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Piaggio P-180 Avanti: Ever In Airline Service?  
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

This seems like such a cool little plane. Has it ever been used -or considered for use- in airline service?

Looks like it could probably seat 10-12 or so, seems to have a pretty spacious cabin too. Somewhere, somehow there's GOTTA be a replacement for those horrible 9-seat piston powered Cesspools that airlines like Cape Air use!


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11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4497 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Thread starter):
there's GOTTA be a replacement for those horrible 9-seat piston powered Cesspools that airlines like Cape Air use!

Only problem with your idea.... the Avanti costs 30 times what a Cape Air Cessna does



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4471 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Only problem with your idea.... the Avanti costs 30 times what a Cape Air Cessna does

OUCH! OK, that 'splains it, then! Shame, tho!


User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4467 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Only problem with your idea.... the Avanti costs 30 times what a Cape Air Cessna does

How much is that?



The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4423 times:

Piaggio Aero is currently producing the P-180 Avanti II. Avanti I is out of production.

Quoting TDubJFK (Thread starter):
This seems like such a cool little plane. Has it ever been used -or considered for use- in airline service?

Fractional airline Avantair is the largest operator of the P-180 Avanti/Avanti II on the planet. They have about 40 of the 180 made. Other than that...it's not easy to get a ride on one, unless you are a private owner or happen to work for the Guardia di Finanza, Carabinieri, or Italian Military!

Quoting TDubJFK (Thread starter):
Looks like it could probably seat 10-12 or so, seems to have a pretty spacious cabin too.

I think it's got 8 seats if I remember correctly. I've been on board lots of P-180s and the cabin is VERY nice. You (well, at least me at 1.74m) can stand up in the cabin without hitting my head on the ceiling. It's sufficiently wide as well, and if you look on the Piaggio Aero website you'll see that the company advertises the aircraft's cabin as one of the aircraft's major value propositions over its competitors (most of which are jet powered).



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4406 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Thread starter):
Looks like it could probably seat 10-12 or so,

Max passenger seating capacity is 9 but they are typically configured for anywhere from 5 to 8.

Quoting TDubJFK (Thread starter):
Somewhere, somehow there's GOTTA be a replacement for those horrible 9-seat piston powered Cesspools that airlines like Cape Air use!

Yeah, it's called the Caravan!  eek   duck 


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4395 times:



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 5):
Yeah, it's called the Caravan!

PC-12s are nicer.

How does the P-180 compare with VLJs and Citations when it comes to price and performance. It is kind of an interesting corner of aviation where jets and turboprops intersect. Personally, I'd take a King Air over some of the VLJs out there.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4375 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
PC-12s are nicer.

Oh, no question. However, the Caravan has a lower acquisition cost and I think the operating costs are lower too.


User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

have you ever heard an Avanti flying overhead? bloody noisy!! I wonder what interior noise is like on this otherwise elegant plane?


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4274 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
How does the P-180 compare with VLJs and Citations when it comes to price and performance. It is kind of an interesting corner of aviation where jets and turboprops intersect. Personally, I'd take a King Air over some of the VLJs out there.

The P-180 does and doesn't compete with the VLJs. At 8-9 seats the Piaggio has more capacity than a typical VLJ, but that doesn't necessarily mean than people won't cross shop them. Specially private clients - fractional and air taxi operators might not.

If you compare the P180 to the Falcon (50 probably), Citation Excel, or CJ2/3 you'll find that not only is the Piaggio more comfortable on the inside, but it has cheaper acquisition costs and cheaper fuel costs due to the fact that it is a prop. However the aircraft's performance still enables it to fly at around Mach 0.70 which is pretty close to what the jets can do. It has incredible performance.

On the other hand, it's unclear to me what the differences in maintenance costs would be. I know that the P-180 isn't exactly the airplane equivalent of the Honda Civic when it comes to maintenance, but I wouldn't be able to say how it compares with a jet.

It'll be interesting to how the aircraft stacks up to the Embraer Phenom series when that aircraft becomes available.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4265 times:



Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 8):
I wonder what interior noise is like on this otherwise elegant plane?

The rearward facing configuration plus the fact that the exhaust from the engines blows into the props does unfortunately make them very loud. But you'd be surprised - mostly due to the position of the engines at the rear of the fuselage the aircraft are whisper quite on the inside.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4126 times:



Quoting Airxliban (Reply 10):
But you'd be surprised

... I can clearly see where cabin noise would be less of an issue with pusher-style props at the rear. The EXTERIOR noise is quite remarkable... we have a regular visitor (if not resident) P180 here in YYC, and my house is under one of the main flightpaths into the airport... You can always make out the loud, high pitched whine of the Avanti flying overhead...



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
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