And we'll start off with MAN shaking sales team. Quote from the article = "The new team, led by William and Aidan, is already in advanced discussions with several long-haul and low-cost airlines about adding capacity to Manchester Airport over the coming eighteen months and beyond. As the economy begins to recover, we know that services to the Far East and new destinations in the United States are particularly attractive markets for many airline partners"
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15174 times:
They've been broadcasting the same message for the past few years though. Lo-cost talks are probably only with FR and U2. Long-haul wise, not too much apart from NZ, AA to JFK and Air Asia X if were talking 18 months.
3 to 5 years opens out a bit to encompass along the likes of BOS/MIA/2nd ORD for oneworld, don't think we'll see too much to the States from Star Alliance (pending whether LH is interesting in having a small operation here), and for Skyteam perhaps DL to DTW; don't expect each route though to begin in that period - it may take 7 to 10 years.
For the Far East, it's down to CX and CA but it may be 3 to 5 years for those routes to start.
There is also the unknown factor on what VS will decide to do with their 787s, and how many will theoretically be "based"; again this is looking like a 3 to 5 year timescale.
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15127 times:
I can see LHR having a bit more of a major hub but what may hinder expanding BD long-haul is the presence of the other Star Alliance carriers; they'd have to eek out new routes that don't go on the toes of their partners. At MAN, it's more relatively straight forward.
Anyway, the provisional March stats are out and about. And no, I'm not going to work out load factors, at least not for now.
Where do we want to start..shall we go Middle East? EK again had a 7% fall but still carried 43000 passengers in the month, QR was down a one-way plane load (i.e. 280 pax) and EY was up a one-way half plane load (i.e 180 pax). But SV was quite impressive - 1700 pax which is 600 more than last year (it's getting nearer to 100 pax carried per flight) and LN almost reached 1000 pax (the smaller aircraft, greater frequency strategy seems to be paying off).
For the major Eurohubs, I'm surprised to see BRU register a slight rise despite FR going to notBRU. CPH saw a large drop (I don't think that we can say not having 4 afternoon flights operating can explain it), HEL a nice 15% route to over 7500 pax. CDG was down 12% , FRA down 19% but MUC was up 9%, AMS down 11%, ZRH up 9% but disappointingly IST was down 10%.
SIN was down 38% to 10000 pax. Collectively, the Pakistani routes were down 8000. And remembering the wonder of the BLL route, it had a good month with over 2000 pax (up 300)
FR corner (someone else work out the loads please!): CRL 3434 pax, MRS had 96 pax (48 pax per service?!) , BRE 5204 pax, HHN 3386 pax, NRN 6808 pax, SNN 8152 pax, BGY 2962 pax, GRO 3683 pax. The "shared" DUB had a neglible rise.
For the States, the only route growing was LAS; the falls for the others = ATL 14%, ORD 62%, JFK 47%, EWR 21%, MCO 10% and PHL 3%.
EBBRbased From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 14151 times:
Quoting David_itl (Reply 4): I'm surprised to see BRU register a slight rise despite FR going to notBRU
Any idea on how profitable or loss making FR could be on MAN-CRL with an average loadfactor of around 50-60%? They don't have the business model to operate with this kind of loads, right? Yields can't be great either with plenty of 15 GBP all-in fares, usually available up to a week before departure. Quite amazing they'll go daily on this route as from June 5th.
After FlyBE's structural cutbacks between MAN and BRU on either the afternoon or evening flight, they've now taken out the evening rotation for the remainder of the IATA S09 season.
It looks like Brussels Airlines is maintaining 4x daily flights, and also the morning rotation on Sunday (SN2173/4) is back since the start of the Summer season.
GayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 14083 times:
SN are promoting heavily around the corportate travel companies, and are doing nicely on their codeshare with 9W for India bound passengers fromn Manchester. AA also route passengers through BRU using the SN/AA codeshare.
SN also have strong African connections don't forger, which avoud hell holes like CDG!
Rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1998 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13678 times:
Only if Manchester well specifically the Cheshire regions around - Wilmslow /Alderley Edge and Mobberley are collectively lifted and moved to their rightful place in the Surrey/Hampshire borders and they take the airport with them will you see an elite class service.
EBBRbased From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13674 times:
Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 10): are doing nicely on their codeshare with 9W for India bound passengers fromn Manchester
Do you have figures to back this up? Even though the 9W code is present on the SN (de)feeding flights (SN2184/73), I'd assume that 9W also route a lot of passengers through LHR thanks to their interline agreement with BD.
Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 10): AA also route passengers through BRU using the SN/AA codeshare.
You're right, but do not overestimate the revenue potential for the operating carrier of the (de)feeder flight. SN obviously get's peanuts from AA for these passengers, so the revenue potential is probably very limited.
Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 10): SN also have strong African connections don't forger, which avoud hell holes like CDG!
...which is probably why SN added a nightstop on the MAN-BRU route. In the past SN put their code on FlyBE's early morning MAN-BRU flight, but
EBBRbased From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13566 times:
Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 15): It's quite depressing when an airport/airline can't attract 32 business passengers a day... I was suggesting the A318 like they are to be using from LCY.
If it would be so easy, wouldn't many airlines take advantage of so-called niche markets, throw in an A318CJ and fly around with full-Business configured aircraft!?
With a capacity of around 30-35 passengers, you need a strong (local!) market to get such a flight profitable as you only have 30-35 passengers to pay for your direct operating cost (and I can imagine that the cost per seat must pretty high on an A318CJ from LON/MAN to NYC).
Your peak flights need to be profitable enough to compensate for low-demand off-peak flights, off-peak seasons etc.
Myt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 74 Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13332 times:
Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 15): It's quite depressing when an airport/airline can't attract 32 business passengers a day.
Well considering BA's B767-300's only actually have 24 business class seats, which they couldn't even fill as BA1502 and BA1503 at MAN, then you are actually talking about an increase in J of 25%! D'oh!
Their 763's long haul are 24J/24W/141M.
Also I hear an Easyjet A321 is ferrying up to MAN on the 1st May. Is this a new bird for Monarch?
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13036 times:
Quoting Myt332 (Reply 17): which they couldn't even fill as BA1502 and BA1503 at MAN
Did they even try filling them though? I've heard stories that the LGW-JFK service by them is just as "successful" at attracting that class of passenger, but I don't see any movement toward scrapping that service though.
I'd love to know how many J class passengers are transported each day from MAN to LHR, and where they are flying to; I'm sure they said 75% of MAN-LHR pax are transferring so even having only 5% of them connecting in J class would see about 35000 passengers may potentially use a route available ex-MAN. In fact, it we were to consider the numbers connecting long haul J class on LH, AF, KL and BA alone, it may make interesting reading.
Myt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 74 Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12860 times:
Quoting David_itl (Reply 20): I've heard stories that the LGW-JFK service by them is just as "successful" at attracting that class of passenger, but I don't see any movement toward scrapping that service though
Well I'll tell you facts, not stories. Tomorrow BA2173, LGW-JFK, a B777-200, is currently looking like this: There are 6 seats available in FIRST out of 14. In Club World there are 9 available out of 48 (double what MAN had). World Traveller Plus has 7 available out of 40 and World Traveller has 24 available out of 124. The day after there are 5 available in FIRST, 7 available in Club, 6 available in WTP and 14 left in Traveller. I mean to me it looks to be doing very well! I just looked two months down the line at a random date and FIRST has only 2 seats left!
Quoting David_itl (Reply 20): I'm sure they said 75% of MAN-LHR pax are transferring so even having only 5% of them connecting in J class would see about 35000 passengers may potentially use a route available ex-MAN
Well if we take tomorrow for instance then MAN-LHR with BA has the following departures and don't forget this is a good day with seven departures and not five.
A total of 1218 seats and although not all seats are taken, we'll assume they are. 75% of that is 913 (for connecting passengers) and 5% of that (premium) is 45, or thereabouts. Not exactly stella is it? Granted they are just rough numbers but it's what's happening basically. Have you ever seen the Terraces Lounge at MAN? It's dead most of the time.