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TAP To Fly LIS-BSB/GIG/GRU Overnight  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7583 times:
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It could be just an atempt to obtain better yields by attracting premium travellers as well as to increase loads.

TP is about to change the schedule for their LIS-BSB / LIS-GIG / LIS-GRU flights (the BSB/GIG/GRU-LIS flights are overnight) which will provide to travellers another way to reach (in special thru BSB and GIG) Brazil early in the morning.

Here's the new schedules

TP185 LIS 2320 GIG 0520 (+1) - Daily - A332
TP186 GIG 1625 LIS 0600 (+1) - Daily - A332

TP197 LIS 2345 GRU 0545 (+1) - Daily - EQV (A332/A343)
TP198 GRU 1620 LIS 0605 (+1) - Daily - EQV (A332/A343)

TP4173 LIS 2330 BSB 0510 (+1) - 6x weekly
TP170 BSB 1640 LIS 0555 (+1) - 6x weekly

It should begin by Sep/10, except for LIS which is expected to begin before.

Also, with such change, TP will begin to fly to both GIG and GRU daily from LIS (plus 2x weekly from OPO) reducing it capacity in up to 40%.

[Edited 2009-04-16 11:24:02]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7319 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
It should begin by Sep/10, except for LIS which is expected to begin before.

So if LIS begins before 10 Sep, what actually does begin at 10 Sep, OPO?



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7286 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
TP185 LIS 2320 GIG 0520 (+1) - Daily - A332
TP186 GIG 1625 LIS 0600 (+1) - Daily - A332

TP197 LIS 2345 GRU 0545 (+1) - Daily - EQV (A332/A343)
TP198 GRU 1620 LIS 0605 (+1) - Daily - EQV (A332/A343)

TP4173 LIS 2330 BSB 0510 (+1) - 6x weekly
TP170 BSB 1640 LIS 0555 (+1) - 6x weekly

1. That's an awefully long time to keep the aircraft on the ground in Brazil, no? Arrive at around 5:30, don't depart until 4 in the afternoon - that's 11 hours!

2. Any reason for the odd flight number on LIS-BSB? I suspect a typo but wanted to be sure  Smile

Kleinsim


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7260 times:
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Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 1):
So if LIS begins before 10 Sep, what actually does begin at 10 Sep, OPO?

My mistake, i LIS-BSB begins overnight before Sep 10.

Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 2):
2. Any reason for the odd flight number on LIS-BSB? I suspect a typo but wanted to be sure

Seems to be an "extra" flight. It's not clear if BSB will continue in the future.

Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 2):
1. That's an awefully long time to keep the aircraft on the ground in Brazil, no? Arrive at around 5:30, don't depart until 4 in the afternoon - that's 11 hours

Yes, agree. But be in mind that TP now have 1 plane available the entire week, and reducing GIG and GRU flights, they create almost a second one. At the current economic situation, TP is just trying to improve their revenue, reducing also expenses.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7232 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
TP is about to change the schedule for their LIS-BSB / LIS-GIG / LIS-GRU flights (the BSB/GIG/GRU-LIS flights are overnight) which will provide to travellers another way to reach (in special thru BSB and GIG) Brazil early in the morning.

They actually are returning to the schedules they had in the past. TAP for years had a whole bank of flights which left LIS to Brazil around 11 pm.

Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 2):
1. That's an awefully long time to keep the aircraft on the ground in Brazil, no? Arrive at around 5:30, don't depart until 4 in the afternoon - that's 11 hours!

Both the American and European carriers have been operating flights to South America with this schedule for years. Flight arrives in SA early in the morning, sit there all day, and fly back in the evening.

They do the same thing on flights from Europe to JNB.


User currently offlineRicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7102 times:

How are load factors on TP Brazil flights? I know GIG and GRU do well, but how are smaller destinations doing such as REC, BSB and FOR?? Is there business traffic on these routes or is it mainly VFR traffic, because it seems to me (as an outsider) that TP may be overdoing it in Brazil. Could some of these aircrafts not be better utilized on perhaps startup routes to Asia, or extra flights to LAD, which I believe are one of TP's best performing routes, both with pax and cargo as Angola is booming now, or even a new north american destination that TP previously talked about possibly starting such as IAD, BOS or YYZ???

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7027 times:

Thanks for the news.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Here's the new schedules

TP185 LIS 2320 GIG 0520 (+1) - Daily - A332
TP186 GIG 1625 LIS 0600 (+1) - Daily - A332

TP197 LIS 2345 GRU 0545 (+1) - Daily - EQV (A332/A343)
TP198 GRU 1620 LIS 0605 (+1) - Daily - EQV (A332/A343)

TP4173 LIS 2330 BSB 0510 (+1) - 6x weekly
TP170 BSB 1640 LIS 0555 (+1) - 6x weekly

The change to overnight operations was long overdue as it leads to much higher yields and loads. This is the right move and therefore TAP will improve its performance in these key markets.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Also, with such change, TP will begin to fly to both GIG and GRU daily from LIS (plus 2x weekly from OPO) reducing it capacity in up to 40%.

There is capacity reduction, but better schedule and timetable, of course, planes used for these routes will also be underutilized because they will be iddle during the day. But as I said, this move was necessary and TAP will be able to extract better yields on these markets.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8379 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

I have mixed feelings about this but I'm hoping for the best. The main reason for the daylight flight was aircraft utilization. LIS is situated in a unique position that allows TP to operate these routes with only 1 aircraft. They may not attract big yields from connecting passengers but they make up for it with lower costs and high aircraft utilization.

Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 2):
1. That's an awefully long time to keep the aircraft on the ground in Brazil, no? Arrive at around 5:30, don't depart until 4 in the afternoon - that's 11 hours!

That's probably why they are doing it at this time. TP is reducing frequencies and parking planes. So if the aircraft are going to be parked at LIS where there's really no space, park them in BSB/GRU/GIG instead and take advantage of the potential higher yields.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 4):
Both the American and European carriers have been operating flights to South America with this schedule for years.

Not all American and European carrier operate this way. I know that AA operates daytime flights to/from Brazil. And I believe KL does too. It all depends on the market requirements and other operating factors.

In other TP news, it is now being reported that their loss for 2008 will be 320 million Euro. Ouch! The news just keeps getting worse. They spent 67% more on fuel in 2008 than in 2007. The PGA pilots are now strinking, demanding less work and more benefits. Good to see the unions are in tune with the real world  Smile I can't understand why the Government doesn't set them straight.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6786 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
I have mixed feelings about this but I'm hoping for the best.

I am personally very much in favour of this move which I think came way too late.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
LIS is situated in a unique position that allows TP to operate these routes with only 1 aircraft. They may not attract big yields from connecting passengers but they make up for it with lower costs and high aircraft utilization

AMS is in a less favourable hub position and KL also operates GRU daylight. It is not a matter of hub location, but mainly of aircraft utilisation. The point is that the high aircraft utilisation entailing daylight segment compromises yields and loads.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
Not all American and European carrier operate this way. I know that AA operates daytime flights to/from Brazil. And I believe KL does too. It all depends on the market requirements and other operating factors.

AZ, BA, DL, CO, LH, LX, AF, etc operate red-eye flights. All of TAM flights to Europe are red-eye. Almost all carriers operate red-eye. The only exceptions are:

1) KLM,

2) AF (this because it already operates GRU and GIG red-eye anyway, only its second daily flight to GRU and GIG operates daylight),

3) IB (also because it already operates GRU red-eye, only its second daily flight operates daylight).

4) AA again operates one of its seasonal flights to GRU daylight because all its other 40 or so regular weekly flight operates all red eye: ie MIA-GRU, GIG-MIA, DFW-GRU and JFK-GRU red-eye.

5) KE (GRU-LAX operate daylight, but from May 09 will face DL GRU-LAX red-eye which will probably kill KE).

I must say I personally was surprised that TAP kept for such a long time operating in GRU/GIG daylight. It is crystal clear that red-eye flights attract higher yields and loads.

Airlines such as LH/LX deploy 3 daily flights to GRU as red-eye and it is therefore not surprising that LH/LX shows the best performance in premium traffic in Brazil among European carriers.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Also, with such change, TP will begin to fly to both GIG and GRU daily from LIS (plus 2x weekly from OPO) reducing it capacity in up to 40%.

In the case of GRU capacity will decreasey slightly less because GRU will see a mix of A332 and A343. This means GRU will be the only destination in Brazil to see TAP A343, since they are now devoted to JNB and MPT operations.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8379 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6757 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
I must say I personally was surprised that TAP kept for such a long time operating in GRU/GIG daylight. It is crystal clear that red-eye flights attract higher yields and loads.

No one doubts that but I think you missed my point regarding hub location though. The question is, do you think TP will steal customers from LH/LX/AF/BA with this move towards red-eye flights? I'm not quite sure. The reason TP could make the daylight flights work is because they have a strong local demand and using a red-eye from any other carrier between Brazil and Portugal implies backtracking significantly to another European hub thus defeating most of the benefits of the red-eye flight. If I have to depart LIS at 2pm to go catch a red-eye for FRA-GRU, I may as well depart at noon and go non-stop. That's my point.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
The question is, do you think TP will steal customers from LH/LX/AF/BA with this move towards red-eye flights?

I do think so. I can guarantee that to many premium fliers timetable is of key concern, and in this connection red-eye operation is a prerequisite.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
The reason TP could make the daylight flights work is because they have a strong local demand and using a red-eye from any other carrier between Brazil and Portugal implies backtracking significantly to another European hub thus defeating most of the benefits of the red-eye flight. If I have to depart LIS at 2pm to go catch a red-eye for FRA-GRU, I may as well depart at noon and go non-stop. That's my point.

I fully appreciate your reasoning. However, I think perhaps you should invert your thinking. In fact to the majority of Brazil-Portugal premium traffic, the option was always TAP because of the number of frequencies and because otherwise you would need to backtrack to other hub such as MAD, CDG, AMS, etc. Therefore the fact that no red-eye schedule was available was of less concern for TAP exactly because as you explained this market had high density.

However, to the majority of TAP feeding traffic it had to rely on fare sensitive public because connecting with TAP to Brazil entailed boarding a flight at 6am in LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, etc. This was a horrible schedule and scared away many business and corporate travellers.

With the new timetable TAP will be better prepared to capture premium demand in other markets and it now will compete head-to-head with the schedule of its rivals.

Rgs,

[Edited 2009-04-17 06:55:48]

User currently offlineOffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 886 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 6363 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
I can't understand why the Government doesn't set them straight.

With a PS government and Euro elections just around the corner, I suspect they probably won't.

This overnight schedule will be interesting to see what doors it opens. JNB is another schedule that seems to change quite a bit - first a day flight, then a night flight, one that stops in MPM....

Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 5):
REC, BSB and FOR?? Is there business traffic on these routes or is it mainly VFR traffic, because it seems to me (as an outsider) that TP may be overdoing it in Brazil. Could some of these aircrafts not be better utilized on perhaps startup routes to Asia, or extra flights to LAD, which I believe are one of TP's best performing routes, both with pax and cargo as Angola is booming now, or even a new north american destination that TP previously talked about possibly starting such as IAD, BOS or YYZ???

I would suspect NAT FOR REC is majority tourism, SAO RIO BSB more business and VFR. LAD is served twice daily - 1 x DT and 1 x TP.

New routes for TP will be WAW HEL and MOW. No Asia, no N. America.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6137 times:



Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 2):

1. That's an awefully long time to keep the aircraft on the ground in Brazil, no? Arrive at around 5:30, don't depart until 4 in the afternoon - that's 11 hours!

Is the layover long enough for them to use the same crew in both directions? If so, that's a big cost saver.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6114 times:
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Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 5):
How are load factors on TP Brazil flights? I know GIG and GRU do well, but how are smaller destinations doing such as REC, BSB and FOR?? Is there business traffic on these routes or is it mainly VFR traffic, because it seems to me (as an outsider) that TP may be overdoing it in Brazil. Could some of these aircrafts not be better utilized on perhaps startup routes to Asia, or extra flights to LAD, which I believe are one of TP's best performing routes, both with pax and cargo as Angola is booming now, or even a new north american destination that TP previously talked about possibly starting such as IAD, BOS or YYZ???

Loads were in March:

GIG 65% GRU 61% SSA 69% FOR 64% BSB 54% CNF 52% NAT 67%

LAD performs better with 78%

I don't see new routes right now, by the fact EWR nowadays is one of the worst stations with loads closer to 57%

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
In the case of GRU capacity will decreasey slightly less because GRU will see a mix of A332 and A343. This means GRU will be the only destination in Brazil to see TAP A343, since they are now devoted to JNB and MPT operations

The difference is just 4 seats more for the A343. But for Y passengers, the A332 is a better plane with AVOD PTV while the A343 offers just old IFE without PTV. The A332 is a better plane for the passenger.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6093 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
At the current economic situation, TP is just trying to improve their revenue, reducing also expenses

Thanks for posting. I also heard that some of the other destinations will see a different schedule with afternoon departures out of LIS (to allow many more connections) and late night departure from Brazil. It seems like you said TAP is trying to move upmarket with quality timings and fewer seats. Very sensible.



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5924 times:
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Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
Thanks for posting. I also heard that some of the other destinations will see a different schedule with afternoon departures out of LIS (to allow many more connections) and late night departure from Brazil. It seems like you said TAP is trying to move upmarket with quality timings and fewer seats. Very sensible

I have received the other routes schedule and you're right, seems that they are trying to move to get their connections out of GIG, GRU and BSB, and to deal better with the O&D markets of Northeast. This would allow also more comfortable connections for people from Europe to reach Brazil. My only doubt right now is, TP network was based on early morning departures out of LIS and early morning arivals also. Do they will offer late night flight good connections ? At least for BSB i believe they need it , but GIG and GRU, can deal with O&D.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5737 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
GIG 65% GRU 61% SSA 69% FOR 64% BSB 54% CNF 52% NAT 67%

REC??

Will TP suspend flights to CNF and BSB is loads factors don't improve?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5592 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 16):
REC??

Sorry, i forgot, REC 60%

As requested by my source, the info come from Alves, and any contact can be made thru tap.estatistica@gmail.com

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 16):
Will TP suspend flights to CNF and BSB is loads factors don't improve?

I believe with less flights to GIG and GRU, CNF and BSB may improve. Just need to say that if the flights went down to 7 weekly last month, results for GIG and GRU would be around 88%
(i'm just considering total pax divided by 31 flights, and of course not considering any possible passenger that would not consider a problem the reduced number of flights)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8379 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5491 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
I do think so. I can guarantee that to many premium fliers timetable is of key concern, and in this connection red-eye operation is a prerequisite.

I'd say reliability factors very highly as well. TP doesn't have a very good reputation for on-time performance, and that's to say nothing about lost luggage, however luggage is not usualy an important factor for business travelers. Don't get me wrong. I'm a skeptic by nature but I really hope this move works out.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
Is the layover long enough for them to use the same crew in both directions? If so, that's a big cost saver.

LOL. You're not familiar with the TP employee culture are you?  Smile
Even if legaly possible, there's no way the unions would forego a nice layover in the tropics. Look at what they're doing right now at PGA, and that's for "regional" short haul flying.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
I don't see new routes right now, by the fact EWR nowadays is one of the worst stations with loads closer to 57%

That's not unusual. EWR loads are the lowest around this time of the year, as well as late Fall. Loads to EWR are very seasonal and IIRC, this is only the first year that they're not operating with the smaller A310 (or is this the 2nd year?). It also doesn't help that TP's fares out of EWR are some of the most expensive. Any search for a fare to LIS from any N.American city, always shows TP as one of the most expensive options.


User currently offlineAntonioavelar From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5482 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):
That's not unusual. EWR loads are the lowest around this time of the year, as well as late Fall. Loads to EWR are very seasonal and IIRC, this is only the first year that they're not operating with the smaller A310 (or is this the 2nd year?). It also doesn't help that TP's fares out of EWR are some of the most expensive. Any search for a fare to LIS from any N.American city, always shows TP as one of the most expensive options.

Still, TAP did some gigantic promotional campaigns regarding NYC, with return flights from 385€ to 588€, I believe. Some months ago they began a campaign with the 500€ range return ticket, later they brought the fare down to the 400€ range, and more recently to the 300€ range (not sure if the campaign is already over). I got to book a LIS-EWR-LIS rotation in 13FEB (LIS-EWR 14FEB and EWR-LIS a week later), and the full fare was about 530€!

Anyway, it didn't work that much, as we can easily see by looking at the yields. But the EWR route will be back to high occupation rates with the spring, I'm positive about that.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5435 times:
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Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):
That's not unusual. EWR loads are the lowest around this time of the year, as well as late Fall. Loads to EWR are very seasonal and IIRC, this is only the first year that they're not operating with the smaller A310 (or is this the 2nd year?). It also doesn't help that TP's fares out of EWR are some of the most expensive. Any search for a fare to LIS from any N.American city, always shows TP as one of the most expensive options

It's the first year with the A332 (only) to EWR, last year we saw a mix of A310/A332. But last year they obtained loads like 81% in average for April and May, so i believe 50% is very low.
Also compared to last year, EWR face the major drop in the number of passengers, more than 40%.
TP should rethink about their pricing policy as it's nice to carry good yields, but not when we're talking about 50% loads.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8379 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5363 times:



Quoting Antonioavelar (Reply 19):
Still, TAP did some gigantic promotional campaigns regarding NYC, with return flights from 385€ to 588€, I believe.

That's still a lot higher than what you can get on other European carriers. Their biggest problem is that they don't yet have code-sharing agreements with CO at EWR so they are very exposed to the O&D market to EWR.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
It's the first year with the A332 (only) to EWR, last year we saw a mix of A310/A332. But last year they obtained loads like 81% in average for April and May, so i believe 50% is very low.

Last year was a stellar year for TATL traffic because the Euro was so strong against the Dollar, and the effects of the economic downturn had not yet reached Europe.


User currently offlineDirkou From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

With the new posting of 320 Million EUR loss in 2008 (as per Parpublica, their owner - the "institution of the portuguese government to deal with state owned airlines) it seems TAP is now starting to struggle.

It's the start of their end in my opinion. They a strategy of growth which made all of us think everything was on the right direction but we now see that this growth is artificial and there is no demand for it. Now I would like to see what happens when they start to return some A330/A320: as a state owned airline are they alllowed to send employees home?


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5242 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
Not all American and European carrier operate this way.

I never said ALL flights to South America are operated this way or even MOST flights are operated this way.

However, to certain destinations such as EZE, UA, AA, DL, AF and CO operate ALL their flights this way with an overnight flight to EZE and an overnight flight back to their hubs.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8379 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4924 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 25):
You're right, however, other airlines are showing reductions of 10-20% on TATL traffic, less than what TP is showing.

That's not a fair comparison. Other carries have cut frequencies and downsized or parked aircraft. Now if you look at total passengers transported, TP has had one of the smallest drops of all European carriers. That also highlights the difficulties that smaller nich carriers have during these times. While AF/LH/BA/etc can easily cut available seats by switching to smaller planes or cutting a few additional frequencies out of hundreds of flights without much impact to their customers, smaller carriers like TP who only operate 1 daily flight into most citites and sometimes not even, and only have 1 type of long-haul A/C, have no choice but to continue to operate those flights a less that desirable load factors. That just goes to show you how good the A310 was for TP.


25 LJ : I wouldn´t be suprised if TP also cancels the nightstopper at AMS and/or BRU. The reason for these nightstoppers was to be able to provide connectio
26 BuyantUkhaa : Uh oh, I really hope that will not happen - I take those flights a lot...
27 CityofAthens : Just on the side-subject of carriers on the ground at GRU, BA is currently operating a daily shuttle between GRU and EZE, in between the early arrival
28 LipeGIG : I don't understand your point but be in mind, TP lost about 5,000 passengers to North America which in fact is a lot. Probably BA, LH and AF lost mor
29 BOAC911 : Exactly! And they've also had a hybrid operation (mix of daylight & red-eye) in the past.
30 Post contains links Hardiwv : This is not correct. Capacity the A343 has 15% more capacity overall. Only on business class there are 12 additional seats. The A343 are also fitted
31 C010T3 : I really don't think that's very accurate. TP's seat maps show another picture...
32 Hardiwv : TAP seat maps are very clear, and I have just provided the information as given by TAP official website and other seat map websites. Anyway, it is no
33 Airbazar : I would, especially the AMS flight. Intra-Europe flights are still TP's bread and butter. Business passengers favor early morning departures and even
34 Hardiwv : This is not always the case, especially where you have less density of O&D business traffic. For example, KL operates AMS-LIS twice a day with depart
35 BuyantUkhaa : For BRU this will mean that the late LIS-BRU will likely be maintained, due to the European Commission attracting a fair share of passengers (at leas
36 LipeGIG : This is not correct. A332 now offers 264 seats and the A343 offers 268 seats. TAP information is not updated. Would be almost impossible to see loads
37 Hardiwv : I am sure the AMS non-EU business demand created by corporations such as Shell, Unilever, ING, Philips, warrants the evening departure more than the
38 LipeGIG : Any reduction of network in Europe is good for cost-saving, but may hit a little the flights to Brazil, specially northeast.
39 Hardiwv : Oh dear...if TAP really fitted its A332 planes with 264 seats it would be really low-yielding, holiday configuration... For example, AF seats 219 pax
40 LipeGIG : Agree with you. But let's say AF carry 219 pax with 40C while TP carry 264 with 24C. Can we change 16C (more/less 3 rows) with 6 rows of 8 seats (48)
41 C010T3 : I'm not questioning the greater capacity of the 343. I'm just saying that the seat map from the GDS show another picture.
42 Hardiwv : As I said, TAP A332 configuration is probably compared to charter operators...Another example: LX seats 196 pax on its A332... Rgs,
43 LipeGIG : There's no doubt about this, and this is the plane they use for all routes in Brazil. Again, i think it's too much in terms of Y for routes like GIG,
44 Airbazar : Do you have the number of passengers for March of last year? I'd be far more interested in passenger numbers than LF. Last year EWR was being operate
45 LipeGIG : LIS-EWR ... mar/08 .... 6.632 LIS-EWR ... mar/09 .... 3.921 EWR-LIS .... mar/08 ... 6.266 EWR-LIS .... mar/09 ....3.637 See above, even if being more
46 WINGS : If I'm not mistaken Easter in 2008 was in March, while Easter was in April this year. I'm sure that this would have an influence on the overall numbe
47 LipeGIG : It should, but not so strong and i believe you agree with me. You may have three or four days of full flights each bound, but the numbers show a huge
48 Hardiwv : GRU gest the A343 and the A332. TAP focus is on Y pax and the configuration of the A332 is therefore more appropriate for the current scenario where
49 WINGS : Correct. While Easter numbers might have an influence, it by no means justifies the huge decrease in overall number of passengers transported. In my
50 Post contains links Hardiwv : TAP announced today a loss of EUR 229 million with VEM (Varig Engenharia e Manutenção). VEM has 3,000 staff. http://economia.uol.com.br/ultnot/lusa/
51 BuyantUkhaa : You mean their total loss was €229m with VEM results already included, or is it €229m loss to be added to TAP's own results?
52 LipeGIG : And GIG also... eff. Oct 25 daily A343 to GIG, daily A332 to GRU, but i hope they use the A332 always to GIG as passengers in both classes says it's
53 Hardiwv : The loss should be added to TAP's own results...I agreed, very bad picture. This was the right move, I was surprised GIG was not along with GRU in th
54 Post contains links and images LipeGIG : As i mentioned, the A332 is more friendly to passengers. I don't know if A343 Business is AVOD, i know there's no PTV (and for consequence AVOD) on Y
55 Hardiwv : KLM has updated IFE/AVOD system for its entire MD-11 and B747 fleet, and it is a sizeble fleet. Horrible Y class. I was not aware TAP A343 had not be
56 Post contains links Airbazar : This doesn't add up. The news I read today said that TP lost EUR 280 million in 2008, of which EUR 33 million were attributed to VEM. According to th
57 Hardiwv : " target=_blank>http://jn.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Econ...07673 The numbers do add up. VEM's loss was EUR 229 million since 2005 which was the year VEM
58 Offloaded : On the OPO question, I think OPO is simply too close to LIS. TP operate up to 11 flights a day each way between OPO and LIS. TP fares are common rated
59 Airbazar : Sorry, i took your previous comment to indicate a loss for 2008, and not a loss since aquisition. The overnight flights will attract more business cl
60 Hardiwv : I think TAP fleet should remain as it is, no introduction of more business seats. Due to the market downturn yields have gone down and airlines are h
61 LipeGIG : It's not easy neither cheap, and TP use their resources a lot. KL probably has better conditions to park one aircraft after the other. Difficult to s
62 Post contains links Hardiwv : According to news report TAP expects to repeate the 2008 results in 2009 and even increase traffic to Brazil in +5%. http://economia.uol.com.br/ultnot
63 LipeGIG : I don't think so, your point was just business demand. I just tried to show there's more than just business demand, and if it's so strong, TP for sur
64 Hardiwv : Lipe, pls see my quote below. I said demand (pax, premium and cargo). Rgs,
65 LatinThug : Good evening guys, I have two questions. Isnt it going to be a LONG wait at LIS for pax arriving from Helsinki, Moscow and Warsaw for the connections
66 C010T3 : Those flights were created in order to feed the network to the Northeast AFAIK.
67 LipeGIG : As well as previous operations to GIG/GRU/BSB. The fact is, in the case of GIG and GRU, TP can rely on Portugal and just a few connections. BSB is an
68 C010T3 : I meant that the focus is on flying tourists to the beaches in the Northeast.
69 Hardiwv : As mentioned above, HEL, Moscow and Varsaw will serve to feed traffic to Northeast Brazil since they already have excellent connections to GRU and GI
70 Andaman : Yes AY operate holiday charters to FOR and REC from HEL, via LPA in winter. Finns love their winter breaks in sun, hopefully TP is able to show nice
71 Hardiwv : Thanks for confirming my information, AY deploys the B757 HEL-FOR/REC. I think HEL will be a very interesting market for TAP to explore allowing conn
72 LipeGIG : Not for GIG and GRU. Both have what the other markets doesn't have: VFR and business with Portugal. If REC and SSA are 20% from Portugal, i believe R
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