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Fractional Aircraft Ownership Costs?  
User currently offlineAviogenex From Mexico, joined Mar 2002, 67 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13828 times:

Hello everyone,

I´m doing a project about aircraft fractional ownership programs and one of the key components I´m still missing are the prices (per aircraft per share) and hours (per aircraft per share) offered by the different providers. The companies I´m trying to get the info from are NetJets, NetJets Europe, FlexJet and Citation Shares. Can anyone point me towards the right directions as to where I can find this information?

Thanks very much in advance.

AVIOGENEX

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13778 times:

Most companies are pretty hush about this info unless you're really serious and call for a consult. I have seen on NetJets website that for the Marquis Jet Card the starting price is about $135,000 a year not including taxes and fees. Pretty pricey any way you slice it, but it's justifiable to many. Not sure about the others, though.

User currently offlineTPA36R From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13691 times:

Without calling and offering information (company name, reason, needs) you wont find much.

For a rough example...

My research says a GIV, just to be airborne and paying the bills, is at about $5k. Consider the repo to and from, any catering, landing fee's, handling, etc.... Your talking about $15k-20k/per hour. That isnt including the premium for the company your chartering from.


User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13678 times:

It's outrageously expensive to operate a private jet - so bad that when we did calculations last year we checked our numbers again because we just couldn't believe that it was so bad. Just for fun we ran a regression on operating cost on the number of espresso machines on the aircraft - wasn't that great of a predictor Big grin. What TPA36R said regarding pricing sounds about reasonable.

Kleinsim


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jan 2006, 4186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13618 times:
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There is no list price, every contract is negotiated individually. Your best bet is to either find customers willing to talk, or contact the companies directly and somehow convince them to give you a range of the cost.

NetJet's smallest share (1/16) for its smallest jet (Citation Ultra, I think) is about $400K, with a monthly cost of $15K and an hourly cost of $1.5K, for example.

Quoting TPA36R (Reply 2):
My research says a GIV, just to be airborne and paying the bills, is at about $5k.

Fractional hourly operating cost can be quite a bit lower than $5K, but of course the monthly fixed cost isn't chump change either ($40K or so).



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13504 times:

I work in that industry and have the pricing of the 3 major programs. Please contact me privately and I will be happy to send you the information you are looking for. Also, please specify if you are looking for fractional ownership costs, jet card costs and charter costs. It would be good to know the size or type of aircraft. Are you looking at Hawkers, Challengers, Falcons, Gulfstream's, Citation's?

Cheers,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13476 times:

You won't find that info here, only calling, and they'll give you the info only if you're serious.. sorry

I fly for one of the fractionals


User currently offlineAVIOGENEX From Mexico, joined Mar 2002, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13298 times:

Thanks guys for your replies, I appreciate your time.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15836 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13284 times:

This is a bit tangential to the subject but there seems to be a good knowledge base here.

What would the chance of success be if a fractional ownership company were to not use business jets but used airliners? A nice 737 Classic would cost under $10 mil and MD-80s are even less. Even with the cost of refitting them with a VIP interior and aux tanks the cost would still come in under most biz jets and offer more comfort. Such a plane could be used by an individual and/or have enough seats to by useful to groups as well. The only disadvantage would be fuel costs but if you could build something as comfortable as a GV at a Learjet cost, would it work?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13262 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
What would the chance of success be if a fractional ownership company were to not use business jets but used airliners? A nice 737 Classic would cost under $10 mil and MD-80s are even less. Even with the cost of refitting them with a VIP interior and aux tanks the cost would still come in under most biz jets and offer more comfort. Such a plane could be used by an individual and/or have enough seats to by useful to groups as well. The only disadvantage would be fuel costs but if you could build something as comfortable as a GV at a Learjet cost, would it work?

While it is true that aircraft ownership cost may be lower if you take a really old 737 and compare it to a new Learjet, I doubt it would work. Here is why:

- Higher maintenance costs
- Higher overflying and handling costs (most are based on MTOW)
- Higher fuel costs (more powerful engines, etc.)
- Restrictions of airfields (I would think 737s need longer runways than Learjets)

So, unless people are willing to pay the premium I doubt it would work. Most of the people flying business jets do so because of the privacy and convenience, not necessarily because of comfort alone. You don't need a 737 to offer the privacy and convenience. Note however that Airbus and Boeing do offer their A320 and 737 respectively in business jet variants and Embraer also offers their ERJ as a business jet - so it does work to an extent. However, if you want to save on aircraft ownership cost just use an older business jet.

Kleinsim


User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13251 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
What would the chance of success be if a fractional ownership company were to not use business jets but used airliners?

It is done all the time, but there are several disadvantages too:

1) You are now stuck with airports that can handle airliners. Please don't forget that there are many, many more airports in the USA that do not have airliner service than those that do. Also don't forget that if you are talking about a B737 or MD80, then you are talking about a larger airport than those that serve RJs or Commuter Turboprops. (KASE is a big one that comes to mind - no aircraft with a wingspan of 100ft or more) Frequently when the big airport is all jammed up with traffic, the little reliever down the road will let you jump in the jet and go.

2) Its not just the fuel cost, MX is a big factor when you’re talking big iron. Let's not forget landing fees, and FBO fees are going up quite a bit too.

3) That interior is not cheap. Think many, many multiples of a standard airliner interior cost wise. Everything is custom made. You’re putting an awful lot of money into an old airframe.

4) Speaking of which, converted airliners don't hold their value the way Gulfstreams do.

5) Lots of times, it is better to "blend in" at the FBO ramp. That Gulfstream G550 looks like a top of the line Mercedes Benz. That converted B737 looks a little more like a Hip Hop tour bus. You tell me what the Chairman of the Board would rather bee seen in. Sure, the bus has more room (and Playstation and HBO) but it's a pain to park, drinks gas like crazy, and is really hard to valet park when the Chauffeur is on holiday.



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15836 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13239 times:



Quoting C680 (Reply 10):
1) You are now stuck with airports that can handle airliners.

That was the other big issue I thought of. Careful choice of airframe could help though.

Quoting C680 (Reply 10):
3) That interior is not cheap.

Right. But could it still come in under the cost of a biz-jet given the cheaper airframe?

Quoting C680 (Reply 10):
4) Speaking of which, converted airliners don't hold their value the way Gulfstreams do.

Wouldn't that be an advantage? Let the original airline owner take the big depreciation hit.

Quoting C680 (Reply 10):
That converted B737 looks a little more like a Hip Hop tour bus.

That is a good point. And being rich isn't so fashionable anymore. But as long as there are rappers there will be bling.  goldmedal 



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13209 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Wouldn't that be an advantage? Let the original airline owner take the big depreciation hit.

He is talking about converted airliners. In other words, your airliner would depreciate quicker once refitted to the business jet layout. Of course, from a lower base but still...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
But as long as there are rappers there will be bling.

rofl

Kleinsim


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