QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1804 posts, RR: 2 Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8052 times:
From Employee site:
Southwest can now fly to the place where “everybody knows your name!” Southwest has announced our low fares and flight schedule from Boston Logan International (BOS) beginning on August 16, 2009. We will begin service with ten daily nonstop flights: five to MDW and five to BWI. We are offering these new flights with fares as low as $89 one-way for MDW and $49 one-way for BWI. To view a complete list of our flights from BOS, visit southwest.com.
"Today’s announcement allows us to fully serve the Boston area,” said EVP Strategy and Planning Bob Jordan. “Our new Boston Logan service complements our current presence at T. F. Green Airport in Providence (PVD) and Manchester-Boston Regional Airport (MHT) in Manchester, New Hampshire. People in the central Boston area have been asking for Southwest Airlines service for many years, and we can't wait to introduce them to our legendary Customer Service, as well as our low fares, ontime flights, and no hidden fees."
As part of our expanded New England service, PVD and MHT Customers can fly to MDW and BWI for the same fare price as the new BOS service. Southwest also is offering fare sales from $49 to $99 for connecting service to approximately 50 destinations.
In addition to the ten daily nonstop flights to MDW and BWI, our new service out of BOS will offer direct or connecting service to more than 48 destinations, including: LAS, PHX, DEN, LAX, HOU, and SFO, just to name a few. We will operate from gates E1A and E1B in Terminal E and will have about 40 fulltime Employees.
Not only will Customers find our great online rates at southwest.com, but the site also hosts our Travel Guide where Employees and Customers can check out Boston travel tips posted by those who frequent the New England area. For an insider’s look into the new Boston Service, be sure to visit our blog—Nuts About Southwest—at www.blogsouthwest.com.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
Adam42185 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 395 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8023 times:
I CANT WAIT!!! I am very excited for WN to come to Boston. Are the tickets available for sale now?
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7971 times:
Quoting Adam42185 (Reply 1): I CANT WAIT!!! I am very excited for WN to come to Boston. Are the tickets available for sale now?
WN will release the schedule later today.
Boy, WN is not wasting time getting these schedules and airports set up! MSP, LGA and now BOS in 2009. I never saw that coming!
WN needs to update this btw on their website haha
· Boston via Manchester & Providence (Not Applicable)
· Miami via Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood
· Palm Springs via Ontario
· San Francisco via Oakland (Not Applicable)
· Santa Fe via Albuquerque
· Washington, D.C. via Baltimore/Washington (BWI) (Not Applicable)
Alex
[Edited 2009-04-13 23:27:59]
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7890 times:
Great to see WN finally enter three key US markets. By serving these important airports, Southwest is now much more appealing for many business travelers!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3643 posts, RR: 38 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7875 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 2): Boy, WN is not wasting time getting these schedules and airports set up!
No kidding. And if you remember, when WN first announced they'd be serving BOS they said it would be in the fall. It looks like they moved that up a bit if the service begins August 16. I'm sorry not to see PHL-BOS, though. Perhaps that will come when the hammerhead expansion at PHL is complete.
BTW, it's been 10 years (1999) since WN opened three stations in the same year.
ISP opened on 03-13-1999, RDU opened on 06-01-1999 and BDL opened on 10-31-1999.
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3643 posts, RR: 38 Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7852 times:
On a hunch, I went to southwest.com and looked at the pdf schedules. There's not a link for BOS, but every other city has pdf schedules that extend out to 10/30/2009. So I looked at MDW and BWI for 09/08/2009 through 10/30/2009 and the times of the BOS flights were listed.
Tsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 602 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7736 times:
How long will it be till WN starts there own version of the shuttle LGA/BOS. Seems that this would be right up their alley...with the exception of the lack of slots at LGA. What a big change in philosophy, not that long ago these airports would have never been in WN's route system.
RJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7705 times:
And as predicted, all new service these days all goes to their NON -HUBS of MDW, BWI and DEN
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3807 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7683 times:
I'm hoping that MHT and PVD, while not gaining much new service, won't lose much, either. I look at San Jose when Southwest entered SFO. Both stations happily coexist. I believe MHT and PVD have performed very well for Southwest, and will continue to do so.
Because of tolls, parking fees, and the hassle of just getting to Logan, many Southwest passengers will still favor MHT and PVD if they are roughly equidistant from those airports and BOS. Folks in Metro West and (of course) Boston proper will flock to Logan, because for them neither MHT or PVD make sense. I might expect that each station loses 1x to MDW and BWI, but not much else.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7650 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 8): I might expect that each station loses 1x to MDW and BWI, but not much else.
Thats exactly what happened, though it might be times with WN being mroe seaosnal too.
PVD and MHT will have 9x BWI and 3x MDW... thoguh in the case of PVD, the one they cut was the late night departure (9pm ish BWI and 8pm ish MDW) so its not much of a loss.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
SXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2011 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7611 times:
Glad to see WN flying out of BOS, as others have said who else would have thought that WN would be serving to MSP,LGA,and BOS. I wonder whats next?
I do have a question its a bit off the topic, but here it goes, Does anyone know what gates WN is going to use at LGA?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3643 posts, RR: 38 Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7596 times:
MHT also loses one of its' 2 daily nonstops to TPA effective Aug. 16.
Two other stations that are losing some flights are AUS (losing1 daily MCO) and DEN (losing 1 daily OAK, 1 daily MCI, 1 daily MCO, 1 daily PHL and 1 daily PHX)
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7449 times:
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 10): I do have a question its a bit off the topic, but here it goes, Does anyone know what gates WN is going to use at LGA?
Gate B4
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3807 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7179 times:
I hope the TPA reduction at MHT is one of their seasonal cuts. I'm still puzzled why MHT-DEN isn't on their radar screen. Southwest would never have to discount that route, I don't believe. They could yank MHT-TPA and make it a MHT-DEN instead...an instant money-maker (unless I've got the economics wrong somehow). It certainly isn't an operational issue keeping WN from that route.
Toltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7152 times:
Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 6): How long will it be till WN starts there own version of the shuttle LGA/BOS.
I really thought that was what WN was going to do with the LGA slots after they announced BOS. 7 daily flights might not be a full shuttle, but it sure could have put a dent in the market.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7048 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 8): I'm hoping that MHT and PVD, while not gaining much new service, won't lose much, either. I look at San Jose when Southwest entered SFO. Both stations happily coexist. I believe MHT and PVD have performed very well for Southwest, and will continue to do so.
Yes but how about OAK? Still a Top-Ten station, but OAK has lost a LOT of service to SFO.
I'm sure MHT and PVD will remain on-line stations for WN but I wouldn't be surprised to see them continue to be trimmed back somewhat -- IF Logan works well and expands for WN (which I suspect it will.)
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 11): MHT also loses one of its' 2 daily nonstops to TPA effective Aug. 16.
Two other stations that are losing some flights are AUS (losing1 daily MCO) and DEN (losing 1 daily OAK, 1 daily MCI, 1 daily MCO, 1 daily PHL and 1 daily PHX).
Gotta get those BOS-service airplanes somewhere! (I'm gonna check the SAN sked's asap...)
Mike, did you notice that on the schedule page at SWA.com, they now list when the next schedule window will open? (At least I saw that last week -- that the booking window would be extended on 4/14.
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3643 posts, RR: 38 Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6984 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 15): Mike, did you notice that on the schedule page at SWA.com, they now list when the next schedule window will open?
Yeah, I noticed that. Originally it was going to be extended on April 7.
I noticed there's now 2 SAN-BWI flights, but if I counted right SAN goes from 100 daily departures in the summer (July 6) to 97 daily departures in the Fall (looking at the Sept. 8 schedules)
I've looked at several cities and I haven't seen one yet that has a net increase in the total number of daily departures.
AUS goes from 51 to 50
SAT goes from 49 to 48
Both are losing 1 daily to MCO.
DEN goes from 117 to 112, losing 1 DEN-OAK, 1 DEN-MCI, 1 DEN-MCO, 1 DEN-PHL, and 1 DEN-PHX.
BNA drops from 82 daily departures down to 73. MDW, MSY, MCO, PHL, LAX, PHX, RDU, SAN, and TPA are all losing 1 freqency.
I don't have the breakdown for the cities below, but
MCO goes from 105 daily departures to 89.
TPA goes from 78 to 68
DAL goes from 132 to 130
HOU goes from 135 to 133
BWI goes from 160 to 158 (and that's with the new BOS flights)
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4099 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6847 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Looks like OMA is safe, except for losing a PHX flight.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6833 times:
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 4): ISP opened on 03-13-1999, RDU opened on 06-01-1999 and BDL opened on 10-31-1999.
Interesting that the last time they had 3 in a year, it was a big part of the last attempt at expansion into the northeast (the secondary airport strategy).
10 daily flights isn't many for two gates, especially for WN. I have to wonder whether there will be a second wave of expansion consisting of maybe 5 or 6 flights.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6833 times:
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 4): I'm sorry not to see PHL-BOS, though. Perhaps that will come when the hammerhead expansion at PHL is complete.
Agreed. This route has been literally SCREAMING for lower fares for nearly a year-and-a-half now.
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter): We will begin service with ten daily nonstop flights: five to MDW and five to BWI. We are offering these new flights with fares as low as $89 one-way for MDW and $49 one-way for BWI.
I wonder how long it will be until FL drops this route?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
EWRkid1990 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 168 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
Quoting RJNUT (Reply 7): And as predicted, all new service these days all goes to their NON -HUBS of MDW, BWI and DEN
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 16): noticed there's now 2 SAN-BWI flights, but if I counted right SAN goes from 100 daily departures in the summer (July 6) to 97 daily departures in the Fall (looking at the Sept. 8 schedules)
On 8/16, it appears that SAN is at 1x daily to BNA (as already mentioned), MCI is at 1x daily (from the usual 2x dly), TUS is at 4x daily (up from 3x), SFO is decreasing by 1 to 9x dly) and all the high frequency routes including PHX and OAK are at 12x daily which I think is a decrease. So, yes, SAN is definitely losing flights this "fall". (And 8/16 seems kind of early to be reducing flights.) But...
WN seems to be optimizing their schedule about every 2 months or less this year; these are the sked's that have been/will be optimized in 2009: 1/11, 3/08, 5/10, 6/28 and 8/16. It appears that 8/16 is VERY optimized, system-wide, since, as I joked earlier, they need to get those 3+ a/c for the BOS start-up. (Since this is an optimized schedule, the BOS turns are not simple add-ons but are already well integrated with existing flights.)
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6587 times:
Stl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 494 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6435 times:
STL lost some flights as well....PHX drops from 4 to 3, DAL goes from 8 to 7 and SLC goes from 2 to 1. I might have missed a few but those are the ones I noticed. I remember when PHX at one point had up to 7 or 8 flights a day to STL. I hate to see STL lose more flights but with the current economic conditions it does not suprise me.
Floorrunner From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6159 times:
They are not the traditional Hubs that we think of with other airlines. For example they don't have huge banks of flights arriving in a very short period of time to connect with each other several times, rather they have everything spread out throughout the day. In a sense they are hubs if you think of them as a tremendous amount of activity for them going on all day long. It really all depends on how you define the word hub. Southwest does not call them hubs.
25 Atrude777: You got them all. STL-CLE increases to 2 Daily however. PHX at it's peak was only Six daily I believe. Alex
26 Cubsrule: DL/ATL doesn't have banks either. Does that mean it's not a hub?
27 Enilria: This is also the same two destinations I was predicting just about a week ago in another thread. I think it shows a willingness/desire to take on AirT
28 Amwest2United: Not a real good schedule, They cross every flight, in from BWI out to MDW and in from MDW out to BWI, that can get bad when chicago gets bad weather.
29 Swatpamike: This keeps up I will never get back to TPA Cheers Mike
30 Iowaman: I remember six as well, but as each LAS flight was added (at the time PHX was at six LAS only had two) a PHX was dropped fairly close together.
31 LoneStarMike: Even more interesting is that according to this blog entry from the Dallas Morning News, Gary Kelly hasn't completely ruled out adding a 4th city in
32 Floorrunner: Where in my post did I say it is not a hub? The only thing I said about anything not being a hub was Southwest does not call it a hub.
33 Enilria: That's a good catch. I would take that to mean another city is imminent for Nov/Dec, but could slip to 1Q. Is it ATL? or MKE? or CLT? I vote for ATL.
34 LoneStarMike: As the blog entry noted, the last time WN opened a city in November was RNO in 1990 and AMA is the only city ever that has been added in December. Ho
35 SXDFC: Didn't WN serve DFW during its early years too? I could have sworn I have read that somewhere..
36 OPNLguy: We've had a handful of charters (and a diversion or two) into DFW in the past, but NEVER any scheduled service.
37 LoneStarMike: No. Never. The only time WN ever "served" DFW was through it's codeshare with ATA. ATA flew from DFW-MDW and from there you could connect to a WN fli
38 Cubsrule: CVG would be my vote as well. I think second would go to CLT. The attractiveness of MKE really depends on what DL does if YX liquidates. If DL opens
39 LoneStarMike: ATL, CLT and CVG have all been popular choices in other "where will the next new city be?" threads, so for each of those three cities I looked at the
40 DCA-ROCguy: That's really interesting, LoneStarMike; I would have picked ATL for sure as the likeliest next 'hole' in WN's map to be filled. Based on the local ma
41 Enilria: I've been thinking more about the announcement. I'm going to revise my prediction. I don't think they will cut MHT/PVD to MDW, but I think we are goi
42 LoneStarMike: True, and if you remember ORF was announced prior to 9/11 but was opened shortly after. And just prior to the announcement the speculation was either
43 FlyPNS1: In WN's case, after CVG/CLT/ATL and maybe MEM/MKE, they'll have to go back to smaller markets because there will be no big ones left. BTV and PWM wer
44 DCA-ROCguy: BTV and PWM were added not too long ago. Plus, ACY is starting this year with ATL service (and MCO). And MDT is now getting ATL service (at least seas
45 Enilria: Another question is what is going to be AirTran and JetBlue's reaction to this. It's a direct invasion of one of AirTran's best markets and jetBlue s
46 LoneStarMike: It's more like 2 flights. PVD-BWI goes from 10 to 9 and MHT-BWI goes from 10 to 9. Other short haul routes around the country (like BWI-ORF and BWI-B
47 Enilria: It is now, but lets be honest WN will have 20 flights at BOS in 6 more months. These guys will need to take a stand to keep from getting steamrolled.
48 LoneStarMike: Maybe so, but your original statement was (emphasis added) I think we are going to see an immediate cut in MHT/PVD to BWI. I'm thinking 3 or even 4 f
49 ScottB: There's not a whole lot that B6 can do, though, unless they're willing to open a new station at MDW. They don't have enough gate space at ORD to add
50 Dbo861: The main problem with CVG is gate space..there is none available now that Concourse C has closed. Concourses A and B at Terminal 3 are packed to the
51 Floorrunner: I have noticed over the years that you have very good instincts when it comes to Southwest. It will be interesting to see how well they do in their n
52 Exaauadl: Looks like MDW and BWI are becoming more and more traditional hubs
53 RL757PVD: Where are said gates at BOS? WN's gates are in Terminal E, the INTL terminal so space is limited. We will still see some additional BOS flights, not
54 Enilria: I think my general theme is that a bloodbath is coming in BOS. MHT/PVD are going to pay the price for that. We'll see. I think they have more options
55 RL757PVD: Hardly the case... BOS ALREADY has a low fare offerings AND better frequency on most of the routes WN has at PVD (MCO TPA FLL BWI CHI LAS) meaning th
56 Enilria: I would re-inventory your gates. There's a ton that aren't used now. That's all changed in the last 24 months. I think BOS is going to be like IAD wa
57 RL757PVD: Used vs Leased makes a big difference too... If B6 isnt "using" all of their gates, dont expect them to let WN come and take one, and Massport doesnt
58 DCA-ROCguy: I don't think WN will be able to run FL off of BWI-BOS for a number of reasons. Even if FL left the route, the BWI station would not "fall apart" or c
59 Enilria: WN had 148 flights from OAK the month before SFO started. Now they have 120. SJC is down from 80 to 75. SMF is also down about 10 from their peak. Co
60 ScottB: The old FL gates (E1C, E1D, E1E) in the former Terminal D are connected to Terminal E behind security. Currently, this area is closed off to passenge
61 Airbazar: Plenty of gates where? Don't think so. There's not that much room to expand at BOS. And just wait until the Winter months and corresponding delays st
62 LoneStarMike: In the case of OAK the reductions are a good thing, IMO. Before WN returned to SFO, they were trying to operate those 148 OAK flights out of 11 gates
63 ScottB: Actually, the two are connected. They're just not convenient. However, if WN were to start using E2A & E2B, the shops in the main section of the term
64 Enilria: Quoting ScottB (Reply 60): Agreed. And if YX goes away, WN will eventually add MKE. FL's long-term challenge is that they need to grow, but most of th
65 RL757PVD: Factor in that BOS has premium seat offerings on every one of those routes, whereas PVD has premium offerings on very few (only CHI when talking nons
66 ScottB: Paid F demand on most routes outside of transcons is very low. The vast majority of the people sitting up-front are either upgrades or non-revs. VX i
67 FlyPNS1: I don't really think there is anything FL can do to stop or even slow down WN. The only option for FL is to add more connecting options to help the B
68 Iowaman: It is? Most of the Q1 loss was because of a large write down in fuel hedges. While IMO DEN isn't performing all that well, there is no doubt in my mi
69 Adam42185: Interesting, I did not know that Southwest completely disregarded the plane bank theory even at the airports for which they have a large market share
70 Iowaman: While that is very true that WN doesn't have any "banks" like for example NW at MEM and DTW have, there is an obvious focus on BWI, MDW, LAS, PHX fli
71 DCA-ROCguy: Agreed. A lot of the BWI-Florida flights, along with BWI-DAY, BWI-CLT, BWI-LAX and BWI-SEA are going to be weaker without feed from BOS. That just doe
72 Cubsrule: NW certainly used their FIS-configured gates for domestic flights at times besides the international rush-- both before the rush and after. Those gat
73 Enilria: I will remember that quote. If by threatened you mean endangered then yes. If you mean angered then no. Remember what happened in SWF. I know that wa
74 Iowaman: Other than the fact they are going into larger airports than before 9/11, what are they changing in to?[Edited 2009-04-16 19:06:18]
75 Knope2001: About 20% of AirTran's traffic between BOS and BWI is connecting or thru to destinations beyond BWI. AirTran Totals (both directions together) First h
76 Enilria: They are becoming more and more concentrated around "hubs". They are de-emphasizing and deleting the traditional "hopping" routes. They are more ofte
77 UN_B732: I have to join the folks that say PHL-BOS should exist. I know US would try to get them with their established reputation, but that market is dying fo
78 ScottB: Please note that I did not say "in future." If Southwest were to add flights in key B6 markets from BOS, we'd see a response. With one daily round-tr
79 JA: High costs relative to what? As long as the employee is highly productive, their cost is not that big of an issue. With the all hands on deck culture
80 DCA-ROCguy: WN has always been a tough competitor. They took BWI away from USAir (later US Airways) in less than a decade. Much of their MCO presence was taken fr
81 ScottB: Allegiant's strategy is very, very different from any strategy that WN has pursued. Southwest has never operated stations with only a few weekly flig
82 PHLBOS: Bold added: Nice little typo there. IMHO, WN could easily pound FL on this route for its NO CHECKED BAG FEES POLICY (for the first 2 bags, it used to
83 VictorKilo: I looked at the 2008Q2 DOT market share and yield figures, and looking at markets with at least 135 one-way passengers per day (arbitrary, but assume
84 Cubsrule: One other thing to keep in mind is the impending WS codeshare-- which was intended to focus on (and grow) MDW, at least at the beginning of the relat
85 ChrisNH: I've always thought that Soutthwest would do pretty well flying to the Canadian Maritimes...Halifax specifically. Sure, it's a small station, but so i
86 Enilria: FL added another BWI-BOS flight in today's OAG load. I'm hearing WN will add 2 or 3 more in the next round of BOS adds. What do you define as the nea
87 DCA-ROCguy: IMHO, WN could easily pound FL on this route for its NO CHECKED BAG FEES POLICY (for the first 2 bags, it used to be for the first 3) ALONE. This is a
88 LoneStarMike: Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it will happen anytime in the near future. Tom Belden of the Philadelphia Enquirer posed that question during the
89 PHLBOS: I'm not 100% sure of this but there may be illegal for a carrier (not just FL) to charg a bag fee on one domestic route but not on another. If airlin
90 DCA-ROCguy: Last I checked, 1991 comes before 1993. Maybe I should've said US started to pull down its BWI hub before WN came in. That's clearer. My point is that
91 ScottB: Yes, they started a pull down of BWI before WN entered the market, but even in 2000, BWI was still considered (by US Airways) to be a hub and was had
92 Cubsrule: WN cannot fly their own metal to Canada-- for now.
93 N801NW: Did BOS ever finish the Terminal E renovation? When I was last there in 2003 they had just finished the departure side but the arrivals side was behin
94 Enilria: To be clear, I think B6 will do something to make it clear that they will fight off any LCC who covets BOS. I don't think they are going to announce
95 ScottB: Their options for a response at this point are somewhat limited. They can't add much BOS-ORD without sacrificing JFK-ORD or LGB-ORD which are probabl
96 Cubsrule: If someone helps them out with gates (and/or if they move to Terminal 3), they can.
97 PHLBOS: Time to write a letter to WN regarding this; additionally, I will also COMMEND them for not jumping on the checked bag fee bandwagon (covered in anot
98 Enilria: ...and you are saying that couldn't/won't happen? I'm not sure that means they won't fly PHL-BOS. I think immediate plans is vague. To me "immediate
99 Cubsrule: While BOS is farther from PHL than is BDL, I have to wonder why PHL-BOS would work if PHL-BDL did not. The market is larger, but there's also more co
100 RL757PVD: WN seems to have struggled in BDL, being down almost 33% from their peak activity just a few years ago. BDL will have no PHX or FLL service come this
101 Cubsrule: I might argue that PHL was lower-hanging fruit than was FLL or PHX. PHX is L-O-N-G (and, to an extent, duplicative of LAS), and FLL has DL flying it.
102 RL757PVD: I said come this summer.... PHX... even MHT has PHX and they are a fraction of the market that BDL is, PVD even had 2x prior to the fuel spike and ec
103 Cubsrule: I think that's an accurate assessment, and, to be honest, I'm not sure it bodes well for BOS, because while there is certainly loyalty to US and DL a
104 Jetbluefan1: That's true - JFK/LGB-ORD seem to be more crucial than BOS-ORD. I don't think we'll see JetBlue drop its 4 JFK-ORD flights (which are very high yield
105 PHLBOS: A better comparison to PHL-BOS would be either PHL-PVD and/or PHL-MHT. BDL's a little to far to capture travelers along/inside the 495 corridor. Actu
106 Cubsrule: It does. Amtrak offers significantly more frequency in the Philly-New York-Boston corridor than in the Philly-New York-Springfield corridor, though.
107 LoneStarMike: I think part of the problem with BDL-PHL was it was kind of short - only 196 miles. Before WN, there were only 117 daily pax on the route. After WN,
108 Cubsrule: That was the entire problem-- WN didn't get as much stimulation as they'd hoped. I guess that, given the similarities between BDL, PVD, and MHT, I'm
109 RL757PVD: I wonder how far down PHL is on B6's city list. What ba perfect chance for them to do a 'shot across the bow" to WN by launching PHL-BOS with like 5x
110 LoneStarMike: I think one reason might be due to Boston's sheer size. These are the 2007 population estimates for each of the 4 metro areas. (I think 2008 estimate
111 Cubsrule: I'd agree that the Boston market is larger. It's the similarity between Hartford and Springfield (add ~600,000 for a combined total of 1.8 million us
112 PHLBOS: Personal take: IF PHL was ever on B6's list; they crossed it off once it became known that WN was coming. Look how quickly FL's PHL routes shrunk dur
113 RL757PVD: Providence MSA and Hartford/Springfield MSA's are similar in size. The difference lies in the stronger business community in Hartford. Through the la
114 Cubsrule: I think that's right, because like MSP and LGA, it's more about offering WN passengers access to BOS than about offering BOS passengers access to WN.
115 Enilria: I'll go back to my original comment. I think the fact that WN is poo-pooing BOS-PHL is probably because the PHL market is not very good for them... .
116 RL757PVD: If I were B6, Id be covering these bases to the extent practical to prevent WN from gaining nay kind of foothold... esp PHL and PHX.
117 Cubsrule: What that means, though, is that they are limited to connecting BOS with strong WN cities, which likely means no BOS-PHL. Unless/until they develop a
118 Enilria: Of course those are all hubs for other airlines which is exactly why they aren't flying them. I am a little surprised B6 isn't flying PHX, but I thin
119 Cubsrule: But if you are right that they need a decently strong base on one end of the route or the other-- and I think you are-- they'll need to do much bette
120 Enilria: We basically agree. It's not their best choice. It won't do great, but it's kind of like when you are in the check-out lane at the grocery and there
121 Cubsrule: Yes, and I think WN will shortly be in a better position gates-wise. Are there any gates at PHL? Obviously, B6 could use Air21 to get in, but that's
122 LoneStarMike: I guess WN being down almost 33% from their peak activity a few years ago refers to the number of daily departures? I'll agree with you on that point
123 Enilria: I have heard from many people that they simply decided BOS was a better option since fuel was staying cheap and they became less concerned about stag
124 ScottB: I think the reasons why PHL-BDL didn't work boil down to geography. If the traffic isn't heavy, Philly-Hartford only takes about three hours to drive
125 RL757PVD: PVD stopped being an alternative for Boston YEARS ago. Everything PVD has now is a result of their own market and WN to BOS will not change any of th
126 Enilria: I thought I remembered it. I think they'll be back. I disagree. They are basically unable to expand at JFK because of slots. That's why BOS is the ne
127 RL757PVD: Because 9x daily is underserving the market.... I agree the timing is no coincidence, however, pretty much every WN market with more than 8x has expe
128 Cubsrule: OTOH, US seems to want to sop up all of that capacity with international flying (see the moaning about DL and A East not so long ago). Is the traffic
129 PHLBOS: Don't you mean available gates at JFK? IIRC, slots are only an issue (for any carrier and not just B6) at LGA not JFK. All that tells me that while P
130 Enilria: US can't block an int'l gate beyond the window from 4 to 7pm. There simply aren't many int'l ops outside that window. While it would suck to not have
131 Cubsrule: On a route like PHL-BOS specifically, I'm not sure it can be...
132 Enilria: That's a fair point, but if they are willing to operate off two gates they can checkerboard US's widebodies and get a 5pm flight.
133 PHLBOS: Thanks for the info. That's why I placed the IIRC in my earlier post.
134 Enilria: No problem EWR is also under the same program.
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From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1804 posts, 
(I'm gonna check the SAN sked's asap...)
Agreed. This route has been literally SCREAMING for lower fares for nearly a year-and-a-half now.
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