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Boeing 777 Freighter  
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

So simple questions, what is the official designation of the 777 freighter? I've seen it listed on here - using Air France as an example - as: -

777-228F
777-228FER
777-F28

Which version is correct?


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25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

The correct answer is : B777-F28

F = Freighter

28 = Air France Boeing's customer code.


User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3303 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5318 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 1):
The correct answer is : B777-F28

F = Freighter

28 = Air France Boeing's customer code.

Never seen any B747-Fxx or B767-Fxx before, so why B777-Fxx?



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5238 times:



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 2):
Never seen any B747-Fxx or B767-Fxx before, so why B777-Fxx?

Because "Boeing 777F" is the official designation - not "Boeing 777-200F" or anything else. They make no difference between -200 or 300 like the 747-300F or 747-400F.


User currently offlineAtomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5226 times:



Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 3):

Because "Boeing 777F" is the official designation - not "Boeing 777-200F" or anything else. They make no difference between -200 or 300 like the 747-300F or 747-400F.

So what would the naming convention be for future converted freighters, I wonder... 777-300ERCF?


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5165 times:



Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 4):
So what would the naming convention be for future converted freighters, I wonder... 777-300ERCF?

Good question indeed ... I think converted freighters will be designated as 777-200BCF/777-200ERBCF (-300BCF) or SF instead.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4989 times:
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As I wrote in another thread, the official ICAO model name is 777-200LRF, with B77L (same as the 777-200LR) as type designator.

As far as the FAA is concerned, it seems to be more fluid. The first plane was a 777F, there is a 777F1B, 77F1H and 777F28 respectively for CZ, EK and AF. Gecas' plane, on the other hand, is a 777-F6N (notice the hyphen).

[Edited 2009-04-10 14:07:28]


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User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Those 777Fs sure look nice and they do the job..

what are the chances of Lufthansa Cargo ordering 777Fs???? would love to see the Lufthansa livery on a 777....


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4685 times:



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 6):
As I wrote in another thread, the official ICAO model name is 777-200LRF

Where are the ICAO official model names recorded? From Boeing's side, there's no such thing as a 777-200LRF, just a 777F. The type certificate also lists 777F, not 777-200LRF.

Tom.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9386 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

besides the Boeing designators for the various models there is, at the moment, only one OAG designator for the ///F and that is 77F. If there will be, in the future, different 777 freighter models, there will be another designator for each model. Take the 767,

76F 767 freighter
76X 767-200 freighter
76Y 767-300 freighter

they have 9 different for all sorts of 747s, including one for the swingtail = 74B



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User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Thanks for the responses so far. But the last couple of posts raise another two questions for me. Where can you find full lists of ICAO and OAG designations for aircraft types? And which is more commonly used - OAG would be in timetables I assume, but where are ICAO type designators commonly used?


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4076 times:
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Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
Where are the ICAO official model names recorded?

Sorry I missed the question for so long.
ICAO model names are available from the horse's mouth at:
http://www.icao.int/anb/ais/8643/index.cfm
(Enter "Boeing" in manufacturer and leave the rest of the fields blank to get all Boeing planes)



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

Does anyone here think there could be a 777-3F? Or would that compete with the 748?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4025 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
Does anyone here think there could be a 777-3F?

Unlikely as a factory new-build or conversion option, but I could see somebody like Bedek working on a 777-300 Package Freighter conversion for the 60 773s currently in service. That being said, while it didn't pan out as a popular model, it really does perform it's role (A-Market High-Density Shuttle) quite well, so I would not be surprised if a number of airlines keep them in service for a time.


User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

Do you think we will see more converted freighters on the 737NGs? Since cargo gets the latest of the out of fashion pax aircraft, my guess is that it will be the one merely because there are so many of them out there

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3830 times:
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Quoting 413x3 (Reply 14):
Do you think we will see more converted freighters on the 737NGs?

I think that perhaps the 737 Classics would become freighter conversions first. Boeing did make a 737-300SF model with a 20t payload, 130m3 volume and a range of 3000km. That is less payload volume and weight then a 727-200F so perhaps the 737-400 might be a better foundation to build off of for payload volume and weight.

Based on the specs from Airbus customer presentations, the A320P2F will offer 21t of payload weight, 150m3 of volume and 3300km of range so a 737 Classic P2F could compete on performance and might beat it on acquisition price.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3701 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):

Unlikely as a factory new-build or conversion option, but I could see somebody like Bedek working on a 777-300 Package Freighter conversion for the 60 773s currently in service. That being said, while it didn't pan out as a popular model, it really does perform it's role (A-Market High-Density Shuttle) quite well, so I would not be surprised if a number of airlines keep them in service for a time.

Well, I was actually thinking of a 773 freighter based on the 77W. I don't think the 773 has enough lifting power combined with range to do much as a freighter. Maybe as a domestic bulk hauler, but I agree.

The 77W has the oomph, however. But I think Boeing would be concerned that such a model could compete with the 748.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3685 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Based on the specs from Airbus customer presentations, the A320P2F will offer 21t of payload weight, 150m3 of volume and 3300km of range so a 737 Classic P2F could compete on performance and might beat it on acquisition price.

The one problem I see with this is the hours and cycles that the average 737 classic has seen.

Finding a proper number of frames that share commonality of build, engines, etc with low hours/cycles and good condition is going to likely limit any 737 classic program for freighters. too many see use to the very edge of economic lifespan at the airlines that ordered them in large quantities. Perhaps I'll be wrong and the downturn will kick enough loose like UA sending a good number to be parked.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3637 times:
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Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
Finding a proper number of frames that share commonality of build, engines, etc with low hours/cycles and good condition is going to likely limit any 737 classic program for freighters.

Does that really matter, though? The DC-8-70 series planes many freight operators (including 5X) are using are likely approaching their fourth decade of service. Heck, even the 722Fs leaving fleets at FX and others are likely multiple decades old.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3551 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
Does that really matter, though? The DC-8-70 series planes many freight operators (including 5X) are using are likely approaching their fourth decade of service. Heck, even the 722Fs leaving fleets at FX and others are likely multiple decades old.

It does make a big difference on the cost/benifit calculation. If you have to pay $5million for a conversion, you need X number of years to pay that off no matter how cheap the frame is. And rare configurations will cost more per year in MX, as will higher cycle frames.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3541 times:
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Quoting Juventus (Reply 7):
what are the chances of Lufthansa Cargo ordering 777Fs????

For fleet commonality with their A346's?  Wink

Actually, there is a chance... but I see their fleet being 748F's (compliment the 748I's) and A330F's going forward. But heck, only my  twocents 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3191 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 20):
Actually, there is a chance...

Lufthansa Cargo has already ordered the 777 freighter, sort of. It is in a joint venture with DHL called AeroLogic, which should receive its first 777 soon.



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User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

not anymore! Aerologic seem to have started the quiet waltz towards bust. Like almost all startup cargo operators.

User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3129 times:
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That would be news for my DHL contact. What makes you believe Aerologic is being shelved ? I would think the 777s would be welcome if only to eliminate the refueling stop many destinations require with the MD11s.


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User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Oops I think I am mistaken. I was thinking about the last -400ERFs ordered by a start up cargo airline.

User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3109 times:
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oic, I'm assuming you mean LoadAir Cargo ? It does seem the planes are headed straight for a warm, dry parking spot indeed.


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