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Alaska Airlines Announces BLI - LAS  
User currently offlinePitintl From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Alaska Airlines announced the return of mainline service to Bellingham, WA with 3x weekly service to Las Vegas, starting on June 25, 2009 using Boeing 737-700 aircraft.

http://www.alaskasworld.com/newsroom.../asfeatures/AS_20090408_093133.asp

Clearly a stab against Allegiant Air, but a great move at that!


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62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7357 times:
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Quoting Pitintl (Thread starter):
Clearly a stab against Allegiant Air, but a great move at that!

Clearly! There must be a fairly lucrative market on the BLI-LAS route to attract Alaska's attention. Perhaps there will be enough of a market on this route to support both carriers.

Perhaps other routes from BLI will open for AS like LAX.


User currently offlinePitintl From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7297 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
There must be a fairly lucrative market on the BLI-LAS route to attract Alaska's attention. Perhaps there will be enough of a market on this route to support both carriers.

Perhaps other routes from BLI will open for AS like LAX.

The market area includes a large part of Southwestern Canada, including the Vancouver, BC Metro area. Most of Allegiant's market is from this area, and time and time again, they have shown that there is ample market apart from the local traffic.

If you look at Allegiant's cities along the border, they have not only opened a new market but have exponentially grown it. Take a look at cities like Bellingham, Great Falls, Duluth and Plattsburgh. These markets can support multiple weekly trips to world class leisure destinations. It just shows that a market exists for a price.

On the other hand, if you were given the option of an airline where you had to pay for all services and one where they were offering the same price but with more services included, the option is a no-brainer. I think Alaska will do well with this. Not to mention, also having a great frequent flyer program will help too!



Fly On Trusted Wings - Fly Surinam Airways
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7148 times:

What days does Allegiant operate now? Will AS operate opposite days, or same?

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7042 times:
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Quoting Toltommy (Reply 3):
What days does Allegiant operate now? Will AS operate opposite days, or same?

G4 operates the BLI-LAS daily (not too many of those).


User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

I predict AS will only stay in the market long enough to try and force Allegiant out, and then they will also leave. This is an old NW tactic.

User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6912 times:



Quoting Junction (Reply 5):

Allegiant wont leave, BLI is a big market for them, I think AS is just trying to steal a little bit of the market share, maybe even keep another airline from entering.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6842 times:



Quoting Junction (Reply 5):
I predict AS will only stay in the market long enough to try and force Allegiant out, and then they will also leave. This is an old NW tactic.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 6):
Allegiant wont leave, BLI is a big market for them,

ALGT beat NW in a bunch of Midwest markets when they went head2head. ALGT will do better than AS because of the much superior tour product, but ALGT doesn't waste money in p#%%ing contests like the other airlines so who knows.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6831 times:



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 6):
Allegiant wont leave, BLI is a big market for them, I think AS is just trying to steal a little bit of the market share, maybe even keep another airline from entering.



Quoting Junction (Reply 5):
I predict AS will only stay in the market long enough to try and force Allegiant out, and then they will also leave. This is an old NW tactic.

It's hard to say what will happen. G4 proved that a market existed so in some ways it's like AS got free market research to be able to determine they could actually make the service work as well.

The reason I'm hesitant to say AS is there to run G4 out is that there will only be 3x weekly service compared to G4 who on some days has 3x daily service. If AS wanted to run them out of the market they would at least match every flight offering G4 had to force customers to choose between the two carriers.

This looks like a 2 birds with one stone scenario. This is a way to slightly increase aircraft utilization on some airplanes as well as dip the toes in the water to see the kind of response they'll get from the public as well as G4 and then develop a strategy from there.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Perhaps AS are concerned about G4 taking some of their SEA passengers? By launching this service they are warning G4 that they won't let them cream off significant numbers of SEA passengers at BLI. A niche operation is one thing, but it's growing a bit beyond a niche now. So maybe a tactical warning by AS to try and 'scare' G4 from expanding too much more?


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User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6759 times:
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Quoting Humberside (Reply 9):
Perhaps AS are concerned about G4 taking some of their SEA passengers? By launching this service they are warning G4 that they won't let them cream off significant numbers of SEA passengers at BLI. A niche operation is one thing, but it's growing a bit beyond a niche now. So maybe a tactical warning by AS to try and 'scare' G4 from expanding too much more?

I'm sure G4 is stealing some of the SEA passengers, especially from Snohomish County and northward.

I don't think AS is starting to service purely to scare G4 from further expansion. G4 will expand BLI when the opportunity arises. Like Hatbutton suggested, it could be that AS realizes that the BLI and SW BC market is a viable market and is willing to apply some limited resources to test out the service.

I'm sure BLI is elated to find out that they're getting a second mainline service.

Afterall, G4 has all the intentions on flying PAE-LAS (and maybe others) and that will have a much larger impact on the stealing SEA passengers to LAS.


User currently offlineQxflyingcoug From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6673 times:

I think this is pretty cool for AS and BLI, but find it kind of odd that other Washington cities like Spokane can't support AS flights to anywhere but SEA.


--GO COUGS--
User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6672 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 3):
What days does Allegiant operate now? Will AS operate opposite days, or same?

G4 has....
BLI-LAS Daily
BLI-LAS 1457
BLI-LAS 1457
BLI-PSP 6
BLI-PHX 36
BLI-RNO 15
BLI-SAN 246
BLI-SFO 15
BLI-LAX 157 (coming soon)

I think it's a little too late for AS in BLI. I think they should focus on PAE before G4 crushes them there as well.



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineAlexInWa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6651 times:



Quoting Qxflyingcoug (Reply 11):
I think this is pretty cool for AS and BLI, but find it kind of odd that other Washington cities like Spokane can't support AS flights to anywhere but SEA.

GEG could support LAS, LAX, SFO, just to name a few. AS had alot of GEG service last summer, but I think the economy killed off those routes.

GEG is very under-served, just as PSC and YKM. At least PSC is getting a new PSC-MSP flight. I think that will be a huge success.



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6605 times:



Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 12):
I think it's a little too late for AS in BLI. I think they should focus on PAE before G4 crushes them there as well.

Why? AS offers better amenities all around than G4. Is it not possible that there's enough demand for them both? I'm sure there are some higher level pax that would rather fly in First or not have to pay for extra services and will welcome the AS service.

What makes you think that G4 is crushing AS as well? If they start serving a ton of cities out of BLI that AS flies to then maybe. But as of right now it looks like most of the pax coming out of BLI are coming from Canada and AS/QX has limited service out of YVR as it is so these don't seem to be all pax making the switch from AS.

And if G4 is allowed to ramp up at PAE then you can gaurantee that the likes of AS and WN will force their way in as well. If WN gets into PAE then I would suspect G4 should be more worried about them then AS would need to be worried about G4.


User currently offlineSkyharborshome From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 273 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6577 times:



Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 12):
BLI-PHX 36

Pretty sure you mean BLI-IWA (Phoenix-Mesa Gateway)



Fly CHD!
User currently offlineAlexInWa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6540 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 14):
What makes you think that G4 is crushing AS as well? If they start serving a ton of cities out of BLI that AS flies to then maybe. But as of right now it looks like most of the pax coming out of BLI are coming from Canada and AS/QX has limited service out of YVR as it is so these don't seem to be all pax making the switch from AS.

And if G4 is allowed to ramp up at PAE then you can gaurantee that the likes of AS and WN will force their way in as well. If WN gets into PAE then I would suspect G4 should be more worried about them then AS would need to be worried about G4.

IMHO AS made the mistake of NOT taking advantage of BLI before G4 did.

G4 is taking advantage of the Canada traffic and over the last few months AS has dropped alot of service in/out of YVR. I can't see how BLI-LAS would be cheaper than YVR-LAS (which was also dropped) for AS. So I think AS is playing catch up.

WN in PAE would be VERY interesting. Can't imagine where they would fly other than GEG or PDX from PAE. PAE and BLI seem to be great markets for a 70-100 seat A/C.



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6483 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 7):
ALGT beat NW in a bunch of Midwest markets when they went head2head.

They did? Which ones are you thinking of?

I know G4 left MSN-LAS once NW announced that they were going to run it, and IIRC did the same in a few other markets.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6456 times:



Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 16):
IMHO AS made the mistake of NOT taking advantage of BLI before G4 did.

G4 is taking advantage of the Canada traffic and over the last few months AS has dropped alot of service in/out of YVR. I can't see how BLI-LAS would be cheaper than YVR-LAS (which was also dropped) for AS. So I think AS is playing catch up.

True. Possibly though AS didn't have the model to test the BLI market and like I said, G4 did all the research for them to come in now and offer service. YVR traffic may have fallen because of what others have said in regards to Canadian taxes making some flights prohibitive. So reduced demand out of YVR isn't necessarily an indicator that BC residents wanted to stop flying...BLI may have just been the perfect alternative.

AS probably didn't want to spend money investing in seeing if BLI would work when other markets like HI would have much higher yields and were more of a sure bet. Now that it has shown it could work, I don't know if coming in now is necessarily considered too late to enter the game. If the price is right, and the FF miles are there, pax could shift from G4's a-la-carte style.

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 16):
WN in PAE would be VERY interesting. Can't imagine where they would fly other than GEG or PDX from PAE. PAE and BLI seem to be great markets for a 70-100 seat A/C.

If BLI was such a gold mine then why didn't WN move in sooner? BLI after all is their kind of market.

I have to disagree though about WN only flying to GEG/PDX from PAE. They would consider it SEA #2 and fly to a heck of a lot more places than within the Northwest.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5603 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6434 times:

I personally think AS is making a move in BLI as a pre-emptive shot at G4 regarding PAE service. QX and G4 are expecting to both jump into PAE and I think AS is just trying to level the playing field a bit right now. (I do not think WN has any interest in PAE or BLI; neither is the sort of market they are looking at these days... Can you say DEN, IAD, SFO, LGA, MSP, maybe ATL?)

Down here in SAN, we have seen AS/QX do this sort of thing many times -- jump into the pool after the other kids are already in, then try to make the others leave. Then, when the fuss is over, or the pool is empty, AS quietly climbs out and heads for somebody else's pool.

When comparing G4's schedule with that proposed by AS, it doesn't seem like much of a battle, so, as I opened this post with, it might just be more of a "watch us" signal to G4...

bb


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6362 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
When comparing G4's schedule with that proposed by AS, it doesn't seem like much of a battle, so, as I opened this post with, it might just be more of a "watch us" signal to G4...

Is this the first "warning shot" that anyone has fired at Allegiant?

I find it a bit depressing. I suppose I understand why airlines have snit fits when others invade "their territory", but in this case it feels like an overload of testosterone and sometimes the laws of unintended consequences apply.

I guess the question is - given Allegiant's big CASM advantage, can Alaska make money on the route? I imagine Allegiant will depress yields?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6311 times:



Quoting Pitintl (Thread starter):
Clearly a stab against Allegiant Air, but a great move at that!

Is this the first time an airline has taken action against G4 other than NW? I remember when NW did in places like FSD, DSM, Where else? Didnt last long


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6296 times:
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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
I remember when NW did in places like FSD, DSM, Where else? Didnt last long

You're right, I'd forgotten that. Thanks.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6241 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
I find it a bit depressing. I suppose I understand why airlines have snit fits when others invade "their territory", but in this case it feels like an overload of testosterone and sometimes the laws of unintended consequences apply.

I don't see why the practice of defending your turf is met with such opposition. AS is not dumping 19x weekly service on this route like G4 offers. 3x weekly is hardly testosterone charged and nowhere has AS done anything to show it is throwing a fit over G4 service. If you owned a business and someone had the potential to take away your customers (and to some extent may already have) what would you do? Just put your hands up and fold?

It's possible AS never expected a market like this to work prior to G4. Just because G4 proved it could work means all of a sudden they have a patent on it and nobody else is allowed to fly the same route?

Since BLI is such a little hub for G4, why is it necessarily construed as AS throwing a fit? Logically, wouldn't AS be the one coming in to increase competition rather than allow G4 to have a monopoly on the market? Not everyone that connects out of BLI through SEA is going to LAS so while AS may be making a point in some ways to G4, G4 can't really be siphoning off pax on AS/QX like it's going out of style when AS is only entering one market that G4 serves.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6210 times:
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Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 23):
I don't see why the practice of defending your turf is met with such opposition.

It is a difference in attitude. Allegiant's traffic is largely low-yield, at least by Alaska's standards. It works for Allegiant because of their low CASM.

Because of that revenue/cost disparity, Alaska is likely to lose money on the route, or not make very much, and is this the best use of an Alaska aircraft?

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 23):
Since BLI is such a little hub for G4, why is it necessarily construed as AS throwing a fit?

Who said "throwing a fit"?

I find it depressing, is all. I'd rather see Alaska revenue driven than market share driven, as I would with a number of airlines.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 AlexInWa : Is the economy or the flying public that different than 20 years ago? PSA made BLI, PSC, and YKM work for years and years. Attitude,......you said it.
26 Hatbutton : You mentioned carriers that have a snit fit. When you look at the numbers, G4's block hourly operating costs on their MD-83 are actually slightly hig
27 Mariner : CASM is rather more than aircraft operating costs. Presently, Allegiant's system wide CASM (ex-fuel) is at 4.92 cents. I believe Alaska's (ex-fuel) f
28 Siromega : I was just happy to hear that an airline was adding flights to LAS instead of removing them. Please, we're broke, come to town and gamble!
29 ASMD11 : Part of the reason why there aren't flights from GEG to anywhere but SEA is because there are 17 flights at day to SEA on AS/QX alone, and that, "pas
30 Chugach : Interesting for sure, but I see it less as a strike against Allegiant and more AS dipping its toes in the water to see if its frequent flier base in N
31 Wedgetail737 : G4 specializes in "Sunny" destinations. Unfortunately, ANC is not considered as a "sunny" destination.
32 Hatbutton : Well like I said, I think a lot of it contributes to the risk involved with trying out an untested market. When your costs and strategy are like G4,
33 Nwaesc : FAR, MSN, FSD, DSM, FNT (I think???), GRR (I think???)...
34 Iowaman : I believe you got them all. IIRC FL ran FNT-LAS for a while as well, and HP ran DSM-LAS a couple years before with a pink eye as I called it (3am arr
35 Mariner : They could have done it with Horizon and 'm sure no one would have turned a hair, beyond the general Monday morning quarterbacking that happens on a.
36 Warszawa : Yes they did, flew FL FNT-LAS myself twice, first back in February 06 and again November 2007. In fact FL flew the route for a period during 06, whic
37 YXXMIKE : I think if AS really wanted to drive a market out of BLI its to carve their own niche. LAS is a good market for sure but its well served by G4 already
38 MtnWest1979 : I would think otherwise. Served by SkyWest, United, Northwest, Alaska, Horizon , Southwest, US Airways and Frontier to SEA PDX LAS DEN SLC PHX BOI MS
39 Chugach : Yeah, not a "sunny" destination, but a damn big leisure market in the summer and a ton of local traffic to Washington state. SY also specializes in "
40 Iowaman : BLI-ANC is a very interesting and outside of the box way of thinking IMO, but I wouldn't expect it to happen. There are many other opportunities in t
41 Jbrusnak : I just returned from Vegas tonight on a G4 flight to BLI. The last couple times I have traveled to Vegas I have used G4 because BLI is just so much cl
42 EA CO AS : No, GEG is under-demanded. When demand increases, so will service. Better enjoy 'em while you can... Why cannibalize YVR-LAX and SEA-LAX by throwing
43 Wedgetail737 : That's why I think BLI-LAX would do well. Passengers could connect to a number of sunny destinations from FLG to CUN year-round. The only route they
44 Enilria : G4 announced they would fly LAS-FAR starting Nov05. NW then announced LAS-DSM/FAR/FSD/GRR/MSN also starting Nov05 in a very Reno Air-esque move. All
45 Humberside : IIRC G4 started RFD around that time. Can't remember if RFD was a direct replacement for MSN or not. If not having a RFD operation could well have im
46 NWAESC : It's been a long time since I flew through BLI... Is the mural with all of the "old" carriers still on the wall in the terminal? Also, who handles G4
47 Wedgetail737 : Now that G4 has two dedicated Maddogs at BLI, I believe G4 has their own ground crew up there.
48 EA CO AS : Using that logic, should AS "supplement" the market even further with BLI-LGB, BLI-SNA, BLI-BUR, etc? How about EAT-LAX too? I think you get my point
49 Rjnut : after having graduated from WWU IN "81 , i would never have dreamt having this conversation, when all that existed in my day was a few Islanders and C
50 Post contains links FATFlyer : I was a road warrior this week and did not have time to look at the boards. So I'm just getting caught back up with posts. Personally I think there ar
51 Hatbutton : Yeah now they responded...but unless you get a $28 ticket, you might be better off going with AS after fees and if you want to check bags. I was just
52 FATFlyer : If demand supported and there was no competition then of course they would raise prices to what they felt the market would bear. In terms of AS thoug
53 Pictues : BLI-LAS is Cheaper for PAX flying due to not having to pay the Immigration and other taxes that are put on the fare from YVR-LAS.
54 SANFan : G4 has been flying BLI-SAN and BLI-OAK since last summer; BLI-LAX starts in a month or 2. I will be watching: once AS/QX starts BLI-LAX/OAK/SFO and/or
55 FATFlyer : I thought I'd see what the fares were like today. I took a look at July since Alaska starts in June. Alaska is showing $59 one-way on the 3 days they
56 Hatbutton : How would G4 know how much of an impact after only a few days? The service is still over 2 months away so it is hard to say. Even though it's 3x week
57 FATFlyer : Yes it is over 2 months away. But airlines typically match or cut fares as soon as a competitor announces on a route, right? Why didn't Allegiant mat
58 Hatbutton : Yeah I agree. I just didn't know if G4 had some way of finding out. They probably are willing to wait it out a little and see what really happens bef
59 FATFlyer : Allegiant is very numbers oriented. Maury Gallagher was the finance guy at ValuJet and WestAir alongside Tim Flynn. Plus Allegiant originally was sta
60 Vincewy : FYI, G8 is showing LAS-BLI $58 one way right now ($119 just 48 hours ago) for 3 weeks after Memorial weekend. Somehow I feel AS should add those frequ
61 Wedgetail737 : I think you mean G4.
62 Vincewy : G4 - Sorry, my mistake (too late to correct).
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