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AS' Milk Run  
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2964 posts, RR: 16
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6296 times:

Hi!

I was wondering if somebody can shed some light into the economics of this route and als where to book it, since it does not be be offered on AS' website (at least in a basic search).
Also, where does the name come from?

Thanks!


Where have all the tri-jets gone...
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

For booking... you need to get a little fancy. Wink

Go to the main Alaska Airlines website. Then click on 'Multi-City' link.

Then specify three flights in this order like this. As an example:

Seattle-Juneau -- pick AS 65 with 3 stops
Juneau-Anchorage -- pick AS 65 with 0 stops
Anchorage-Seattle -- pick any flight you like

The first two flights are the milk run flights which goes SEA-KTN-WRG-PSG-JNU-ANC on AS 65. (The reverse would be done on AS 64.)

AS 65 departs SEA at 6:45am Pacific time and arrives in ANC at 2:14pm Alaska time (one hour behind Pacific). I'm guessing there's about 45 minutes between each stop? The AS 65 milk run costs about USD $600 for a value fare. First class is about USD $250 more -- again, for the AS 65 run, not including the return trip fare.

If you really wanted to, you could do the milk run AND a direct nonstop return flight in a single day. Takes about 12 hours total. Otherwise, if you also want to stay in Alaska for a while, you obviously can do the milk run on one day and return on another day.

The other two well-known milk run flight pairs are from what I recall:

AS 61 ANC-CDV-YAK-JNU-SEA
AS 66 SEA-JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC

AS 62 ANC-JNU-SIT-KTN-SEA
AS 67 SEA-KTN-SIT-JNU-ANC

If you try one of the milk runs, take lots of photos, enjoy the flying, and post 'em and the TR in the TR forum! Smile



DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6055 times:



Quoting Ushermittwoch (Thread starter):
where does the name come from?

I believe the name is a reference to the earlier practice of collecting milk from farms via trains stopping at each farm along the line. Hence multi stop flights are a milk run.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

The milk run is an interesting one-time experience, but be aware you're going to pay double for the privilege of flying the full route - as you've already discovered, AS doesn't allow booking it directly from ANC to SEA, and in fact, the fare will be broken in JNU, so you'll pay a SEA-JNU fare and a JNU-ANC fare. On the other hand, for a plane/airline nut, the experience of landing in all the SE airports is worth it.

Also, make sure you check your dates, the PSG airport is going to be closed for a period this summer, while the runway is resurfaced, so that stop will be skipped.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlinePitintl From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5986 times:



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 3):
Also, make sure you check your dates, the PSG airport is going to be closed for a period this summer, while the runway is resurfaced, so that stop will be skipped.

PSG has been closed now since March 23, when we suspended service to the airport for runway resurfacing. We have been servicing PSG passengers through WRG. AS 65 from there the flight continues on straight to JNU and ANC. Service will return back to PSG on April 21, so after that, rest assured, the PSG stop will be back on the milkrun schedule.

I would say it's totally worth doing the milk runs as the scenery is spectacular! The routing I would take is AS 65 from SEA to KTN, WRG, PSG, JNU and ANC, then switching and taking AS 66 from ANC to CDV, YAK, JNU and back to SEA. It's a great way to spend a Saturday.



Fly On Trusted Wings - Fly Surinam Airways
User currently offlinePHXiahSZXjnu From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5818 times:

If you are going to do it, hope the weather was nice, somehow I got on what I coin the ubber milk run ( SEA - KTN - WRG - PSG - JNU ) flying back from BRU, and sadly that day JNU was snowed in, and frankly being stuck in PSG for four or five hours waiting on weather is not the most thrilling experience.


James
User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5764 times:

Ive done all 3 milk runs and they are all great though the ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN-SEA was my favorite. Make sure you get off at each town too, they say you cant but I always did. Only sad part is that you wont get to do it on a 737-200.

User currently offlinePitintl From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5671 times:



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 6):
Ive done all 3 milk runs and they are all great though the ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN-SEA was my favorite. Make sure you get off at each town too, they say you cant but I always did. Only sad part is that you wont get to do it on a 737-200.

I agree! I've done them myself and have been lucky enough to get partly to mostly sunny days when I've flown these.

My favorite is the ANC-CDV-YAK-JNU-ANC run as you get to see the entire Chugach Mountain range, including Mt. St. Elias on approach to YAK. Also on approach to JNU, you over fly Glacier Bay / Gustavus as well as Mendenhall Glacier on finals to JNU. It's an amazing route.

Similarly, the SEA-KTN-WRG-PSG-JNU-ANC run has plenty of great scenery. I even saw whales in the Inside Passage on approach to WRG! It was great!

Well worth the time. If you do the routing I stated, you leave at 6:45am from SEA and can be back at 11:30pm the same day!

Also, I agree. Get of in each city and just soak in the ambiance of each unique place. PSG was one of those places I wished I could stay longer. It just had a nice small town feel to it!



Fly On Trusted Wings - Fly Surinam Airways
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

When the 732 combi was used for the milk run they used the rear stairs to disembark and embark pax in WRG and PSG. The 732 are no longer in the fleet I not sure if the 400 have rear stairs or if they are used. I would think yes.

If you fly and are allowed to disembark be weiry of the departure time. The time table may show 45 minutes in WRG, PSG and KTN. On the occasion I flew the milk run they were in and out of those cities in less than a half hour. The FA did encourage thru pax to stay on the aircraft. The ambiance reminded me of the railroad whistle-stops.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5597 times:
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I, too, have done SEA-KTN-WRG-PSG-JNU-ANC (on 732) and SEA-JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC (on 734).
Got to get off and wander around at each except for KTN. Flight arrived late there. Was in November for flt 65 and it was totally clear and cool. Mid 30s at each stop. We had breakfast to KTN and lunch to ANC. Very nice experience.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5508 times:



Quoting DingDong (Reply 1):
AS 65 milk run costs about USD $600 for a value fare. First class is about USD $250 more

I don't know if the milk runs are flown on combis, but if they are they won't have first class.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePhxiahszxjnu From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5307 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
don't know if the milk runs are flown on combis, but if they are they won't have first class.

The JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC is at times flown with the combi, but not all time.



James
User currently offlineBayAreaBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Currently, a combi will run flight 61 (SEA-JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC) as well as 64 (ANC-JNU-WRG-KTN-SEA). At least those were today's flights.

User currently offlineBrucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Did AS ever use the MD-80 on this milk run flight when they were still being flown- or has it always been a B732 (now B734)? I also saw an interesting article in Airways a while back on the B734- freight is carried in the forward part of the aircraft, pax in the rear, and a FA travels up front of the freight with the pilots so she/he can intervene in the event of lost capacity of one of the aircrew. I assume this is because there is no access through the freight section, for a FA to come forward from the aft (pax) area.

Thanks, Bruce.


User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

Quoting Brucek (Reply 13):
I also saw an interesting article in Airways a while back on the B734- freight is carried in the forward part of the aircraft, pax in the rear, and a FA travels up front of the freight with the pilots so she/he can intervene in the event of lost capacity of one of the aircrew. I assume this is because there is no access through the freight section, for a FA to come forward from the aft (pax) area.

Hmm, not sure about that (FA up front) for cost vs benefit reasons. But having been SLF on the AS 732 combi and 734 combi, know there's access to the freight portion via a door built into the bulkhead wall, and if you keep walking far enough, you'll eventually get to the flight deck. Big grin

Back when AS was serving a meal for the BRW-ANC flight (AS 55, combi), I remember the FO coming through that little door to pick up the two meal trays to bring to the flight deck. Kind of a strange sight if you're not used to it.  Seem to vaguely recall a narrow walkway (along the sides?) in the freight portion of the combi.

I'm not having much luck finding a photo of the 732 combi or 734 combi bulkheads from the pax side or I'd show you what this door looks like. I might have a photo from my most recent AS 734 combi ride a few months ago (on AS 55 as usual), but I'd have to look through my files for it.

Ah, here's a nice photo of the AS 732 combi from the freight side:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Alask...nes/Boeing-737-2X6C-Adv/0459420/L/

The door is clearly open, on the right side (facing paxs in the rear) of the bulkhead. Too bad these nice 732 combis are beer cans now. 

[Edited 2009-04-09 14:02:52]


DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Is it hard to non-rev on the milk run?


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePitintl From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4555 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
Is it hard to non-rev on the milk run?

I've never had any trouble. I've even done the milk run as an employee of another airline and ended up getting the entire row all the way to SEA. But as an AS employee, it's not tough at all.

The only time I've seen it fill up was during the Redoubt explosion. I hear they can be hard to nonrev in the summer though, which is when most of the tourist are flying upstate!



Fly On Trusted Wings - Fly Surinam Airways
User currently offlineIflewrepublic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 537 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4520 times:

You can see the door at the very front of the passenger cabin on the port side of the aircraft. The top of the door is visible above the seats.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Deepak Subramony




Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineFlyingNanook From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 830 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4505 times:

Here's the bulkhead from the back of the plane. You can see the door on the left side.

Big version: Width: 2048 Height: 1536 File size: 1696kb


And here's what's behind the door. This was taken flying AKN-ANC on the last day of 732 flying.
Big version: Width: 2048 Height: 1536 File size: 1775kb



Semper ubi sub ubi.
User currently offlineAs777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4368 times:



Quoting DingDong (Reply 14):
Hmm, not sure about that (FA up front) for cost vs benefit reasons.

Every time I have flown on a combi there has been 2 F/A in back and 1 up front with the cargo. When they do their cross-checks, there is always the rear, then a F/A upfront that also announces the forward cabin is secure and it is not the pilots.

Regarding your pics, those are all 732's. I have never flown a 732, but I am pretty sure there is NO door at the bulkhead of the 734 combi. I could be wrong, but I am 90% sure there isn't a door.


User currently offlineBayAreaBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4154 times:



Quoting As777 (Reply 19):
Regarding your pics, those are all 732's. I have never flown a 732, but I am pretty sure there is NO door at the bulkhead of the 734 combi. I could be wrong, but I am 90% sure there isn't a door.

There is a locked door between the passenger cabin and the main cargo deck on the 400 Combi. There is also a bulkhead with a door that seperates main cargo deck from the Fwd galley/lav and flight deck.

Crew cannot transition through the main cargo deck with cargo loaded as the ULD's used now are as wide as the aircraft floor and there is no room on the sides.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4122 times:



Quoting DingDong (Reply 14):
Hmm, not sure about that (FA up front) for cost vs benefit reasons. But having been SLF on the AS 732 combi and 734 combi, know there's access to the freight portion via a door built into the bulkhead wall, and if you keep walking far enough, you'll eventually get to the flight deck.



Quoting As777 (Reply 19):
Every time I have flown on a combi there has been 2 F/A in back and 1 up front with the cargo. When they do their cross-checks, there is always the rear, then a F/A upfront that also announces the forward cabin is secure and it is not the pilots.

Yes it is required that we have a FA up front because the front flight deck area is inaccessible from the passenger area in the back when there are ULDs on the main deck.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
I don't know if the milk runs are flown on combis, but if they are they won't have first class.

The milk runs are always preferred to be combis because of cargo and mail shipments going through WRG/PSG and YAK/CDV (EAS routes) and will only be switched to all pax airplanes if necessary.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
When the 732 combi was used for the milk run they used the rear stairs to disembark and embark pax in WRG and PSG. The 732 are no longer in the fleet I not sure if the 400 have rear stairs or if they are used. I would think yes.

They don't have built in rear stairs like the -200s did. But yes, we only board through the left rear door.

Quoting DingDong (Reply 14):
Back when AS was serving a meal for the BRW-ANC flight (AS 55, combi), I remember the FO coming through that little door to pick up the two meal trays to bring to the flight deck. Kind of a strange sight if you're not used to it. Seem to vaguely recall a narrow walkway (along the sides?) in the freight portion of the combi.

The ULDs on the -400s now are too big for you to walk around the sides. They are pretty flush with the fuselage. There is a door on the bulkhead wall that is only able to be opened from the cargo side...but obviously if you have cargo there you can't get to it.

Quoting Brucek (Reply 13):
Did AS ever use the MD-80 on this milk run flight when they were still being flown- or has it always been a B732 (now B734)?

It might have only been used in an extremely rare circumstance. They were never scheduled to do these routings.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4062 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 21):
The milk runs are always preferred to be combis because of cargo and mail shipments going through WRG/PSG and YAK/CDV (EAS routes) and will only be switched to all pax airplanes if necessary.

That is what I thought but I wasn't sure.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePaaClipper707 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4018 times:

The term 'Milk Run" has been used by most all the airlines which have flown along the Southeast Alaska coastal villages. Its almost impossible to raise livestock in the villages and mountain terrain. Milk and other dairy goods had to be flown into the villages, along with mail and other cargo. Years ago Pan American operated it's "Alaska Division" out of SEA, and SEA based crews would operate the 'Milk Run' on the Boeing Stratocruiser.


PAN AMERICAN -Dont Leave the Country Without Us-
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9490 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

I did SEA-Ketchikan-Juneau-Sitka when I went fishing there. It was quite a long journey. AS is the lifeline up there and fares are very high. However they seem justified since the costs must be extravagant to keep those airports open.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
25 TDubJFK : wow -- wha bore of a day for that FA trapped up front with no access to the cabin. Nothing but the pilots to talk to ... yeeessssh!!
26 Hatbutton : Haha well I rode jumpseat up there once in the cockpit and the FA didn't seem to mind. All she had to do was give the crew their meals and coffee and
27 Post contains links DingDong : FlyingNanook, that was some great photos. I don't know if it's yours or someone else's, but thanks for sharing -- perfect! So, hey guys, I was looking
28 Alaska737 : Cathay Pacific Cargo
29 DingDong : Ahhh, yes, you're right. Thanks!!!!
30 Rgreenftm : My wife and I did SEA-KTN-WRG-PSG-JNU-ANC-SEA-GEG all in one Saturday day. The AS 65 flight was 70+ open seats the entire way, last april when we did
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