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JetBlue Considers Move To LAX From LGB  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25126 posts, RR: 46
Posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11423 times:

Our friend at CrankyFlier interviewed Dave Barger at last weeks Phoenix Airline Symposium and seems JetBlue continues to experience frustration with LGB operations and might consider shifting more activity up to LAX.

Quote:
Dave: Let’s talk about Long Beach for a second. It has been a huge frustration for us. They need to make good on their commitment to improve the airport experience. The City of Long Beach couldn’t have a more committed partner than JetBlue, but it’s been difficult.

Cranky: So what exactly is the problem? Is it that you can’t use your E-190s in the commuter slots?
Dave: We would like to be able to use our E-190s in those commuter slots. That’s the perfect use of those slots, because these aircraft are very quiet. But the best example is that it took us 30 months to build a brand new terminal at JFK but we’re still stuck in temporary trailers in Long Beach. I don’t think communities always realize what an economic tool an airport is. You can’t take commercial air service for granted.

Cranky: How much of an issue is this? Would you consider leaving the airport?
Dave: Well, LAX is part of our LA Basin strategy, but it becomes a necessary part because of the lack of partnership with the City of Long Beach. People might have to go to LAX to use us, because we’re actually wanted there.

Cranky: So you would leave Long Beach?
Dave: I wouldn’t take any option off the table. Municipalities must make good on their commitments. That includes parking, terminals, baggage claim and every other part of the experience. The message I would give is that especially in a recession, you shouldn’t take air service for granted.

I dont blame them as they are basically stuck with a zero-growth airport, and one that seemingly is extremely slow to proceed with previously approved facility upgrades.


Part 1 of the interview
http://crankyflier.com/2009/03/30/ac...uct-fresh-and-long-beach-troubles/
Part 2
http://crankyflier.com/2009/03/31/ac...hanges-and-international-partners/


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11132 times:

Where would they put B6 at LAX? Space is at a minimum to begin with.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9604 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11110 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 1):
Where would they put B6 at LAX? Space is at a minimum to begin with.

Will T2 be losing NW?

T3 and T6 have been swapping back and forth for a while the smaller airlines.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11076 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I dont blame them as they are basically stuck with a zero-growth airport,

So what does that make LAX?  Wink

Not too much space over there either.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25126 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11047 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 1):
Where would they put B6 at LAX? Space is at a minimum to begin with.

JetBlue starts in T-6 this summer, which does have additional room for them if needed.

Other terminals also could host a larger B6 operation if it came to that.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
Will T2 be losing NW?

NWA is consolidating into T-5 with DL. As far as the legalities and its ownership stake in LAXTwo Corp that is still being worked thru.

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 3):
So what does that make LAX? Not too much space over there either.

LAX has no flight caps, no curfew, while having adequate facilities for lease.

In other words, plenty of opportunity for growth if B6 wishes.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10927 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
In other words, plenty of opportunity for growth if B6 wishes.

Not necessarily. The amount of available gate space will dictate how much B6 could grow. And based on their current operation at LGB, I don't think LAX has the available gate space to accommodate all of their needs, if they elect to shift most of or all of their operations to LAX....


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10917 times:

Nothing but fluff and empty threats, just like when JetBlue threatened FLL that they will move to MIA five years ago.


a.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10916 times:
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Sounds like an April Fool's joke to me.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25126 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10872 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 5):
Not necessarily. The amount of available gate space will dictate how much B6 could grow. And based on their current operation at LGB, I don't think LAX has the available gate space to accommodate all of their needs, if they elect to shift most of or all of their operations to LAX....

I can assure you, LAX can accomodate 6 or so gates for B6 is they so desire it at LAX.

Already growth up to 4 is somewhat penciled in by LAWA in T6.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Nothing but fluff and empty threats, just like when JetBlue threatened FLL that they will move to MIA five years ago.

Might be, but Long Beach City Council has not been very receptive to JetBlue's comments and wishes the last couple of years regarding new facility, and ability to access commuter slots.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
Sounds like an April Fool's joke to me.

Story is from last weeks conference in PHX and was posted on 3/30.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10840 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Story is from last weeks conference in PHX and was posted on 3/30.

B6 is probably using as leverage to light a fire underneath the Long Beach City Council. If the Council were smart, they would work very hard to keep B6 the hometown airline....

If B6 left, is there any other airline that could utilize those slots? At the end of the day, B6 was driving all that competition....


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10684 times:

If B6 leaves, AA and others might reenter. I wouldnt be opposed to that. I miss having a nonstop flight from LGB to DFW. Even though I live closer to LAX, LGB is so much less hassle.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10676 times:

Can't blame them for looking. And there is probably a good case to be made for the move. But what are the chances that B6 is just trying to get leverage for negotiations at LGB?


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10636 times:

I always thought it was a stupid strategy to set up their major west coast base at a small, underdeveloped airport with no growth potential (due to community opposition). Even assuming that everything B6 is saying is true, didn't they understand the slot restrictions, etc. before moving into LGB?

Kind of like WN at DAL - I don't have a lot of sympathies for companies that make investments fully understanding the restrictions in place, yet cry foul later on when they start to feel the implications.


User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10607 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Can't blame them for looking. And there is probably a good case to be made for the move. But what are the chances that B6 is just trying to get leverage for negotiations at LGB?

I don't think this has to do with negotiations. Rather, it sounds like B6 is trying to get the City Council to make good on the promises they made.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10607 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
I always thought it was a stupid strategy to set up their major west coast base at a small, underdeveloped airport with no growth potential (due to community opposition).

This move (if it happens) may have been in the cards for a long time. Sure LGB has little growth potential, but if B6 went straight for LAX, how quickly would the big boys have moved in to squash them? But since they were just some airline out at LGB, they kind of escaped notice.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10582 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
But since they were just some airline out at LGB, they kind of escaped notice.

Not so much. An airline like B6 doesn't start operations at a major international airport, which is a UA hub and focus city for many other airlines, and go unnoticed. It's not like the airlines that fly out of LAX have never heard of B6....


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10566 times:

JetBlue has a loyal following at LGB (myself included), many of whom appreciate the relatively cheap and hassle free experience of a small airport. I'm not so sure they can just up and move everything to LAX without some sort of customer backlash. That said, the facilities at LGB are appalling to say the least. A modern full service terminal would be most welcome.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10559 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 15):
It's not like the airlines that fly out of LAX have never heard of B6....

But at the time the airlines certainly had bigger fish to fry than fighting with B6 at LGB. At that time the core of B6 was the East Coast routes. Years ago, LGB was the right airport for B6. Now that may not be the case.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10546 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
I'm not so sure they can just up and move everything to LAX without some sort of customer backlash.

I honestly don't think they will. This threat is purely a political move on B6's part.


User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10305 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
This move (if it happens) may have been in the cards for a long time. Sure LGB has little growth potential, but if B6 went straight for LAX, how quickly would the big boys have moved in to squash them? But since they were just some airline out at LGB, they kind of escaped notice.

Interesting point. Could be - LAX is certainly a very competitive gateway, especially considering that JFK-LAX is one of the most profitable routes for AA, UA and DL.

Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 18):
I honestly don't think they will. This threat is purely a political move on B6's part.

I agree. Those slots are a goldmine. I think what we may see, however, is a switch in scheduling. Perhaps make LGB a regional airport (to SJC/OAK/SMF/SFO/SLC) with perhaps a few flights out to the JFK, IAD, and BOS focus cities.

All in all, I think it would be a bad move for JetBlue to completely pull out of LGB. Despite the terrible facilities, it is a very cheap airport to operate out of, and JetBlue has a virtual monopoly on nearly all the routes it flies.

One thing to keep in mind is how JetBlue has used LGB as a way to keep PDX, SMF, SEA and SJC viable while PDX and SMF were cut this winter. By adding LGB frequencies, JetBlue is increasing its utilization at those airports. By closing LGB and moving these flights to LAX, JetBlue would have tons more competition (mainly by WN and VA). Not sure JetBlue should really be picking a fight with them right now.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10179 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
I always thought it was a stupid strategy to set up their major west coast base at a small, underdeveloped airport with no growth potential (due to community opposition). Even assuming that everything B6 is saying is true, didn't they understand the slot restrictions, etc. before moving into LGB?

Slot restrictions are one thing that LGB and DAL have in common. Aside from that, things tend to look different. The thing about DAL is that the cities of Dallas and Ft Worth wanted to get all the airlines serving both cities to use DFW as their sole option for the said cities. They closed the Ft Worth airport to commercial traffic, but DAL stayed open with WN being the main carrier - hence the restrictions.

LGB is a NIMBY nightmare by comparison. Sure, people love the convenience of operations from LGB, but a very vocal group of people that live nearby aren't such big fans. This isn't so much an issue of trying to get all airlines to use LAX (like DFW). The restrictions are in place because of the neighborhood surrounding the airport, not the support of using the larger neighbor.

Apparently, B6 and the Long Beach City Council must have had an agreement in place a few years ago for further growth/modernization of the airport. Due to the increased volume of the opposition, it's anyone's guess that Long Beach balked on their end of the agreement.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9963 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
I can assure you, LAX can accomodate 6 or so gates for B6 is they so desire it at LAX.

Already growth up to 4 is somewhat penciled in by LAWA in T6.

Did B6 effectively kill the plans for AS in T6?



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 662 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9884 times:

All of you guys have to be kidding. There is no way that B6 is leaving LGB. Dave is just trying to put pressure on the LB City to get things done. We have a monopoly at LGB and it would be one of if not the dumbest move if the company were to shift ops from LGB to LAX. What I do see happening in the long run is that LGB will be used for more short- medim haul and LAX would be the medium-long haul airport. Over the next 5-10 years as we do expand LAX, I can see the end gate area becoming just B6.


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlineRockinflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9471 times:

I'm sure BUR could take and support a couple more frequencies as well. I'm still routing for a BUR-ORD nonstop.  optimist 


AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
User currently offlineRockinflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9421 times:

ooops, should have said rooting, LOL!


AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
25 ArcrftLvr : Are you guys close personal friends? Dave. Haha. Did you actually mean to say 'D-Money' or something?
26 Lincoln : I haven't been paying much attention to B6 at LGB (aside from every time I talk to my Dad on the phone the obligatory "Hold on, I can't hear you...th
27 Mysterzip : I think this is more of an attention-grabber interview, than anything and good for jetBlue! They need attention to their plans to expand LGB. Although
28 2707200X : Moving to LAX is a hassle and the market transferred to LA may not be the same as it is in LGB If they go ahead with the process their will be a custo
29 UN_B732 : Then again, anyone remember when AA flew DFW-LGB on the A300 (or was it JFK?) and served a hot meal on its JFK-LGB? -a
30 Eghansen : JetBlue has zero leverage with Long Beach. If the City of LB could find a way to end all commercial traffic at LGB, they would. Jetblue generates not
31 BOStonsox : I don't think they'll drop LGB as a destination, but if they can build up a sizeable focus city at LAX it would make sense, especially if B6 were to m
32 JOEYCAPPS : A few factors, mainly being the previously mentioned cahoot between B6 and LGB, and the fact that LAWA has been practically begging B6 to get into LAX
33 ScottB : The NIMBY problem at LGB has been a problem for decades. There is a reason why there were twenty-some unused slots at LGB when JetBlue originally ann
34 LAXintl : Well in some good news for B6 at LGB, they were just officialy awarded their 29th daily slot on permanent basis- one whcih was vacated by ABX in Decem
35 JOEYCAPPS : I exaggerated a bit, but its known that since losing ONT, LAWA has been trying to get them into another of their airports besides BUR. Speaking of wh
36 Icebird757 : I guess everyone on here is a comedian........oh wait your all arm chair CEO's. We are not close personal friends but when we do see each other, he d
37 Je89_w : On a side note, I saw a Jetblue E-190 at LAX on the 18th of March, taxiing and taking off on 24L. Was that a diversion from LGB due to the president's
38 Live2fly83 : if VX continues its downward spiral (financially) I could see B6 filling the gap quickly not to mention it could all be a 'preemptive strike' to furth
39 PITrules : LGB generates $4 Billion in economic activity annually. How many homes and business would need to be built on the site to generate that kind of reven
40 LAXintl : I am of the thinking that B6 realized they could not tip-toe around the LA metro area anymore needed to serve LAX at the end to truly capture and ser
41 EA CO AS : Not by a long shot. AS is still working with LAWA and the move to T6 is still planned.
42 Pit : It think this is exactly why they havent left PIT yet. They arent doing horrible here but there not doing great. The ACAA will do really anything for
43 BMI727 : Remember that B6 moved out there in 01 or 02 I think. Back then making money was hard enough even if you weren't in the crosshairs of a legacy carrie
44 B752OS : That's interesting that there is so much opposition to LGB, SNA and BUR. My question is, say SNA and LGB close down to all commercial traffic, there
45 Lincoln : As much as LGB would like to close the airport to commercial traffic, I could be mistaken, but I'm under the impression that if they were to do that
46 LAXintl : Coincidence or not, I just received documents that the LB City Council on April 21st will be voting on a host of rate increases at the airport. Landin
47 ArcrftLvr : Like what? With the exception of Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm, LAX is much closer to Universal Studios, Venice Beach, downtown LA, Hollywood, etc
48 Eghansen : Long Beach could never sell of the land that the airport sits on. This would require FAA approval which would never be forthcoming. JetBlue does not
49 LAXintl : Um they already have if you have not been up by LGB recently. Big swats of land formerly leased to Boeing have resold for various developments. There
50 ArcrftLvr : For the record, the Long Beach Airport is one of the largest economic drivers in the city. In a report generated by the City of Long Beach Economic D
51 AirframeAS : There is an extra gate that F9 used to use a while back that isn't used anymore. B6 can use that one beside the current F9 gate that F9 is using now.
52 ArcrftLvr : I thought there were plans to make capital improvements at T3?
53 LAXintl : No offense but those numbers are pretty small in the big sceme of things. $116mil in salaries does not mean the City even gets 1% of that via added t
54 Lincoln : First $116m is less than some companies spend on bonuses in a year... and as others have perviously wondered, I wonder what % of airport employees li
55 Eghansen : Were those buildings ever on airport property? An "Airport" is a specific area defined by and under the control of the FAA and the property cannot be
56 ArcrftLvr : I'm not sure I understand your dislike for LGB? As a resident of San Diego, what is it about the airport that bothers you so much? For those people t
57 2707200X : American never flew A300's from LGB but Presidential Air for a few months in the mid nineties did fly A300's from LGB to Houston I don't know which ai
58 Post contains links and images PITrules : I don't believe the MDC buildings were on airport property (and more specifically the recipient of federal airport improvement dollars). This is how t
59 ADent : UA flew 767s ORD-LGB.
60 Eghansen : I have no dislike whatsoever about LGB nor any opinion of it. I have never seen the airport except from the 405 freeway. I said that the City of Long
61 JOEYCAPPS : You're completely right. However, the jetBlue I remember (circa 2000) avoided LAX because of the competition, costs and size of LAX. They wanted to k
62 ArcrftLvr : When did UA ever fly into LGB??
63 LAXintl : As I recall UA operated ORD-LGB from around 1988 till about 93/94. LGB at one time had a very diverse list of carriers including AA, CO, TWA, US to na
64 Live2fly83 : 'technically' I agree but until they post consecutive quarters in the black then Ill say theyre 'upward' and not 'downward' over -200m in the red? fo
65 Post contains images Icebird757 : Yes UA flew into LGB and operated the 767-200 to DEN and ORD to start. Here is a shot from 1987 and the aircraft is N612UA.
66 Pgtravel : You are correct. The buildings at the northeast corner of the airport where Douglas Park is now being built as well as the former Boeing 717 plant an
67 Travelin man : Quite frankly I have little sympathy for the residents, virtually all of whom moved there knowing there were living next to an AIRPORT. Airports by d
68 AirframeAS : F9 does not fly into T3. F9 flies into T6.
69 Post contains links PITrules : Here is a more recent article, which offers some insight from City Council: http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_12095659
70 Ikramerica : If B6 were truly to move operations for LGB, I would expect them to be the "other tenant" that T3 so sorely needs, and to upgrade the current AS faci
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