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Questions About DL/NW At LAX  
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

I have a few questions about DL/NW at LAX.
When Delta had the last build up and added then cut flights to:
Boise, Denver, Eugene, Oakland, Phoenix, Portland ,Reno ,Sacramento ,San Francisco ,San Jose, Seattle, Spokane, Tucson, Belize City, Boston, Columbus, Cozumel, Fort Lauderdale, Guatemala City, Hartford, Hermosillo, Ixtapa, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, La Paz, Loreto,Los Mochis, Managua, Manzanillo, McAllen, Oklahoma City, Palm Springs, Raleigh, San Diego, Tijuana, Vancouver, Washington-Dulles, Wichita
Is that it?
All they have now is:
ATL,ACA(seasonal),CUN,CVG,FLL,JFK,MSY,GUA,HNL,LIR,LIH,OGG,KOA,MCO,SLC.

My question is in the last build up what routes had what a/c and how many flights a day.

also NW only has DTW,MSP,MEM,MKE,NRT and LAS right?


yep.
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5517 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Thread starter):
LAS right?

LAS will be gone and replaced by a CR9 that doesn't connect to the Tokyo flight anymore stranding those Japanese and other people from Asia from going to LAS on DL.

Delta will also be serving Sao Paulo from LAX soon.

As for the buildup, Denver had the E-145's which I guess DL thought would be a good idea to go up against UA flying 737's, Airbus's, 767's and 777's DEN-LAX. AA flew MD-80's, NW and I believe this was prior to DL buildup flew for a short time DEN-LAX with 319/320's and those went out full.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5489 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1):
LAS will be gone and replaced by a CR9 that doesn't connect to the Tokyo flight anymore stranding those Japanese and other people from Asia from going to LAS on DL.

DL has routings on LAS-NRT over SLC on its own metal as well as SEA and PDX on AS. There is no reason to continue to operate LAX-LAS solely for the purpose of connecting LAX passengers. I suspect the top O&D on SLC-NRT will be LAS.

Many of the RJ routes mentioned as being flown for DL out of LAX were flown by ExpressJet at their own risk. The only difference between the ExpressJet branded flying and most of the ExpressJet flying for DL under the DL code is that the DL coded flights were done for DL; ExpressJet jumped at the opportunity to fly out of LAX instead of ONT and DL took them up on the offer. ExpressJet was losing money on its branded and DL at risk flying and wanted out of both; DL let them out in return for suspending ExpressJet's ASM buy flying for DL as well.

AS serves many of the same markets ExoressJet flew so DL is not really losing anything.

Incidentally, the list of DL/NW destinations at LAX is rather significant and will still grow. DL will operate the only US carrier service to S. America from LAX in addition to service to NRT and Australia; the only other region of the world served by a US carrier from LAX is Europe and that is served by AF and KL under the joint venture, meaning DL gets half of the profits on those routes anyway.

As the economy improves, esp. in Asia, you will see DL consolidate its position in LAX as NW moves to T5 and DL deepens its relationship with AS which will create faster connections.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 6533 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5486 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1):
LAS will be gone and replaced by a CR9 that doesn't connect to the Tokyo flight anymore stranding those Japanese and other people from Asia from going to LAS on DL.

Is there some reason you are counting the NRT/SLC/LAS schedule which is just as convenient as the schedule via LAX? Doesn' look like too many if any "Japanese and other people from Asia" will be stranded does it? Or how about AS code share via SEA? By the way the NW sales manager responsible for Microsoft has still not heard one negative word from them about changing to a 767.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5436 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
I suspect the top O&D on SLC-NRT will be LAS.

While this might be true, never the less DL will be loosing a good deal of Japan-Las Vegas business, as most such travelers do not only visit LAS, but usualy add a stop in LA or SFO.

For instance JTB sold significant amount of LA and LAS packages on NWA which they now advertise on others, as the CR9 DL connection does not work either coming or going on from the NRT flight.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
AS serves many of the same markets ExoressJet flew so DL is not really losing anything.

I would not consider AS much of a replacement except for SEA and PDX. Their Q400 flying is a bit adhoc times while Mexico is mostly out in the AM, back in the PM not offering Delta much network connectivity. Also AS does not serve the critical LA-Bay Area market sans a single repositioning flight.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

The NWA/DL Japanese pax that want to visit LA and Vegas can still do so with no problems. They fly NRT-LAX, spend their time, fly LAX-LAS, spend their time and then fly home via SLC. I'm sure the 319 is better used elsewhere.

User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 893 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5382 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Thread starter):
ATL,ACA(seasonal),CUN,CVG,FLL,JFK,MSY,GUA,HNL,LIR,LIH,OGG,KOA,MCO,SLC.

My question is in the last build up what routes had what a/c and how many flights a day.

also NW only has DTW,MSP,MEM,MKE,NRT and LAS right?

Delta does LAX-TPA, although now it is on a NW A319.

NW does LAX-HNL with a 753. Just a note on that, NW flies to HNL from every major west coast city except San Diego, they do it from SEA, PDX, SFO and LAX. Will be interesting to see what changes here. Either SAN will be added or some of the others will be dropped.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

An NWA operated 753 will continue to operate LAX-HNL-LAX but brilliantly, they've retimed the HNL-LAX departure to a morning one. Now DL/NW will operate a morning, mid day and red eye to LAX. PDX/SFO remain as red eyes and the mid day and red eye to SEA remain.

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5106 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 3):
By the way the NW sales manager responsible for Microsoft has still not heard one negative word from them about changing to a 767.

1. What are you talking about? I don't recall ever mentioning Microsoft and a switch to a 767, I guess I didn't realize the SEA flight was switching to a 767.

2. They have not flown on the 767 yet...

Quoting C767P (Reply 6):
NW does LAX-HNL with a 753. Just a note on that, NW flies to HNL from every major west coast city except San Diego, they do it from SEA, PDX, SFO and LAX. Will be interesting to see what changes here. Either SAN will be added or some of the others will be dropped.

On another Hawaii note, DL is dropping NW's SEA-OGG 753 for a DL 752.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5080 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
On another Hawaii note, DL is dropping NW's SEA-OGG 753 for a DL 752.

did the same to LAX and IIRC SLC also.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):

For got to tell you. On the LAX-LAS thing, Loads look really good so it could get upgraded and or extra flights added. Now I did say loads and don't know about yields but LAX-LAS looks a hell of alot better than LAX-SYD.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
AS serves many of the same markets ExoressJet flew so DL is not really losing anything.

Yay for Outsourcing(which ill guess your fine with.......)
Fact is Delta should be building with there own a/c and there own people. Not getting other airlines to fly for them. Delta has the people and has the planes but they just don't want to.
They are already trying to f**k the DALPA over on scope so why don't we let AS just do all west coast opps? Put the screws the people even more.........It will be funny though when Delta ends up with more unions around just because of this reason.



yep.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

Looks like they changed the schedule again... at one point it was a red tail departing around noon from LAX and returning from HNL in the 8am hour. Now it seems there are 2 red eyes departing HNL. It's better use of equipment, but rather silly since a morning departure is nice from HNL so that you get into LAX at a reasonable time. Not everyone wants to get to LA late at night or at 5-6am.

L1011 - you're missing the point with regards to the LAX issue. It's not an ALPA issue, a screwing someone over issue or an outsourcing issue. It's a traffic, revenue, demand and COST issue. Why should DL allocate their own expensive resources in markets they may not do well in? Until there is substantial feed and large amounts of people willing to fly DL over UA, WN and the rest out of LAX it makes perfect sense to CODE SHARE and use DCI for those routes.

Oh yea... how is DL trying to screw their pilots on scope?

[Edited 2009-04-10 15:57:04]

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4999 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 12):
Oh yea... how is DL trying to screw their pilots on scope?

Well let me take that back......they ARE screwing the DALPA on scope........The are over the number of 76 seaters. And have yet to add more mainline planes.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 12):
L1011 - you're missing the point with regards to the LAX issue. It's not an ALPA issue, a screwing someone over issue or an outsourcing issue. It's a traffic, revenue, demand and COST issue. Why should DL allocate their own expensive resources in markets they may not do well in? Until there is substantial feed and large amounts of people willing to fly DL over UA, WN and the rest out of LAX it makes perfect sense to CODE SHARE and use DCI for those routes.

This is something they will never get unless they get into the market with there own metal. To get traffic away from UA,AA and WN they had to add flights to the mayor markets and sit on it for a while. Not only this but put "Delta" on everything they can. The problem people have with Delta in LA is the fact one month they could have 200 flights a day then the next have only hubs. DL has a foot in the door now they just need to take time and open it up.
Take a look at the new route map......the west is almost nothing.

BTW Azj.......do you happen to know how tight NW is on SF3? As in are they pretty much full on the number of flights they can add? I was thinking DL might try to use them to replace the OO E20s in SLC when they go. Didn't know if they have the numbers or not.



yep.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

They are not over on scope... DALPA rolled over and allowed the cap to increase to make the numbers look pretty.

It makes ZERO sense in this day and age to fly around half full airplanes in the domestic market to build brand awareness. Start small, stimulate the market and upgauge when the time is right. Throwing capacity at markets is suicide. While initially the CASM goes down because the plane is larger, you end up selling seats at a loss to fill them. That's rather counter productive from a business stand point.

With regards to the XJ saabs. We only have 49 and are spread pretty thin as it is. With operations now in MSP, DTW, MEM, TLH and ATL I doubt very seriously that the current fleet could continue status quo and cover the OO Bro flying out west. Unless DL extends the leases, they were all put on shorter term leases in Ch11. So... you do the math.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4948 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):
Take a look at the new route map......the west is almost nothing.

Show me a route map outside of maybe United and Southwest that looks more balanced with scope of eastern/western US than Delta?



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4864 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 15):
Show me a route map outside of maybe United and Southwest that looks more balanced with scope of eastern/western US than Delta?

US,AA,WN,UA.

Delta is very east coast/midwest with a little in the west and almost nothing on the coast.



yep.
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4784 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):
Delta is very east coast/midwest with a little in the west and almost nothing on the coast.

Are you forgeting DL's SLC hub?  Yeah sure



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4701 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
While this might be true, never the less DL will be loosing a good deal of Japan-Las Vegas business, as most such travelers do not only visit LAS, but usualy add a stop in LA or SFO.

For instance JTB sold significant amount of LA and LAS packages on NWA which they now advertise on others, as the CR9 DL connection does not work either coming or going on from the NRT flight.

I was under the impression that NRT-LAX-NRT was an example of a market DL was keen to boost yield on. Seemed NW was disadvantaged with the B744 operating the route. Granted NW managed to fill it most days, but it was certainly at a cost with the consolidators bulking out the back.

With SLC unable to sustain NRT on O & D alone, seems a good move to funnel as many connections over SLC as possible.

Quickly off topic - does any of the DL posse know the reason for NRT-LAX-NRT reverting to the 744 in June? Summer upgauge?



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4691 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 15):
Are you forgeting DL's SLC hub?

Oh yes  Yeah sure
Again very little feed on the west I'd say SLC is around 300 flights a day. Most on RJs. Not as bad as CVG but not as good as it use to be.
Delta USE to have hubs in SLC,PDX and LAX. Plus DFW. Now all they have SLC and have cut SLC down. ("right sized")

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Thread starter):
My question is in the last build up what routes had what a/c and how many flights a day.

anyone wanna answer this or.....?



yep.
User currently onlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4676 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
While this might be true, never the less DL will be loosing a good deal of Japan-Las Vegas business, as most such travelers do not only visit LAS, but usualy add a stop in LA or SFO.

In which case it doesn't matter if the connection works or not as they're not connecting anyways...



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4618 times:



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 18):
In which case it doesn't matter if the connection works or not as they're not connecting anyways...

Sure it does. As the packages are normally sold Japan-LA stopover, LA-Vegas, then Vegas-LA-Japan returns

At the moment the NW/DL NRT-LAX flights do not connect to LAS coming or going.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4611 times:

So they sell the packages with a SLC connection on the return instead. No big deal.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4598 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 20):
So they sell the packages with a SLC connection on the return instead. No big deal.

I don't believe so. a LAS-SLC-NRT exceeds the IATA mileage allotment, and causes a refaring surcharge.

Or atleast so per the JTB reps attached to the LA Convention & Visitors Bureau, they are now selling their LA/Vegas tours primarily in favor of JL/AA, instead of NW.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4595 times:

Maybe it's worth losing the bargain basement fares that only provide revenue and no yield. I can see DLs tactics now... reduce capacity and therefore reduce junk fares.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4572 times:



Quoting Aaway (Reply 16):
I was under the impression that NRT-LAX-NRT was an example of a market DL was keen to boost yield on. Seemed NW was disadvantaged with the B744 operating the route. Granted NW managed to fill it most days, but it was certainly at a cost with the consolidators bulking out the back.



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 22):
Maybe it's worth losing the bargain basement fares that only provide revenue and no yield. I can see DLs tactics now... reduce capacity and therefore reduce junk fares.

I guess DL found a away to make money on the 744. Once it comes back it stays till DEC(and thats as far as I looked. So it could be past that). Maybe down grading PDX they are able to send more PAX down to LA via AS? Or they won some type of contract that no has said anything about? Lastly maybe they need all the C seats? Just a few ideas.

Quoting Aaway (Reply 16):

thanks for the info......what was the IAD route going to be on? IIRC 737 but not sure.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 12):
With regards to the XJ saabs. We only have 49 and are spread pretty thin as it is. With operations now in MSP, DTW, MEM, TLH and ATL I doubt very seriously that the current fleet could continue status quo and cover the OO Bro flying out west. Unless DL extends the leases, they were all put on shorter term leases in Ch11. So... you do the math.

Thought so thanks for the info.



yep.
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4353 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
I was thinking DL might try to use them to replace the OO E20s in SLC when they go.

Of course, keep in mind the OO E120s in SLC are doing SkyWest at-risk flying. There would be no reason for DL to send saabs out there.



Good goes around!
25 DeltaL1011man : Oh ok my bad I thought Delta still had E20 flights out of SLC.
26 Bobnwa : The company you mentioned was Nike not Microsoft my mistake. But my remark still stands, the sales manager responsible for Nike at NW has never heard
27 WorldTraveler : DL also has OGG service from LAX and SLC. Also, is the NW 753 capable of flying nonstop from OGG to the west coast or does it require a stop at anoth
28 STT757 : ATA had no problems with their 757-300 nonstops from Maui to LAX and SFO, they didn't need any intermediate stops in Kona.
29 Planefxr : June 4th SLC-OGG uprades to a 763. 753 OGG-LAX,SFO,PDX,SEA should not be a problem but OGG-SLC might be.
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