

What annoys me is the fact that they make it so difficult to talk to anyone; even when you want to complain or contact somebody, they have a list of "pre-written" complaints and assume your complaint will fit into one of those. If it doesn't, tough.

User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9128 times:



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
So, what do you suggest an airline do when a technical problem becomes evident in flight? Just keep flying to save you a $200 taxi fare and the inconvenience of missing your scheduled event?

Frequent tech problems may be a result of poor preventative maintainance. And many of us suspect that tech may be used as an excuse inappropriately. I don't think there is any enforced law against it.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9098 times:

I think all of this can be summed up in with one little phrase that's been around for eons - "You get what you pay for." In order for service to improve fares are going to have to increase - pure and simple truth.

1978 YIELD PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE = $0.0849
2007 YIELD PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE = $ 0.0408 (in 1978 Dollars)

[Edited 2009-03-31 10:33:35]


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9024 times:



Quoting Antdenatale (Reply 5):
We don't put up with poor customer service from any other sector so why should we cut the airlines any slack.

Why you ask? Because "we" (not necessarily you or I) put up with it because airlines learned some time ago that customer "loyalty" can easily be bought regardless of the depths to which customer service descends. The U.S. legacy airlines figured out long ago that all they need to do to keep them coming back, regardless of their disregard for customer service, is to keep throwing lots of metaphorical habit-forming narcotics at their pax in the form of FF program giveaways and cheap fares as needed to retain the "loyalty" of pax who vow (emptily) to "never fly again" with them again.

Therefore, since the overwhelming majority of customers have indicated convincingly that service doesn't actually matter when choosing the airline(s) with whom they will book their next flights... in a very real sense, if the customer is not the problem they are very much a major cause for indifferent service (or worse) since they have told the airlines that keeping them supplied with the narcotics to which they are addicted far outweighs customer service levels when choosing the airline to whom they will be "loyal."

Or, one might say that airline customers by and large are their own worst enemies when it comes to customer service inasmuch as they demonstrate by their booking tendencies that it is almost impossible to "chase them away" by providing poor service. On the other hand they have shown that they can easily be chased away if/when an airline chooses to reduce or curtail the supply of narcotics (FF giveaways and cheap fares) to their "loyal" customers.


User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8983 times:



Quoting FrmrCAPCADET (Reply 9):
If that is what it costs to provide reliable service they should have the b***s to simply charge that amount.

They can't, because the number of people who shop by price out numbers the people who shop by service and reliability.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8959 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8941 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 12):
I think all of this can be summed up in with one little phrase that's been around for eons - "You get what you pay for." In order for service to improve fares are going to have to increase - pure and simple truth.

1978 YIELD PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE = $0.0849
2007 YIELD PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE = $ 0.0408 (in 1978 Dollars)

Is that adjusted for inflation?

Yields can go up without you necessarily paying more. What is needed is a decent pricing policy for landing fees at airports. The mess you get now is because of the current "at cost pricing". Airlines love it because they get to abuse our airports, creating mass congestion. And it doesn't matter to the airlines because 1) there is no alternative airport in most places and all competitors are affected and 2) you're already locked in the plane with no way out so who cares? But the sad thing is our elected "leaders" rely on airlines to make aviation policy (many employees = many voters), so a change there isn't likely to ever happen. Even some airport privatizations have prompted airline lobby groups to pull strings and have the authorities regulate how airports can charge landing fees.

[Edited 2009-03-31 11:30:40]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBpat777 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8917 times:

I think it would have to be the checked baggage fees. I can understand a charge for a 2nd checked bag but the first is totally shafting the passengers. Does anyone know of plans to drop these absurb chargers.

User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8861 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
Is that adjusted for inflation?

Yep!

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
Yields can go up without you necessarily paying more.

1990 CASM = $0.0919
2007 CASM = $0.0792 (in 1990 Dollars)

1990 YEILD = $0.1241
2007 YEILD = $0.0806 (in 1990 Dollars)

People were clearly paying more.

[Edited 2009-03-31 12:27:41]


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8959 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8796 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 17):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
Is that adjusted for inflation?

Yep!

Well yeah, silly me. . .you did indicate it was in 1978 dollars.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 17):
1990 CASM = $0.0919
2007 CASM = $0.0792 (in 1990 Dollars)

1990 YIELD = $0.1241
2007 YIELD = $0.0806 (in 1990 Dollars)

People were clearly paying more.

They were indeed. Then again I wouldn't mind either if my flight wasn't delayed all the time.

What I meant by my post is that we can boost yield with proper airport management that reduces delays, and mentioned specifically pricing policies.

[Edited 2009-03-31 12:13:27]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8782 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Well yeah, silly me. . .you did indicated it was in 1978 dollars.

Well, the first post was in 1978 dollars but I only have actual CASM data from 1990 forward so I had to adjust the 2007 numbers to 1990 instead of 1978 to prove my point.

(Yield data, however, I have all the way back to 1930 something.)

[Edited 2009-03-31 12:28:38]


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineSbworcs From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 842 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8626 times:

My main problem with it is that it is all skewed in favour of the airlines.

They only guarantee to get you to your destination in a timely manner - not necessarily on time or by the same route. Weather can be used to waive all responsibility to everything

The passenger however MUST

Be at the airport at least x minutes before the flight - regardless of if there are weather issues in your starting journey
Must only have x kg of luggage or face further charges
Must not change the route or time of travel without incurring (sometimes) heavy financial penalty
Cannot transfer something you legally own (The Ticket) to someone else if you are unable to travel (I realise that their are some airline that allow you to do this but you have to pay!!)

Why can't conditions of carriage be fairer to both sides and standardised across the industry



The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlineAtomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8474 times:



Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 12):
1978 YIELD PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE = $0.0849
2007 YIELD PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE = $ 0.0408 (in 1978 Dollars)

I think that's the wrong way to think about it. Airlines fly way more seat miles than they did in 1978, so the denominator is different. An airline's RASM may decrease but total revenue could go up...And I'm sure the cost side of the equation has come down significantly. Besides, as a customer I don't really care about any particular airline's marginal profit or loss on each sale. I think the company has a right to seek a fair average annual profit over the long term, so I don't begrudge them that. If, on the other hand, they can't make a profit on their route/cost/fare structure, then that's not my fault either. In a larger sense, I guess it's true that fares have come down and now so many millions more people can fly, but that also means that the pie has grown, and airlines are competing for more customer dollars in a larger market. While I suppose your adage is right that you get what you pay for, I think what really bugs people is that you don't *consistently* get what you pay for, at least in coach. Sometimes certain fares are extremely high, and sometimes they're dirt cheap. Sometimes the traveling experience is great, and sometimes it's lousy. There is often very little correlation between the two factors, however, and there is incredible variation from trip to trip. I think people just want a reasonable fare and a reasonable expectation of a consistent level of service.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 13):

I think it's a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle, though. You can blame the airline passengers for being "their own worst enemy", but I also think that at this point in time, it's not unreasonable for a customer to start thinking that way. I've flown on pretty much all the major carriers in the U.S., and for the most part (with maybe some exceptions), it's a roll of the dice no matter *which* carrier you end up on. And if, as a customer, you feel that your odds of having a crummy travel experience are pretty much similar on all of them, why not just choose the cheapest fare and hope for the best? It's better than paying more for another airline which may or may not be better, and then having a poor experience on that flight anyway.


User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8258 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
But, sadly, buying an airline ticket it hardly making a contract as you've described; it's more along the lines of, "Here's my contribution to keeping your country out of bankruptcy for at least one more week. In return, could I please ask you to take me somewhere without killing me?"

LOL this is one of the best statements I've ever read on this website!


User currently offlineCytz_pilot From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8080 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 7):
I want to travel from LAX-EWR for a weekend event let's say it's a wedding. Will somebody tell me how to I get there for a Saturday night event and home on Sunday for work on Monday?

Take a red-eye. Otherwise, fly Friday. Geez, how did we survive when it took 4 months to get across the United States?

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 7):
Sorry I dont think airlines are outrageously cheap. For example, lets try that LAX-EWR for the wedding this weekend.

I think if you receive 5 days notice of a wedding, and you live on opposite sides of the continent, the bride and groom really don't want you there that much. I just paid $220 for a round-trip flight from the west coast to east, 5 weeks from now...all on legacy carriers.

I understand that some people have problems with air travel as it is, but it seems people are less able to roll with the punches these days. Everyone wants to complain. Maybe we, as a people, are just plain too stressed.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7713 times:



Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 21):
I've flown on pretty much all the major carriers in the U.S., and for the most part (with maybe some exceptions), it's a roll of the dice no matter *which* carrier you end up on. And if, as a customer, you feel that your odds of having a crummy travel experience are pretty much similar on all of them, why not just choose the cheapest fare and hope for the best?

Sadly to say, I fully agree. It truly is a "crap shoot" when choosing an airline for a domestic flight in the U.S. And when I am "reving" (as opposed to non-reving) my thinking is exactly the same, to the point where I will even choose a flight requiring a connection over a non-stop if I can save >$20. There is simply nothing to differentiate the service levels of the 5+ airlines from which I can choose on routes where I typically "rev" when I choose not to non-rev. I do have one airline that I prefer when "reving" on the route I fly most often, not because of their outstanding overall reputation for service but rather because they have consistently treated me very well as a non-rev from another airline.


25 ORDagent : That's impossible. Prices for air travel in deregulated markets fluctuate by the minute. The only price that the airline can guarantee is the full Y
26 Jetfuel : WRONG! I should not have to take an extra day off work just because an airline cant be bothered to get me there in time, as per the schedule I PAID F
27 Csm737 : ATOMSAREENOUGH AND TANGO-BRAVO, I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF, but here it go's... I would say that I have flown a lot in my 19 years (30+ fl
28 PPVRA : But what happened to you qualifies as an emergency. If the technical problem was deemed safe to continue the pilot most assuredly would have proceede
29 FrmrCAPCADET : Amongst us wine buyers there is the observation that you are never disappointed when you try a cheap wine.
30 Cytz_pilot : Isn't that a better way for us all to plan though? Setting ourselves up with a buffer? Yes you paid for a seat, on a day, at a time, on a plane, and
31 V Jet : Do us all a favour and read the conditions of carriage!
32 Justlump : People forget the miracle of today's air travel. Everyday millions of passengers fly to the most remote of locations on tens of thousands of flights!
33 Post contains links Boeing727 : ...I thnik this thread qualifies quite a few of you under this category... Enjoy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk7nKjr9Keo Boeing727
34 JOEYCAPPS : With all due respect, A) I would hope that as responsible adults, you wouldn't fly 4+ hours, to go to an event, with only a few hours inbetween arriva
35 Csm737 : boeing727 A. Video was hilarious B. You made my point exactly well done
36 Grozzy : I agree that an airline ticket should be considered like a legal contract. I expect a certain level of punctuality and a certain level of service. My
37 AirlineCritic : Eh? I don't think we are expecting the 5 star treatment. We are expecting to get there in some reasonable amount of time. Yes, tech problems can occu
38 Anonms : This is why you plan ahead and make Plan Bs. I bought a plane ticket at the last minute from VX to go home and look for something. The last flight out
39 TylerDurden : Most annoying 'thing' is the lack of any Airline Passenger Bill of Rights to address most the issues listed above. As soon as passengers are treated a
40 Justlump : I agree with you on this issue. However, one of the main problems facing the industry currently is the use of third-party contract workers. In order
41 Tango-Bravo : What exactly (or generally speaking) do you have in mind? Please name an issue or two and how it would be satisfactorily resolved by front line staff
42 TylerDurden : Good point. Sorry, no time for an essay in this class. Suffice it to say that any reasonable issue that would bring value to the customer should be w
43 Robsaw : Actually, I'd say that the airline industry has the most detailed contracts you will find in any retail business (at least in most of North America a
44 Tango-Bravo : OK... please name just one reasonable issue that could and should be handled by frontline staff ...if only they were empowered to do so. ...and also
45 Commavia : Well, I - like many (if not most) others - certainly commiserate with the original poster's complaints. Air travel is not what it used to be. Reliabil
46 Atomsareenough : I think a lot of people are arguing against somewhat of a strawman. I don't think ANYBODY rightfully expects an extremely *high* level of service for
47 Jetfuel : This entire issue is quite multi-faceted. You might hate this suggestion, but I believe it is the solution. re-regulation................. (i hear the
48 StealthZ : A quick question, On this hypothetical LAX-EWR journey, what % of the passengers are significantly delayed? I have been travelling all over the globe
49 0NEWAIR0 : Flights between LAX-EWR (Jan 1 2008 - Jan 1 2009) 3257 Average Arrival Delay 12.95 minutes Total Number Canceled 47 Total Number Diverted 26 Total Nu
50 Jetfuel : People once used Greyhound the way they now use planes. That doesn't mean we should accept bus like service when flying. If a train derailed thats no
51 Isitsafenow : The most annoying thing is the lack of training for the younger gate agent or younger passenger service agent. Ask them an intelligent question about
52 Chapavaeaa : I'm sorry...this analogy just doesn't hold water for me anymore....I am in the business...and have been for 25+ years. I'm currently writing this on
53 Tango-Bravo : Holistically... what other dimensions of air travel do you have in mind? I am well aware that there are many that can be mentioned and could probably
54 Atomsareenough : 0NEWAIR0, you've been posting a lot of numbers, and I really appreciate that you can add a quantitative dimension to the discussion, so thanks for th
55 BI601BN : That's a really dishonest argument to make by offering numbers that are from a fully regulated industry and then comparing them to numbers from a pri
56 AAAL : I think even if the flight would have been on time some type of compliant would have been said. The industry is not great. But I for one know that the
57 0NEWAIR0 : I get my data from Form 41 data, the BTS databases, other FAA and DOT publications, and other, reliable, 3rd party travel sources such as the TIA, AT
58 0NEWAIR0 : I just saw your post refering to one of my earlier posts. I wanted to point out that YIELD is an industry term for the amount someone paid to fly 1 m
59 Justlump : As I said in reply 40, many airlines are contracting frontline jobs to third party vendors who pay minimum wages and provide few benefits in order to
60 Post contains links and images Alias1024 :
61 Mandala499 : The eternal debate seems to be, WHAT DO WE PAY FOR? It's simple: To get from A to B on time AND To get from A to B safely... Now, those two are contr
62 BI601BN : Airline costs were never deregulated in 1978. Only the revenue side of the equationi was deregulated. What I really mean is that the cost side of the
63 0NEWAIR0 : Didn't the bankruptcies take care of this?
64 IAirAllie : If the delay was due to an issue that the airline is responsible for then why didn't you ask them to provide you with a taxi voucher. I've successful
65 BI601BN : Are you speaking of Continental's first bankruptcy? If so, yes, I suppose it removed that obstacle for that particular airline but at an extraordinar
66 PPVRA : That kind of price regulation nearly killed off freight rail in the US. Since (partial) deregulation of rail, the US freight rail industry has been b
67 0NEWAIR0 : I believe the main argument is experience. A pilot who has more experience gets to fly bigger, and more complex, aircraft with more lives at stake wh
68 BI601BN : A nice thought but as I pointed out the actual risk experienced by a passenger on a 777 versus an A320 is in no way measurably different. Experience
69 Alias1024 : Ignoring the parts of this that I disagree with, I fail to see how any of it even remotely explains how the "deregulation" of costs will raise yields
70 BI601BN : To oversimplfy: Deregulate labor, lower labor costs. Lower costs, better yields will follow since both costs vs price find a market equilibrium. Pric
71 Alias1024 : Correct, but the other side of the equation is a distance as a statistical unit, usually either miles or kilometers. Costs aren't anywhere in the equ
72 T5towbar : It doesn't matter how much money you are paying. You are traveling to one of the most congested and delay prone airspace in the entire US. You better
73 AlexInWa : Instead of "buy on board" why not "order before"? Meaning: If I want to eat on my 6 hr flight to HNL give me the option to decide what I want in advan
74 Isitsafenow : We agree training 'aint what it used to be". Now defend this guy. One night about 8 or so years ago, I was at CVG changing planes. I was in the A wai
75 Justlump : I agree with you in that there are many instances that just boggle the mind. Believe me, I've been there too. But having worked in the industry for a
76 Isitsafenow : Thanks for your post. Please understand that I am NOT down on all agents.....I was one at one time in my life. I am talking about the one or two perc
77 767Lover : I think part of the problem, that airlines fail to acknowledge in regular customer dealings, is that $ amounts have become almost like Monopoly money.
78 Tango-Bravo : ...a very simple yet >95% correct formula I came up with during my years with a major airline as frontline staff, and before that in another deregula
79 Mandala499 : I'll print this one out in large font for the management to see! *evil grin* As much as the low fare supporters want to prove it... well, sorry, but
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