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AF/KL Sign Agreement With Gol Brazil  
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

According to a press release, Air France / KLM have signed an agreement with Gol and Varig in Brazil that allows frequent flyers to accumulate miles on each others carriers, starting May 1 2009.

Air France and KLM will also place the AF/KL code on a number of Gol operated flights within Brazil.

Source: http://corporate.airfrance.com/index...4468&no_cache=1&tt_news[BackPid]=2

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4299 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

Is this the first step in becoming a Skyteam member, or are they just entering into a marketing arrangement like DL has with HA?


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

Does the codeshares between AF and TAM still exists?

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5552 times:



Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 2):
Does the codeshares between AF and TAM still exists?

No, JJ partnered up with LH.


User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

GOL was the likely member in Brazil to be the SkyTeam member, its good to see VARIG are in the deal too!

If they do join, its like Star gets CO and Sky gets VARIG.



seemyseems
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
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Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 4):
GOL was the likely member in Brazil to be the SkyTeam member, its good to see VARIG are in the deal too!

If they do join, its like Star gets CO and Sky gets VARIG.

It seems they will try hard to become SkyTeam member in the near future (i believe in 2010). GOL's CEO today said that they probably will look for a similar partnership with KE and in my view DL will be another one.

GOL will offer AF/KL 13 markets outside of GIG and GRU for their up to 35 weekly flights to Brazil.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5344 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
It seems they will try hard to become SkyTeam member in the near future (i believe in 2010). GOL's CEO today said that they probably will look for a similar partnership with KE and in my view DL will be another one.

GOL will offer AF/KL 13 markets outside of GIG and GRU for their up to 35 weekly flights to Brazil.

Do you think GOL will order long haul aircraft? It would be good seeing them with long haul aircraft.

Are GOL a LCC/LFC?

And does anyone know what will happen to VARIG?



seemyseems
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5309 times:
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Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 6):
Do you think GOL will order long haul aircraft? It would be good seeing them with long haul aircraft.

No, i do not expect a long haul order during the next 3 years. They just had a terrible experience with a fleet of 763's.

Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 6):
Are GOL a LCC/LFC?

They advertise themselves as a LCLF but in fact they are not a LF. Concerning to Cost, i would just say that they moved in a recent past to a fancy rented AA building in one of the most expensive districts of São Paulo. The good think is that they realize is not feasible and moved back to a cheap small office building in CGH.
They have fares closer to TAM and offer now even a Frequent Flyer Program.

Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 6):
And does anyone know what will happen to VARIG?

It's being incorporated to GOL. In fact even Smiles (the name of the Varig's FF program) become part of GOL.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5124 times:

Air France should be the next foreign carrier to make moves similar to TAP's, American's and Delta's: fly nonstop to different destinations in Brazil.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5080 times:
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Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 8):
Air France should be the next foreign carrier to make moves similar to TAP's, American's and Delta's: fly nonstop to different destinations in Brazil

There's no frequencies to do that. AF can fly only 7 more flights. TP can obtain frequencies more easier because of the appeal of being a Portuguese carrier.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Just a question for our Brazilian friends. Why the need to have separate Gol and Varig brands, liveries and identities, if both carriers have a frequent flyer program? Is the only real difference the Varig premium seats in the front of the plane?

Would be good to see Gol-Varig join SkyTeam in the future.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1060 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4875 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 10):
Just a question for our Brazilian friends. Why the need to have separate Gol and Varig brands, liveries and identities, if both carriers have a frequent flyer program? Is the only real difference the Varig premium seats in the front of the plane?

Not really. That's why RG's brand is disappearing (not Gol's as you might expect).

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 10):
Would be good to see Gol-Varig join SkyTeam in the future.

Agree. It would fill a major gap in SkyTeam's network: South America.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4874 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
GOL's CEO today said that they probably will look for a similar partnership with KE and in my view DL will be another one.

Congratulations to GOL. I think GOL slowly will transform its model to become a legacy carrier. GOL will offer important feed traffic in GRU/GIG to SkyTeam.

I know for sure KE and DL are both eager to sign a partnership with GOL. It seems OW will be the alliance left in the cold in Brazil...

Rgs @ NRT


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4857 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
Congratulations to GOL. I think GOL slowly will transform its model to become a legacy carrier. GOL will offer important feed traffic in GRU/GIG to SkyTeam.

I know for sure KE and DL are both eager to sign a partnership with GOL

Well, it will make a lot of sense if G3 would also enter into discussions with AM. AM would definitely have a competitive advantage over MX if it is able to secure a local partner in Brazil. On the other hand, G3 passengers would have the chance to go to MEX and other AM destinations on a single ticket  Smile

Quoting AF086 (Reply 11):
Not really. That's why RG's brand is disappearing (not Gol's as you might expect).

So eventually the only identity will be Gol? So only certain destinations will get business class seats, or will a premium cabin eventually expand to a larger portion of the routemap?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4838 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
Well, it will make a lot of sense if G3 would also enter into discussions with AM. AM would definitely have a competitive advantage over MX if it is able to secure a local partner in Brazil

Hi, Eddie. You are correct, it will make a lot of sense. And in many aspects GOL already offers a service equivalent to legacy carriers. It service level is comparable to European airlines service level inside Europe routes, for example.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
So eventually the only identity will be Gol? So only certain destinations will get business class seats, or will a premium cabin eventually expand to a larger portion of the routemap?

In fact, RG and GOL have unified many operations, including Smiles which is the FF program, online sales of tickets, and check-in counters. RG-operated routes inside South America get premium cabin (Comfort Class). There is not talk of route expansion inside GOL.

Rgs @ NRT


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4793 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
Well, it will make a lot of sense if G3 would also enter into discussions with AM. AM would definitely have a competitive advantage over MX if it is able to secure a local partner in Brazil

Eddie, good point but AM already have a huge advantage over MX flights because it offer both legs with overnight flights (plus the fact it's a daily service).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
In fact, RG and GOL have unified many operations, including Smiles which is the FF program, online sales of tickets, and check-in counters. RG-operated routes inside South America get premium cabin (Comfort Class). There is not talk of route expansion inside GOL

In fact GOL will even reduce their network. SCL is expected to be reduced to a weekend route only and BOG will face some cancellations during the next weeks. In the other hand, TAM just confirmed a second flight to SCL, which also will allow LH customers to board on an international flight out of GIG for connections at GRU

JJ8027* GIG 1615 GRU 1725 1830 SCL 2230 - A32A (A320 with Business Class)
JJ8028** SCL 0800 GRU 1150 1300 GIG 1410 - A32A
* Begins May 15
** Begins May 16



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

I hope it does not take so long time for we see again a RG - AF code-share.
The last time that happened was until late 90's.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
It seems OW will be the alliance left in the cold in Brazil...

That is the interest of Sky Team. Gol is just playing with both alliances.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 11):
Not really. That's why RG's brand is disappearing (not Gol's as you might expect).



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
So eventually the only identity will be Gol?

That issue is being already discussed in the thread Gol Varig: Others Like This Company?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4605 times:
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Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 16):
That is the interest of Sky Team. Gol is just playing with both alliances

Why you mentioned that AwysBSB ? As far as i know GOL has partnerships with CM, UX and now AF/KL, all of them members of Skyteam.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4429 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Why you mentioned that AwysBSB ? As far as i know GOL has partnerships with CM, UX and now AF/KL, all of them members of Skyteam.

I am taking into account their partnership with American, which is the main One World member and the largest US-Brazil operator.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4352 times:
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Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 18):
I am taking into account their partnership with American, which is the main One World member and the largest US-Brazil operator

Ok, but be in mind, AA x G3 partnership is just an interline agreement. AF/KL and UX are for example code-share agreements.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4338 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Ok, but be in mind, AA x G3 partnership is just an interline agreement.

Would G3 start a code-share agreement with DL and keep its interline with AA?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
AF/KL and UX are for example code-share agreements.

By the way, G3 is not selling tickets do MAD from its website and UX is not offering other destinations in Brazil else SSA.

[Edited 2009-04-05 19:39:39]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4177 times:
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Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 20):
By the way, G3 is not selling tickets do MAD from its website and UX is not offering other destinations in Brazil else SSA.

Yes, but they still keep a c/s agreement.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 20):
Would G3 start a code-share agreement with DL and keep its interline with AA?

Yes, it's possible. At this time G3 has interline agreements with both. Even AA have interline agreement with JJ.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

Right Felipe. An AM - RG/G3 agreement would only give AM a bigger edge over MX with respect to the Mexico-Brazil market, and it would give RG/G3 flyers access to a number of additional destinations in Mexico and potentially in the U.S. west coast.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 20):
Would G3 start a code-share agreement with DL and keep its interline with AA?

Why not? Interline agreements between carriers that belong to different alliances are quite common, and are in the best interest of the public. AM for example has interline agreements with carriers as diverse as UA, JJ and QF for example, among many, many others.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4082 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22):
Right Felipe. An AM - RG/G3 agreement would only give AM a bigger edge over MX with respect to the Mexico-Brazil market, and it would give RG/G3 flyers access to a number of additional destinations in Mexico and potentially in the U.S. west coast

Eddie, i see such movements by G3/VRG as a future welcome card to SkyTeam. UX, AF/KL, soon DL, next probably AM and KE.... and soon a member!



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline4EVERVARIG From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4051 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
Eddie, i see such movements by G3/VRG as a future welcome card to SkyTeam. UX, AF/KL, soon DL, next probably AM and KE.... and soon a member

Lipe, the question is... Doesn't an airline need a considerable long haul network to belong to an airline alliance? Wasn't that the first reason why old RG got kicked out of Star Alliance?
And with Gol reducing even more RG's network, how would joining any alliance be feasible at all?


25 EddieDude : I was under the impression that the exit of RG from Star actually had to do with the RG's implosion and the fact that it had to be rescued and restru
26 Ocracoke : See OK. An early member of Sky. Very few long haul routes.
27 LipeGIG : It's not necessary or required to have a long haul network to belong to an airline alliance. There's some examples as CM and Spanair. AF/KL/DL for su
28 Post contains images AwysBSB : Good news for Smiles participants: From May 1st to July 31, Smiles will offer double miles for participants that fly on Air France -- KLM flights. Rul
29 Seemyseems : I like the way they have the SkyTeam logo next to the AF and KL logos! Hopefully they will join SkyTeam. SkyTeam loses CO and gains RG a former Star
30 LipeGIG : Not at this time. They had a very bad experience in 2006/2007 and still have 5-6 B763ER which lessors wont accepted the break on the lease agreements
31 AwysBSB : If they revamped the remaining 763s to operate them on actual premium services to MAD, MIA and JFK, they would have good results.
32 Tonytifao : I agree. Why not use some common sense and add some new comfortable seats, PTVs and fly those birds to MIA or JFK?
33 LipeGIG : If they decide to update the 763 with PTVs and nice (and of course comfortable) seats for C, they should first use them to recover BOG and CCS. Later
34 AwysBSB : 738s are fine, the problem is the poor G3's service. The wrong move is IB maintains so many frequencies to GRU. If RG resumed its service to MAD, it
35 LipeGIG : But the 738 is far from being comfortable for such a long trip. And they can't have two different planes... so the 763 become an interesting choice.
36 Seemyseems : That would be very ideal, LAN did an excellant job with their B763's.
37 LipeGIG : Agree, the 763 it's a very nice plane for AM, MX, AV, CO, AC, for example, in the Americas also. An updated 763 is a nice product and people like it.
38 DELTA7478 : I just hope that these is a sing that there moving towards SkyTeam, Doeas anybosy know if GOL will change their name to just VARIG and update there ai
39 LipeGIG : Don't expect that. GOL will use Gol brand. VARIG probably will disappear.
40 Seemyseems : That is a shame, does that mean GOL will become the national carrier? Me too! Seeing GOL in SkyTeam would be great, and maybe more south American mem
41 Hardiwv : I got an email today from Flying Blue stating the FB pax will get double award miles from May until July in any GOL/Varig operated flight. Rgs,
42 LipeGIG : In fact, the national (largest) carrier today is TAM with around 49% of the market. Gol comes second with around 39%
43 Seemyseems : Oh yes there is a thread about this. So is JJ maybe Brazil's national airline? I like TAM, they have a very good fleet, a good coverage of Brazil, th
44 LipeGIG : TAM probably could be considered as Brazilian Flag Carrier. They in fact already fly daily to MAD. Talking about LIS, they code-share with TP from mo
45 Hardiwv : TAM received 7 frequencies to operate flights to Portugal, as decision by ANAC and official request by TAM. I think we could perhaps consider TAM to
46 LipeGIG : In fact Hardi, TAM received just the designation because Portugal-Brazil agreement allows only one carrier. TAM just replaced Varig. You probably mea
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