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Delta Begins Insourcing And Bringing Back Workers  
User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8989 times:

It is so good to hear some positive news out there in the industry and this is certainly a great start by Delta....

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009904110336

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8905 times:

This is really good news...as I much prefer DL being represented by DL people


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineWorldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8832 times:

It is good news and the size of the combined DL/NW does allow some functions to be done in-house for a larger operation than other airlines can come up with (DL/NW will be the largest carrier in many domestic stations), but there are some catches.

(DL Exec) "Campbell said pre-merger Northwest workers on furlough who want to return to work through the insourcing program will be able to after a vote. "

In other words, DL is dangling the carrot of recall for many NW workers but only after the representation elections have taken place. And of course if the combined DL/NW workforce becomes unionized, then DL has to renegotiate a contract with all employees, and it is far from certain that there will continue to be a "need" for an increased number of workers if the groups become unionized.

There are clear opportunities for DL to grow its workforce and bring furloughed employees back but the NW employees on furlough will likely only benefit if the combined groups become non-union.


User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1930 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8805 times:

And this really explains why Omaha (a station with soon to have 27 flights a day, 4 of which are mainline NW aircraft) is going to be entirely handled by Midwest employees. Doesn't make ANY freakin sense!

User currently offlineWorldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8761 times:

DLX,
read the article and you'll see that OMA will not be initially considered for NW insourcing until the representation issue is resolved. Big carrot there.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8334 times:



Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 3):
Doesn't make ANY freakin sense!

There's also a lot of stations that have DL work outsourced, that they won't let NW work until "representation issues are settled," which is ridiculous. There's nothing in any CBA at NW that precludes us from picking up work from vendors.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7987 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 5):
representation issues are settled,"

And people wonder why Detroit is having mass unemployment. These Unions best days have long since past. I wish they would go the way of the dinosuar.
Every employer should have an open facility. If you want the union to represent you fine. However your pay and bennies will be the same no matter what.

Regards,

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7844 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 6):

It's not the IAM that's stalling this "insourcing" from vendors, it's the company. I can certainly understand their position in cities where there are M/L employees at both carriers; that's fair. But in places where DL is vendored, and NW is not, there is no excuse. DL is now working NW flights in several places where our operation is outsourced. There's nothing precluding that from being a 2-way street. Period.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineRivervisual From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

Delta is not stupid enough to INCREASE the number of union members on property by opening up stations / positions to current or furloughed Northwest IAM represented employees

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7496 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 6):
Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 5):
representation issues are settled,"

And people wonder why Detroit is having mass unemployment. These Unions best days have long since past. I wish they would go the way of the dinosuar.

Why should DL "reward" NW's unions with the ability to pick up additional work when DL employees cannot do the same for NW? Staffing and scope is indeed a part of union contracts and until NW's unions are willing to let go of the contracts, their people are the ones who will miss out on the benefit of being a part of a SINGLE airline instead of one that continues to operate as two from an employee standpoint.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 7):
It's not the IAM that's stalling this "insourcing" from vendors, it's the company.

Then why have several other unions, including ALPA which is one of the most powerful unions in the US, been able to settle the representation issues and work as one - or put in place plans to do so?

DL simply wants to enjoy the benefits of the merger which include a whole lot of staffing efficiencies. NW and DL both have been pretty efficient airlines compared to their peers so both know what can be achieved. Allowing unions to keep these efficiencies and the resulting increased staffing that could be available to DL and NW employees hurts the company and the employees. If the unions are confident they can win the vote, then they should not be afraid to let it happen. If they can't win the vote, then the people are clearly saying the union has no value any longer and the employees need to demand a vote so they can begin to enjoy the benefits which DL is offering, includinig larger pay raises, increased flexibility in staffing, more jobs, and expanded benefits.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6902 times:



Quoting Rivervisual (Reply 8):
Delta is not stupid enough to INCREASE the number of union members on property by opening up stations / positions to current or furloughed Northwest IAM represented employees

We're talking about maintaining staffing at *current* stations. Opening up stations-while certainly important-isn't on the table yet.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Why should DL "reward" NW's unions with the ability to pick up additional work when DL employees cannot do the same for NW?

Uh, DL already is working NW flights in previously vendored cities (eg. SNA, BDL, SLC). The better question is why would DL not only "punish" NW employees by possibly furloughing them, while at the same time "rewarding" a 3rd party with continued work?

Quote:
Staffing and scope is indeed a part of union contracts



Scope is not only part of a CBA, but IMO is the most [/i]important[/i] part. Without it, nothing else matters.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Then why have several other unions, including ALPA which is one of the most powerful unions in the US, been able to settle the representation issues and work as one - or put in place plans to do so?

With ALPA, there was a great financial incentive to do so. With the AMT's, anyone at DL would have been a fool to go with AMFA in it's current mribund state and the imposed terms of their CBA. The TWU decided that being represented had merit, and stuck with DL's incumbent union, PAFCA.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
DL simply wants to enjoy the benefits of the merger which include a whole lot of staffing efficiencies.

Please explain how keeping one "side" mainline while simultaneously paying a 3 rd party to do the other side is more efficient.

Quote:
NW and DL both have been pretty efficient airlines compared to their peers so both know what can be achieved.

Yes we do.

That inconvenient truth runs counter to the stereotype that unions are hamstringing the company with their alleged inefficiencies.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6901 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Why should DL "reward" NW's unions with the ability to pick up additional work when DL employees cannot do the same for NW

Rewarding? How is this rewarding? Nwaesc is right, there are may stations that are handeled by ML employees of DL but no longer NW, so why cant NW start handeling DL where they are outsoucred? Would only seem fair, but a text book example of union busting.



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13260 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6868 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Staffing and scope is indeed a part of union contracts and until NW's unions are willing to let go of the contracts, their people are the ones who will miss out on the benefit of being a part of a SINGLE airline instead of one that continues to operate as two from an employee standpoint.

That is the point. DL would rather staff stations with DL staff. However, until the NW representation issue is settled, its too expensive, under current work rules, to not outsource.

For DL to be healthy, efficiencies must be gained. In other words, staff flexibility that the IAM is loath to allow. Let the vote happen and then we'll see what DL does. I would expect more insourcing. But I agree with other posters, it would be insane for DL to insource certain stations until the representation issue is settled.


I'm happy to hear DL is 'insourcing.' I hope the trend continues. But read this carefully:
Profits from the TechOps division have helped offset recessionary losses on Delta's passenger and cargo operation.
The TechOps must stay profitable or DL would have to immediately shrink passenger and freight operations to break even.  Sad

Quoting Worldtraveler (Reply 2):
There are clear opportunities for DL to grow its workforce and bring furloughed employees back but the NW employees on furlough will likely only benefit if the combined groups become non-union.

 checkmark  It must be more profitable to insource than outsource.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6757 times:

It wont let me edit, but also:

Didn't NW catering in NRT just take over the DL contract catering for the NRT/ATL flight? Seems that NW is starting to take over DL stuff slowly but surely.


User currently onlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 567 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6707 times:

If I understand correctly, once the SOC is complete, both airlines are officially and completely merged? So what happens to the 40 or so NW ML stations if there is no representation agreements? Do the DL people work the NW flights (and vice versa) or do the employees keep "within arms length" of each other? Or do they go to a vendor like the new RHS? And what about the FA's? Do they work each others flights, and will both workforces bid even though no agreement is made? There are a lot of questions that people would like to know.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Then why have several other unions, including ALPA which is one of the most powerful unions in the US, been able to settle the representation issues and work as one - or put in place plans to do so?

That's comparing apples to oranges. Dickie HAS to deal with the pilots. It made perfect business sense for them to come together to iron out a working agreement and seniority list. Not like the FA's & ramp where DL employees have the numbers advantage.
AMFA was a joke, so DL don't have to worry about that one.

Is the unions trying to get their ducks in a row and waiting for "card check" to pass? Or will Dickie somehow "sweeten the deal" and improve the pay and benefits packages and eliminate the SS Offset? From what I hear, EFCA may get stuck in the Senate, and may not pass or get watered down. (The numbers don't look too good with the moderates are iffy on this one). And once the SOC is finalized, is there is a deadline for representation issues to be settled upon, to integrate the workforces fully?

The bottom line is some people don't trust Dickie to come thru due to previous experience. I hope that this changes and everyone comes together and all will work out for everyone involved and the furloughed employees on both sides can "come home".



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6565 times:



Quoting Ocracoke (Reply 13):
Didn't DL just announce (a few weeks ago) that NW ramp would be picking up DL contracted work at MSP/DTW/MEM

Yes they did, and it's certainly a good start. All that does, however, is validate my point; if they're going to do it in one place, why not another?

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 15):
Or will Dickie somehow "sweeten the deal" and improve the pay and benefits packages and eliminate the SS Offset?

That's already under way. Improvements to "quality of life" issues (such as shift trades) for Dl workers have been made to mirror more closely NW's. The real question will be what happens to these improvements should the representation election fail?

The SS offset cannot be eliminated.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6406 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 10):
DL already is working NW flights in previously vendored cities (eg. SNA, BDL, SLC).



Quoting T5towbar (Reply 15):

Again, the intention is to improve benefits and work for DL/NW employees, not for vendors or connection carriers.


If I understand correctly, once the SOC is complete, both airlines are officially and completely merged?

The SOC and representation issues are separate.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 15):
Not like the FA's & ramp where DL employees have the numbers advantage.

There is no large employee group where the NW employee group had a size advantage.
In fact, I believe NW had a larger meteorology group than DL but the combined group chose NOT to unionize.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 16):
Yes they did, and it's certainly a good start.

AND I suspect that the DL work that was taken over in large NW cities could be done by existing NW employees with minimal reworking of assignments - even if some of those employees come from other stations. When you start adding stations like OMA (as mentioned), the cost/reward gets a whole lot higher.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 16):
The SS offset cannot be eliminated.

since the SS offset is part of the pension plans which will not be merged, it is very possible that there will be benefits differences between DL and NW employees; it happened with WA and PA employees.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 10):
Scope is not only part of a CBA, but IMO is the most [/i]important[/i] part. Without it, nothing else matters.

And precisely why DL is not going to dismantle part of the contract while leaving the rest in place. If NW employees want access to all of DL's work and vice versa, the representation issues have to be resolved. Again, if there is no fear that NW unions can win over the DL employees, then let the vote proceed. If they can't sustain the votes necessary to unionize all DL people, then they will have to continue to exist as a sub-group without the benefits the rest of the unified DL/NW employee group has.


User currently offlineSkyguyB727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6241 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 6):
Every employer should have an open facility. If you want the union to represent you fine. However your pay and bennies will be the same no matter what.

In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. In a non-union environment, pay, benefits, and work rules can and do change solely on the whim of management. Employees have no input. If your employer announces that they are cutting everyone's pay by 25% and eliminating health insurance effective tomorrow, your only recourse if you don't like it is to quit. The company always has the upper hand.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Why should DL "reward" NW's unions with the ability to pick up additional work when DL employees cannot do the same for NW?

That's not true. DL (Delta Connection in my city) is already doing NW union work that is protected in the NW CBA. Don't think it's not happening.


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6157 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 12):
It must be more profitable to insource than outsource.

Ding ding ding ding ding ding!!! Winner, Winner, Winner!
Why can't people figure this one out?

Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 18):
If your employer announces that they are cutting everyone's pay by 25% and eliminating health insurance effective tomorrow, your only recourse if you don't like it is to quit. The company always has the upper hand.

Actually, you're wrong.
Only in a seniority based system does the company have the upper hand. In the "free market", if a company does decide "that they are cutting everyone's pay by 25% and eliminating health insurance effective tomorrow" then they will lose their BEST employees as they will leave, and no company wants that. In a union dominated industry where seniority rules, the company can safely do that (ie through bankruptcy) because the employees can't move to a better situation. Seniority is a trap.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

What it comes down to is this........why is the IAM so reluctant to start the election process? I would think that the longer they wait, the less support they will have as any benefit changes or the insourcing for example or any other "bribes" (as some of you imply) will have brought many people over to the non-union side. It does no good to wait for "card check" as it does not apply to airline personnel under the Railway Labor Act.

Just my  twocents 



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineRivervisual From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5942 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 10):
We're talking about maintaining staffing at *current* stations. Opening up stations-while certainly important-isn't on the table yet.

actually DL is talking about (re) opening outsourced stations so this is not a simple issue of maintaining current levels at an existing station. DL is looking to bring back their own furloughed employees as well as transfer current employees from overstaffed stations and place them in stations that are currently outsourced. Example IAD - NW has there own ramp and DL is outsourced to DGS. DL wants to bring back DL ramp to the station.

Why would DL want to offer these positions to any current or furloughed IAM represented NW employee when the IAM will not allow DL to utilize their (DL) current or furloughed employees at NW in house stations?

It's a double standard that the IAM wants to apply - let us work at your stations but you cant work at ours.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5831 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
AND I suspect that the DL work that was taken over in large NW cities could be done by existing NW employees with minimal reworking of assignments

I suspect you're right. I would go even further, and say that it'd be even easier in a smaller one.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
If NW employees want access to all of DL's work and vice versa, the representation issues have to be resolved.

Just to be clear; I'm only talking about outsourced work. I have no problem with M/L DL employees continuing to do "their own" work. No one at NW is looking to wrest that from them.

Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 18):
That's not true. DL (Delta Connection in my city) is already doing NW union work that is protected in the NW CBA. Don't think it's not happening.

 checkmark 

Quoting Tugger (Reply 19):
Ding ding ding ding ding ding!!! Winner, Winner, Winner!
Why can't people figure this one out?

You got me....

Quoting Tugger (Reply 19):
Only in a seniority based system does the company have the upper hand.

Well, DL *is* a seniority based company...

Quoting Rivervisual (Reply 21):
actually DL is talking about (re) opening outsourced stations so this is not a simple issue of maintaining current levels at an existing station.

I know, and that's good. But actually it is about maintaining current levels in some places. For example, in PDX, the NRT & AMS trips will now be flown by DL. ATS handles DL there. That obviously leaves NWA quite overstaffed. What I'm saying is rather than furlough (the company is on a big insourcing kick after all) NW people while still paying a vendor to do it, they should have NW take it over-as was their stated intent in a company wide memo from October.

On a separate note, I also know PDX is one of the places DL wants to "reopen," so let's assume they have "sufficient interest." Why not bring them back, as opposed to continuing to have ATS?

Quote:
It's a double standard that the IAM wants to apply - let us work at your stations but you cant work at ours.

It's not a double standard. And they're not "your" (meaning DL staffed) stations. What they're saying is "if you're going to have M/L DL work NW aircraft in outsourced cities, then we should have a shot at the same opportunities."



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5789 times:



Quoting Rivervisual (Reply 21):
It's a double standard that the IAM wants to apply - let us work at your stations but you cant work at ours.

I wouldn't say its a double standard really, but in cities like SFO, NW and DL still have seperate station managers,ect until the issues regarding the union representation get worked out.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 10):
Uh, DL already is working NW flights in previously vendored cities (eg. SNA, BDL, SLC).

SNA was contracted by both DL and NW previously. I believe ATS handled NW and GAT handled DL. I think DGS was awarded the contract there. BDL was a WFS city for NWA, and I can't remember who handled DL, but that had been contracted out as well. SLC is the only example of one or the other having their own employees.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 10):
Please explain how keeping one "side" mainline while simultaneously paying a 3 rd party to do the other side is more efficient.

This is a matter of opinion on my part, but I presume it is to ensure that the number of NWA IAM employees eligible for a vote doesn't increase. I am not a fan of the unions by any means, as stated in previous threads, but if DL is doing this for the reason I just stated, then it would be a form of union bashing to a degree. At the end of the day though, my opinions aside, I hope that DL rethinks this and at least does make it a fair vote. My two cents.


User currently offlineCrjfixer From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5750 times:

Delta tech ops in MEM would be nice! The swisspost mechanics gone wold be nicer

User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5703 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 22):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 19):
Only in a seniority based system does the company have the upper hand.

Well, DL *is* a seniority based company...

That I understand. I was primarily responding the the concept of a company just summarily cutting wages or benefits and there being no recourse for the employees. This is simple false.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
25 Nwaesc : SNA & BDL had (have) DL M/L above the wing. I realize we've been mostly discussing the ramp, but the point I made still stands. Certainly a plausible
26 Rwy04LGA : When will the vote happen and why is there a delay? Not if everybody chose to leave unilaterally. People w/o unions can still quit their jobs en mass
27 SkyguyB727 : That's not tru at all. Look at what Circuit City did. They laid off all of their top salespeople. Those employees were told that if they wanted to re
28 SkyguyB727 : No, it is not false. As I stated in my first reply, the employees do have recourse. It's called quitting. Do you think that an employee who complains
29 FFlyerWorld : However, do understand that there are a few - not many - airline management philosophies - that truly put their employees first and will ensure they
30 NWAdeicer : I will take a stab at this. Our contract is good thru 2010. The union does not want to rush the vote, once the vote is taken that's it. Why rush the
31 Mayor : So, obviously, the IAM has no confidence in their own position. I'll restate my position from before........I say the longer they wait, the less chan
32 T5towbar : This is this the airline business......... Seniority is EVERYTHING!
33 OOer : Delta management wants to the vote to happen now so that it will happen under the ruling of former NW director Read Van de Water. This will allow Delt
34 Mayor : First, I thought Van de Water's replacement has already been named and Second, didn't the AFA recently call for elections? Kinda throws a monkey wren
35 Bennett123 : The question is this "If you walk out of a job, will you get another", who is hiring at present?.
36 Thebatman : I wouldn't call myself anti-union or pro-union. But after many, many years of union representation, the ONLY thing a union has ever done for me is tak
37 Ocracoke : Somewhere else, someone brought up the very good point of how the IAM went ahead and started the merging process/procedures of US and HP employees ju
38 CokePopper : Wow, you actually stated something I agree with. It is a CONFLICT between the two groups. One that gets bigger and bigger the longer the AFA takes to
39 NWAESC : Not yet (officially). They've said that they're looking to do so later this summer. I can't speak about previous campaigns, since obviously I wasn't
40 CokePopper : Vote now and if the vote is to throw the AFA out, then the earliest would be 1stQ10 vote at the end of summer and if Delta f/a's vote the AFA in, the
41 Nwaesc : Interesting. At NW, we've been told to expect the SOC process to take anywhere from 18-24 mos. With 1 year in already (today?), that'd be another 6 m
42 Stratosphere : I have to admit AMFA was ill prepaired to handle what NWA threw at them. However, I can say with confidence that most if not all a/c mechanics today
43 CokePopper : that is why I stated first quarter 2010. Again at the earliest. Delta would like us all to be trained this summer. This way we are trained and ready
44 Panamair : In addition, if the economy does not show signs of life soon, there will be cuts in international capacity starting this fall/winter. And when that h
45 OOer : Northwest flight attendants just received their training dates, some go as far out as Spring 2010 which means that the 2 groups will not be flying tog
46 AirframeAS : I remember AS used to have an open shop when the c-check was there, way before AMFA ever set a foot on the property. The pay and bennies were the sam
47 WorldTraveler : Absolutely. As much as NW unions want to think they hold the cards, the history of labor /mgmt relations shows that companies really do hold the card
48 OOer : Actually you are incorrect. Even if representaiton issues were resolved today, any furloughs or reduction in force would happen to each respective ca
49 AirframeAS : So are you saying that DL furloughed employees are coming back way before the NW furloughed employees? If that is the case, that is one *bleeped* up
50 DALMD88 : I don't think that is going to happen soon. During the last round of meet and greets with Dir of Line Mtc, Lee Gossett, the question of new DL line s
51 WorldTraveler : You are living in a dream world if you think that DL will lay off its own employees if they ground NW's aircraft. The longer NW's unions leave the re
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