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Diversions And Flight Numbers  
User currently offlineAFKL From Netherlands, joined Feb 2008, 219 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

When and if an aircaft diverts from it's original destination as a result of a medical emergency, weather, or mechanical issue, and eventually departs again from the diversion airport to continue it's flight to the original destination, is the original flight number (e.g. XX001) kept, or does it have to be changed?

Thanks!


ALLARD.


ALLARD. First flight: KLM DC-10, LLW - AMS.
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

It depends... if another plane (using the scheduled flight number, e.g. for a continuation leg) will be in the air at the same time, the diversion flight would likely be assigned a new flight number.

In other words, you can't have, say, original flight 8443 and previously scheduled subsequent flight 8443 in the air at the same time without causing massive confusion.



DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 2268 times:



Quoting DingDong (Reply 1):
if another plane (using the scheduled flight number, e.g. for a continuation leg) will be in the air at the same time, the diversion flight would likely be assigned a new flight number.

At my airline, we call this a "Stub Amend". Typically, we will just take the last 2 numbers of the original flight number and add a letter. For the letter, I personally use the Captain's last initial. For example, if flight 123 diverts and will become a callsign conflict...and the captain's last name is Johnson...the ATC flight number would become "23J".

Even without a divert, this is something we have to watch out for if, for a myriad of operational reasons, a "through flight" has to be "broken-up" onto separate aircraft.


User currently offlineBochora From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2008, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

They might sometimes stick an "A" on the end or indeed any letter.

User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Does this apply if the original flight is simply in the air, and not necessarily diverted, when the second leg is scheduled to depart? Say, for example, that flight 123 is flying LAX-DTW, is delayed a couple hours, and then hits strong headwinds on its flight. It doesn't have to divert, but it's path is slowed and flight time increased. Meanwhile, its continuation, flight 123 from DTW-LGA, is scheduled for an on-time departure with a different aircraft, and no connecting passengers (this is a hypothetical, remember). What would happen, if anything?


Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 2216 times:

Soxfan...
See the last paragraph of my post above.

Also, Go Sox!


User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 2216 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4):
Does this apply if the original flight is simply in the air, and not necessarily diverted, when the second leg is scheduled to depart? Say, for example, that flight 123 is flying LAX-DTW, is delayed a couple hours, and then hits strong headwinds on its flight. It doesn't have to divert, but it's path is slowed and flight time increased. Meanwhile, its continuation, flight 123 from DTW-LGA, is scheduled for an on-time departure with a different aircraft, and no connecting passengers (this is a hypothetical, remember). What would happen, if anything?

In that situation, the original (delayed) flight would be renumbered, according to:

Quoting JayDub (Reply 2):
Even without a divert, this is something we have to watch out for if, for a myriad of operational reasons, a "through flight" has to be "broken-up" onto separate aircraft.

 Smile

That's what he meant by '...for a myriad of operational reasons', BTW.

For example, flight 8443 FRA-IAD might be a B772 then 8443 IAD-SAN might be a A319. So, two different aircraft. Obviously, you can only have one 8443 'in the system' at one time.

So if the FRA-IAD 8443 is going to overlap with the IAD-SAN 8443 due to FRA-IAD delay or other operational issues, the FRA-IAD 8443 is going to be renumbered, while IAD-SAN 8443 keeps its number.

P.S. Go, Sox!



DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineBochora From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2008, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 2209 times:



Quoting JayDub (Reply 2):


Quoting DingDong (Reply 1):
if another plane (using the scheduled flight number, e.g. for a continuation leg) will be in the air at the same time, the diversion flight would likely be assigned a new flight number.

At my airline, we call this a "Stub Amend". Typically, we will just take the last 2 numbers of the original flight number and add a letter. For the letter, I personally use the Captain's last initial. For example, if flight 123 diverts and will become a callsign conflict...and the captain's last name is Johnson...the ATC flight number would become "23J".

Even without a divert, this is something we have to watch out for if, for a myriad of operational reasons, a "through flight" has to be "broken-up" onto separate aircraft.

Sorry, we posted at the same time.


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 2191 times:



Quoting Bochora (Reply 7):
Sorry, we posted at the same time.

It happens, compadre...I think anything added when it comes to the operational end of things is typically good info.


User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 2135 times:



Quoting DingDong (Reply 6):
the FRA-IAD 8443 is going to be renumbered, while IAD-SAN 8443 keeps its number.

Got it. Thanks! I'm sure this is probably easier for the IAD-SAN passengers as well, who might get confused if they see their flight number magically changed in the airport.



Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2080 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 9):
Got it. Thanks! I'm sure this is probably easier for the IAD-SAN passengers as well, who might get confused if they see their flight number magically changed in the airport.

Actually, these flight number changes are strictly on the ATC callsign side of things. There would be no change to a flight number in the eyes of the passengers.

I'm tracking a flight right now that is marketed as flight 4820...but it's callsign is 46U. This was likely done well in advance at the request of ATC due to similar sounding callsigns departing the hub at the same time.


User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2033 times:



Quoting JayDub (Reply 10):

Actually, these flight number changes are strictly on the ATC callsign side of things.

Shows how much I know apart from being a passenger. At least now I'm a bit more informed when I listen to UA's channel 9. Thanks  Smile



Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1982 times:



Quoting JayDub (Reply 10):
Actually, these flight number changes are strictly on the ATC callsign side of things. There would be no change to a flight number in the eyes of the passengers.

Bingo!

Most diversions will carry the same flight number from the alternate airport back to the intended destination airport, i.e. Flight 123 AAA-BBB that diverts to XXX will still be Flight 123 XXX-BBB. If BBB is a hub, or someplace where there was a scheduled crewchange, and there was another aircraft available, both could utilized to operate BBB-CCC (as a different flight number, transparent to the pax) on schedule, while Flight 123 AAA-BBB was still on the ground at XXX. That's to avoid having two flights with the same ATC callsign in the air at the same time.


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

OPNL...you always put things alot more eloquently than I.

Hope MDW is hanging in there for you today...


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1938 times:



Quoting JayDub (Reply 13):

OPNL...you always put things alot more eloquently than I.

Hope MDW is hanging in there for you today...

Thanks... Been out sick for the last couple of days, so I managed to miss out on all the fun.. Dang!  Wink


User currently offlineAFKL From Netherlands, joined Feb 2008, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

Thanks everyone for clarifying this for me!  Smile
That's precisely why I love a.net, always people willing to help out with a question!


ALLARD.



ALLARD. First flight: KLM DC-10, LLW - AMS.
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