Isn't the lounge between F and C class? Do they move C class seats away from the end of that class to the lounge space to put new Y seats in the end of the C class section? And why 44? In a 2-4-2 layout that would be 5.5 rows of seats.
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9714 times:
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 2): Is there even a point for them to do this kind of seat re-arrangements? Aren't the A346's leaving the fleet i 2010, anyway?
It could be being done to make the aircraft more attractive to a future buyer as there aren't that many airlines that are going to want onboard lounges. Plus they might as well try and make a few more $$$ out of the aircraft before retirement
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9569 times:
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 3): Quoting LH4116 (Reply 2):
Is there even a point for them to do this kind of seat re-arrangements? Aren't the A346's leaving the fleet i 2010, anyway?
It could be being done to make the aircraft more attractive to a future buyer as there aren't that many airlines that are going to want onboard lounges. Plus they might as well try and make a few more $$$ out of the aircraft before retirement
Depends on much work the change takes. Planes will lose some operating time for this. However, is it certain they will leave in 2010? That may have been the original plan, but in the current economic climate they might not get a good sum for them and might have problems financing whatever they need to replace them.
IIRC they were supposed to go to Orynx leasing. But who could lease them? I read that UX was looking for 2 A346 for flights to Mexico.
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6190 posts, RR: 79 Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9182 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 4): However, is it certain they will leave in 2010? That may have been the original plan, but in the current economic climate they might not get a good sum for them and might have problems financing whatever they need to replace them.
Haven't heard of a deadline recently, but I guess the planes' value is indeed an important aspect. Here's what QR's CEO has said only a few weeks ago:
"If I could, I would throw them away. These planes are not efficient at all."
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8438 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 5): Haven't heard of a deadline recently, but I guess the planes' value is indeed an important aspect. Here's what QR's CEO has said only a few weeks ago:
"If I could, I would throw them away. These planes are not efficient at all."
Maybe LH should give QR a little development aid. It seems they know how to use them efficiently.
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6190 posts, RR: 79 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8170 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 6): Maybe LH should give QR a little development aid. It seems they know how to use them efficiently.
From QR's point of view, with both the A346 and the 77W in the fleet, it would make sense to get rid of the less fuel efficient aircraft. And apart from that, eliminating one type always saves costs. However, it is still nonsense to claim that the A346 is "not efficient at all".
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7195 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 7):
From QR's point of view, with both the A346 and the 77W in the fleet, it would make sense to get rid of the less fuel efficient aircraft. And apart from that, eliminating one type always saves costs. However, it is still nonsense to claim that the A346 is "not efficient at all".
Regardless of what the B marketing department claims, it is non-sense to have a sub-fleet of 4 of a type, when you 17 of its direct competitor coming. The A346 certainly has the advantage of commonality with the rest of QR's Airbus fleet, although the A330s do have GE engines. As pointed out in that great, but unfortunately deleted post, there is certainly some search for attention in Al Baker's statement. If he had a critical press and a critical owner, he would not talk like that about planes he ordered himself. Airbus will forgive him his comments, as he has at least 85 of their wide-bodies on order.
AF-A319 From France, joined Oct 1999, 603 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6978 times:
The idea was crazy in the first place. Al Baker should turn down his arrogance and acknowledge that they made a mistake by implementing this feature without any customer tests. Rant over!
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4820 times:
Too bad, I wanted to try it on the IAD-DOH route (before they switched to 77Ws), their A346s looked delicious. I can't see them fitting 44 seats in that much space though, it looks like about the length of 3 rows of Y to me?
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6190 posts, RR: 79 Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4605 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 10): The A346 certainly has the advantage of commonality with the rest of QR's Airbus fleet, although the A330s do have GE engines.
Commonality is an important aspect - but it's very likely that it's still more expensive to have the A346 (with its RR engines) in the fleet than standardizing on the A330/777 combo.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16819 posts, RR: 57 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4596 times:
Quoting AF-A319 (Reply 11): The idea was crazy in the first place. Al Baker should turn down his arrogance and acknowledge that they made a mistake by implementing this feature without any customer tests. Rant over!
I've always wondered if space-users like this make more revenue than they cost. If VA has it, why doesn't BA?
Flying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2360 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3017 times:
You don't have to be strong and expert in maths to acknowledge the difference between a "lounge" and 44 pax seats on an aircraft like the A346. An aircraft that is already not easy economics wise in QR's case...
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2734 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 14): Commonality is an important aspect - but it's very likely that it's still more expensive to have the A346 (with its RR engines) in the fleet than standardizing on the A330/777 combo.
Considering their current situation, yes. However, had their A330s RR engines (the most sold on this type it seems), and had they ordered A345/346 instead of 777NG, they might actually be better off. However, when an airline gets to having 100-200 planes, they are wise to use them from both A and B. 777NG is also a nice ground breaker for the 787, so QR was not having to rely solely on the A350, of which they were actually a customer before the XWB-change.
Quoting Fly-K (Reply 19): With just 266 seats in the 346, the aircraft is certainly not efficient for QR...
That might be the best layout in financial terms, if they can sell the F and C seats at the right price.
Tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1176 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2575 times:
Qatar Airways works in a very strange way, its CEO is all about pomp and ceremony and one upmanship. He ordered the A340-600s despite there being more efficient aircraft available at the time just because he could claim to be the first to have the IGW version. Despite knowing that they 777's would be arriving he still insisted on having the lounge installed for First just to make a point about being a 5 star airline. Now just two years on he is slating Airbus and the A340 and now removing the lounge as if he was forced into having both!
Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2367 times:
I think if the downturn continues and has legs, we will see First Class sections reduced and more economy seats and seat sales to fill planes. The idea of pay bars for economy may generate enough cash to warrant the space. We will see once someone actually tries it and how popular they are. With more and more executives being bumped down to economy from first/business due to restrictions on travel budgets, they may compensate themselves by imbibing more.
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I can't see them fitting 44 seats in that much space though, it looks like about the length of 3 rows of Y to me? 
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