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QR To Place Large Aircraft Order In June  
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7914 times:
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The National is reporting that QR is going to place a large order at the June airshow and will launch services to three additional in the United States as well as expand into South America.

I'm guessing 77Ls since it said "mid-sized planes" and they currently operate the type. It has the range necessary and with TK getting planes relatively quickly, I expect QR can acquire birds in the "near-term" as well.

[Edited 2009-03-31 13:40:25]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2523 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

I just can't imagine that QR needs to have even more planes on order than they already do.
I know they have A350, 787, A380's all coming - don't they still have some 777's left to be delivered as well? The way I read the article, the reference to "mid-sized planes" is that QR is going to use that size aircraft for their new North American destinations. It would follow that the order would be for the same, but it doesn't necessarily say that. So, I guess it's conceivable that they could get 77W's, more A380's or....dare I suggest it?......748's


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7676 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Thread starter):
QR is going to place a large order at the June airshow

Given the way the first quarter has gone, a top-up of a few 77Ls would qualify as a "large order".  Sad



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7633 times:
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Quoting ER757 (Reply 1):
So, I guess it's conceivable that they could get 77W's, more A380's or....dare I suggest it?......748's

I'm thinking 77Ls will be the most likely since their existing six (delivered and on order) are already tasked to cities, so they would need more for the US expansion and the 77L has both the range and the payload lift to reach the West Coast if they want to take on EK to LAX and SFO.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10023 posts, RR: 96
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7242 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Thread starter):
I'm guessing 77Ls since it said "mid-sized planes"

Unless they know something about the A380-900 that we don't, and "mid-sized" means A380-800......  faint   duck 

I have to say a "large" order of 77L's would be something else  faint 

I wonder if it might be a split order.....

The new 238t A332 is a pretty capable plane these days...

Rgds


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

Order threads on April 1st always nice  Smile


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

Bearing in mind that this may all by April 1st nonsense, could it be a slight mistranslation and it could be that QR is looking at placing an order for large aircraft not a large order.

I always thought 5 A380s didn't really fit with a fleet of 80 A350s


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7005 times:

The 3 additional cities in USA are ORD, LAX and SFO!

U will see more B 77Ws and B 77Ls being ordered


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6426 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4):
The new 238t A332 is a pretty capable plane these days...



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 7):
The 3 additional cities in USA are ORD, LAX and SFO!

It is a good plane, Astuteman, and in general I would consider it except that while it has the raw range to make North America, it cannot do so with a payload anywhere near what a 77L can and with EK already sending 77Ls with fancy three-class cabins to North America, I think QR would do the same.

Also, I had a feeling QR might be looking for cities like LAX and SFO which is even more of a stretch for an A332. And since QR will already send 77Ls to North America, by adding more, they have a larger fleet to work with for substitutions for unplanned issues that might take a scheduled 77L out of rotation (since they could likely substitute a 77W for closer cities - especially at 77L loads).


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1681 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6292 times:



Quoting Stitch (Thread starter):
The National is reporting that QR is going to place a large order at the June airshow and will launch services to three additional in the United States as well as expand into South America.

My bet is they'll start LAX OR SFO, not both, ORD and a 3rd unpredictable city (SEA, DFW, DEN, SAN etc.) not already served to the Middle East.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 1):
guess it's conceivable that they could get 77W's, more A380's or....dare I suggest it?......748's

I'm crossing my fingers for a 747 order! Now THAT would be truly remarkable!


User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6140 times:



Quoting Stitch (Thread starter):
The National is reporting that QR is going to place a large order at the June airshow

Personally I think it'd be "fun" for QR to order a few more A319 and A320s. You could fly (barring bilaterals) to a whole lot of new airports that are not viable on widebodies. There is a lot of business in the Gulf and I don't see a particular reason why adding a flight from Al-Ain, for example, to DOH shouldn't work. I'd be intrigued to see the numbers on such flights.

If this turns out to be true and they do order even more planes, man, corporate planning will be busy  bigthumbsup .

Kleinsim


User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6124 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
Also, I had a feeling QR might be looking for cities like LAX and SFO which is even more of a stretch for an A332

That would most certainly be a stretch for a 332 at 8300mi. That's almost as far as FRA-PER at 8600mi. Probably would have to be a glider for the last couple of hundreds of miles...

Kleinsim


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1681 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6015 times:



Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 10):
There is a lot of business in the Gulf and I don't see a particular reason why adding a flight from Al-Ain, for example, to DOH shouldn't work. I'd be intrigued to see the numbers on such flights.

At one point, such flights were pretty common with Gulf Air. They operated to Sharjah, Ras al Khaimh and I'm pretty sure Al Ain as well (I know QR also had Sharjah).
But I don't think these flights were economically viable, they were probably there for political reasons and face-saving. Such routes must have contributed to the clunkiness of GF as (since the 1980s at least) they were all operated by 737 or A320 family aircraft and were probably overkill.

But nevertheless, there are people who live close to Ras al Khaimah, Al Ain, Sharjah, Ajman etc. If QR wanted to serve these cities to feed its longhaul network then Embraer-sized and CR-sized aircraft would do splendidly. The same can be said for GF, EY and EK. Now here's a bold idea:
What all these airlines should do is get together and form a regional affiliate airline to provide feeder services (like in the US). It would require collective cooperation, but would reduce costs due to the economies of scale.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5981 times:
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Quoting Directorguy (Reply 9):
My bet is they'll start LAX OR SFO, not both, ORD and a 3rd unpredictable city (SEA, DFW, DEN, SAN etc.) not already served to the Middle East.

The Executive for Snohomish County (where PAE is located) did speak with Etihad Airways officials while visiting the UAE about the possibility of EY starting a flight to SEA.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10023 posts, RR: 96
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5877 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
It is a good plane, Astuteman, and in general I would consider it except that while it has the raw range to make North America, it cannot do so with a payload anywhere near what a 77L

That's fair comment. It's pretty stretched for the routes they quote.  thumbsup 

Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 11):
That would most certainly be a stretch for a 332 at 8300mi. That's almost as far as FRA-PER at 8600mi. Probably would have to be a glider for the last couple of hundreds of miles...

Oh it could fly it ok, just don't expect to put anything in it, other than fuel....  Wink
(and a flight crew....... and coffee)

Rgds


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5828 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
Oh it could fly it ok, just don't expect to put anything in it, other than fuel...  Wink (and a flight crew....... and coffee)

Sounds like the old Boeing 2707-200 SST. It could cross the Atlantic, as long as no payload was aboard.  faint 


User currently offlineHigherflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5484 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 12):
At one point, such flights were pretty common with Gulf Air. They operated to Sharjah, Ras al Khaimh and I'm pretty sure Al Ain as well (I know QR also had Sharjah).
But I don't think these flights were economically viable, they were probably there for political reasons and face-saving.

Yes, those types of routes were very common when GF had four, then three, then two owners and there are still quite a few of the intra-Gulf routes. Politics drove virtually everything in route planning and hub strategy when there were multiple owners. Since Al Ain was the birthplace of Sheikh Zayid, there was huge pressure in establishing routes to/from the new airport.


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1681 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5231 times:



Quoting Higherflyer (Reply 16):
Yes, those types of routes were very common when GF had four, then three, then two owners and there are still quite a few of the intra-Gulf routes. Politics drove virtually everything in route planning and hub strategy when there were multiple owners. Since Al Ain was the birthplace of Sheikh Zayid, there was huge pressure in establishing routes to/from the new airport.

I wonder if QR, EY, GF or even EK will make the same mistake. Cities like Al Ain, RAK, SHJ, DMM are only useful on low-capacity/high frequency model. EK makes DOH, DMM, BAH and MCT work because of cargo and obviously it's the larger airline, and requires the most feed, not to mention DXB is huge in terms of O&D.

For the time being, it's best for major carriers to avoid Al Ain, Sharjah, RAK, Ajman etc. since they can't serve them economically. Residents in these places will continue to drive to the nearest big city and catch a flight from there.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5158 times:

That will probably be the sole large order at the Paris air Show ...............

User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5011 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 17):
For the time being, it's best for major carriers to avoid Al Ain, Sharjah, RAK, Ajman etc. since they can't serve them economically.

What would you reckon are the reasons that these carriers cannot serve the smaller markets? I'd think it's a lack of small aircraft, not necessarily a lack of demand. GF doesn't nearly have as much feed as the likes of QR, EK, and EY have plus I am not sure if GF really timed these flights optimally into a bank.

Kleinsim


User currently onlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2523 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4919 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
I always thought 5 A380s didn't really fit with a fleet of 80 A350s

I think that's 5 more A380's than they need, actually. IMO, QR could do very well without venturing into the VLA marketplace at all


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1681 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4592 times:



Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 19):
What would you reckon are the reasons that these carriers cannot serve the smaller markets? I'd think it's a lack of small aircraft, not necessarily a lack of demand. GF doesn't nearly have as much feed as the likes of QR, EK, and EY have plus I am not sure if GF really timed these flights optimally into a bank.

Kleinsim

I think that the smaller Gulf markets aren't served because it is a lack of small aircraft, as they wouldn't always warrant large aircraft. These cities would provide valuable feed, and I think EY is tapping that market by offering city check-in facilities where pax would then take a bus to AUH airport.
There is no high-speed rail connection in the Gulf, which would have almost certainly taken care of the problem.
As an example:
It would be foolish for EK to deploy A332s to AUH, Al Ain, Ras al Khaimah etc. I don't think they'd want to give up their 'all widebody' airline to acquire a few Embraers or Bombardiers to serve the small cities (unless they start up an affiliate and call it Emirates Link). I don't know if EK would be able to operate domestic UAE services-think of the political repercussions. But let's for the sake of argument forget politics and pretend that UAE domestic/intra-Gulf is a given. EY would certainly reciprocate service with its own Etihad Link, and Qatar Airways not wanting to be missed out would start Qatar Lite (or a similary named enterprise).
This would give passengers in the remoter Gulf cities access to wider networks. DXB, AUH, DOH are so well developed the major world cities would be 1, 2 stops away.
Regarding timings/frequencies-Well flights that connect with the European bank would be important, but the Indian subcontinent banks would probably be the most important given the high number of expats from that region.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3958 times:

Its pretty obvious that the 3 additional U.S. cities that QR intends to launch are SFO, ORD and LAX as all 3 are UA hubs and offer the best chance of success compared to DFW/SEA/MIA. Both SFO and LAX will be flown nonstop on a daily basis using a B 772LR where as ORD is likely to get a B 773ER due to its higher demand. However according to the article mentioned above, Mr Baker states that even ORD will be served using a mid range aircraft which can only mean a B 772LR. This is not a wise move as ORD needs a B 773ER and its better if QR replace IAD with a B 772LR and send the B 773ER to ORD instead!

With regards to the mega order to be placed at the Paris Air show, one should expect QR to place another size able order for more Boeing 777-200LRs. Currently, QR has ordered 6 B 772LRs and they will be used to IAH (2), MEL (2) and SYD (2). They will need to order a minimum of 8 more B 772LRs for their USA and Brazil expansion however, one should not be surprised if an order for 14 B 772LRs is placed in anticipation of more flying rights being granted to Australia especially.

As for its one un-named South American destination, its obviously going to be in Brazil where QR used to have an office in GRU. EK currently flies a daily B 772LR to GRU so it shall be interesting to see if QR want to compete directly with them or prefer to be "pro-active" by launching DOH-GIG (Rio De Janerio) rather than "re-active" !


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