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Will We See Mainland US-GUM?  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7828 times:

I always thought it was weird that CO had a hub that could not be reached easily by another CO hub. I wonder if the problem was that Air Mike doesn't have aircraft sufficient for the route. The largest range aircraft that Air Mike has is the 764ER which is 5625 nm(the aircraft could barely operate LAX-GUM) I am surprised that they have not make a move on LAX.

I wonder if it is possible to fly a non Air-Mike plane to GUM. A 762 could barely fly IAH-GUM(Range 6590, IAH-GUM 6471). The 772 could cover both IAH and EWR to Gum.

Will CO eventually make a move?


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

When the 787s arrive I would definitely expect a LAX-Guam flight, especially considering the huge Military build up on Guam that will see tens of thousands of Marines and their dependents making the move from Okinawa to Guam.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7749 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
especially considering the huge Military build up on Guam that will see tens of thousands of Marines and their dependents making the move from Okinawa to Guam.

Yeah.. I remember the Houston Chronicle press release about that...but will we ever see a EWR-GUM?



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7701 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 2):
but will we ever see a EWR-GUM?

Highly doubt it. Definitely LAX-GUM and possibly IAH-GUM, but it seems rare for GUM-EWR. Maybe they would do EWR-LAX-GUM.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7705 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
I wonder if the problem was that Air Mike doesn't have aircraft sufficient for the route.

Continental Micronesia does not have any aircraft of its own. All of its aircraft are owned by Continental Airlines. Continental dedicates specific aircraft to fly the routes because there are additional maintenance requirements i.e. frequent power washing of the engines to prevent corrosion from exposure to salt.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
When the 787s arrive I would definitely expect a LAX-Guam flight, especially considering the huge Military build up on Guam that will see tens of thousands of Marines and their dependents making the move from Okinawa to Guam.

It is possible, but I would doubt it. Even though it is a major military base, Guam has only 175,000 people. There are no military bases in LA any more.

I think that if the traffic increases to GUM, CO and NW/DL would increase service or capacity to existing hubs at HNL and NRT.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7685 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 4):
It is possible, but I would doubt it. Even though it is a major military base, Guam has only 175,000 people. There are no military bases in LA any more.

While there may be no military presence in LA proper, Camp Pendleton, Twenty Nine Palms and even Yuma are not too far.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7604 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
While there may be no military presence in LA proper, Camp Pendleton, Twenty Nine Palms and even Yuma are not too far.

If there are any large numbers of people traveling from these bases to Guam, the military charters a MAT flight into Miramar or Yuma. The commercial airlines mostly fly individuals on leave. HNL and NRT are actually very good hubs for flights to GUM with many connections to the US. I doubt that CO could fill a 787 from LAX on a consistent basis.


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7553 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 4):
There are no military bases in LA any more.

While a small base by USAF standards, Los Angeles Air Force Base is a United States Air Force Base located near LA, in El Segundo, California

Maybe 3 or 4 times weekly flights to LAX or IAH, as others have noted HNL NRT and others work well for the Guam area.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7524 times:



Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 7):
While a small base by USAF standards, Los Angeles Air Force Base is a United States Air Force Base located near LA, in El Segundo, California

I stand corrected. The US military has an office building in the LA area. And they are building a new pedestrian bridge too!!!


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7496 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 8):
I stand corrected. The US military has an office building in the LA area. And they are building a new pedestrian bridge too!!!

Don't mention it. Facts are stubborn things...

Actual the US DOD has other facilities all over the LA metro. That is not really related to traffic to Guam mind you, but there is still plenty of DOD presence in the greater LA area.

As others have noted mil charters already cover much large scale TDY traffic but with PCS and leave traffic I could see several flights a week that bypass HNL for either LAX or IAH on CO. The feed should be there from the Guam hub but will there be enough revenue to go with it?



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineSANAV8R From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7473 times:

I can see CO flying LAX-GUM. There are also plenty of connections to/from most of the major cities of Japan, Manila, and Micronesia.

If I'm not mistaken didn't CS fly to LAX several years ago. I some how recall seeing a DC-10 with Air Mike titles. Or was that just the routing of aircraft through the system from HNL before they removed the "Continental Micronesia" titles?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
While there may be no military presence in LA proper, Camp Pendleton, Twenty Nine Palms and even Yuma are not too far.

As well as MCAS Miramar and MCRD San Diego, in addition to all of the Navy operations in the San Diego area and also Oxnard. Much closer than Yuma.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 4):
There are no military bases in LA any more.

Edwards AFB, NAS Point Mugu up the PCH in Ventura. China Lake Weapons is not too far away either.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7378 times:



Quoting SANAV8R (Reply 10):
If I'm not mistaken didn't CS fly to LAX several years ago. I some how recall seeing a DC-10 with Air Mike titles. Or was that just the routing of aircraft through the system from HNL before they removed the "Continental Micronesia" titles?

While I'm pretty sure CS has not done GUM-LAX nonstop, the DC10 was used for GUM-HNL-IAH before CO got any of the 767s.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7313 times:

I was stationed on Guam in the early 80s and at that time BN ran a 747 from LAX (could have been DFW) to GUM. The loads on that flight were never more than about 120 passengers. Pan Am had a similar flight that started in MNL came through GUM and then went to HNL and on to LAX. That flight did very well because of the MNL/GUM traffic.

There just isn't a market big enough to warrant non stop service. The military traffic does exist, but it's all low yield traffic. Devoting assets to that route would be not the best use of them since there are other markets where a better yield and revenue mix could be obtained.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7302 times:

How long would the LAX-GUM routing without any stops...or is that even possible?? I always assumed an HNL stopover would be required.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7280 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
How long would the LAX-GUM routing without any stops...or is that even possible??

LAX-GUM is 5291 NM, while LAX-SYD is 6507NM.


User currently offlineCush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7091 times:

If you sit at IAH and watch the flights from HNL arrive, you will notice many of our country's service men and women coming off the aircraft in full military gear. I assume they are using this flight to get home from either GUM or HNL. =)


Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
User currently offlineJeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7056 times:

According to continental's website they fly a 767 from IAH-GUM non stop.


God bless through Jesus, Jeff
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7012 times:



Quoting Cush (Reply 15):
I assume they are using this flight to get home from either GUM or HNL

Unless they go on vacation wearing fatigues.  Smile

Quoting Jeffrey1970 (Reply 16):
According to continental's website they fly a 767 from IAH-GUM non stop.

I don't think it is. That is flight 1, which goes IAH-HNL-GUM.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7012 times:



Quoting Jeffrey1970 (Reply 16):
According to continental's website they fly a 767 from IAH-GUM non stop.

It stops in HNL.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6985 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
The loads on that flight were never more than about 120 passengers.

They would probably only fly the route 3-4 days a week, similar to other Mike routes.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineBabyFat310 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6545 times:

I reckon there isn't enough demand for mainland U.S.-GUM to fill anything larger than a 762ER a few times per week. The total population (military and civilian) on the island of Guam is only about 140,000, not enough to sustain daily nonstops on any aircraft or 3-4x/week nonstops on a 763ER, 764ER or 772.

The only viable options are from GUM to a Western U.S. hub 3-4x/week, e.g.:
UA 763ER GUM-SFO-ORD
DL 763ER GUM-LAX-SLC
CO 762ER GUM-LAX-IAH
AA 763ER GUM-DFW
DL 763ER/332 GUM-SLC-ATL
US 762ER GUM-PHX


User currently offlineSANAV8R From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

While there may not be enough traffic for LAX-GUM alone, they could fly it as (IAH)-LAX-GUM-MNL. There would be plenty of passengers. Unlike PR which operates the same routing, CO could sell tickets between LAX-GUM. With a 772 of course because of the immense amount of cargo.

I wonder if CO would expand their Pacific ops from GUM when they come into *A, owing to the larger number of Pacific carriers in *A vs. ST. GUM while U.S. territory has different visa regulations could provide a good transit point around the Pacific.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6323 times:



Quoting Jeffrey1970 (Reply 16):
According to continental's website they fly a 767 from IAH-GUM non stop.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
That is flight 1, which goes IAH-HNL-GUM.

There are actually 2 IAH-GUM direct flights:

CO 1/2 does IAH-HNL-GUM-HNL-IAH on 764/767

CO 6/7 does IAH-NRT-GUM-NRT-IAH on 772/738



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6071 times:



Quoting SANAV8R (Reply 10):
If I'm not mistaken didn't CS fly to LAX several years ago. I some how recall seeing a DC-10 with Air Mike titles.

Back when Continental still flew DC-10s, the did all major maintenance on all their widebodies (DC-10s and A300s) at LAX. This was a holdover from the days when CO had its headquarters in LA and also because they flew to Australia as well in those days. They maintained all their narrowbodies at Denver Stapleton.

In the 1990s, CO went through a process of decommissioning the Denver maintenance facilities, and building new facilities at IAH and EWR. As far as I know, they no longer do any maintenance at LAX.


User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6053 times:

why should there be a nonstop flight? regular business/tourist to demand nonstop flights are almost non existent. I realize everyone wants nonstop flights from and to everywhere, but this seems like one of the worst decisions a money making business could make

25 AADC10 : There is no reason for a US mainland to GUM flight. The Pacific Islands are small and poor. You can get there through HNL and there are just not enoug
26 Viscount724 : Although CO 6/7 are published with a single flight number, they're really connecting flights as there's an equipment change at NRT to a 737-800 for t
27 SANFan : Perhaps, especially if and when the 787 is flying, CO might think outside the box a bit and consider GUM-SAN-IAH; forget LAX and connect 2 major milit
28 Post contains links STT757 : No they're still plenty busy at LAX: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...=0&phscl=1&scene=7017842&encType=1 And they still have their Hangar at DE
29 AirframeAS : So this would make it a 10 hour flight? And..... I know this is off the topic but is a passport needed to enter Guam? I know some U.S. territories re
30 SurfandSnow : The thing about LAX is that a vast majority of its traffic is O&D. For a LAX-GUM flight to work, you'd have to have a lot of Guamanians headed to LA a
31 Cospn : No passport to enter GUM via HNL, however you need proof of status to re-enter HNL and the Mainland (US CBP agent on duty at the depature gate) Greenc
32 CALMSP : its always surprising how many pax are heading to GUM from LAX flight 3. A non-stop out of LAX to GUM 4x a week should certainly be viable. Not only a
33 USAirALB : Whoa..in my opinion, thats brilliant! Hopefully CO thinks outside the box, too.
34 CALPSAFltSkeds : More than likely, a SAN-GUM flight would be a connection via HNL. SAN-HNL would probably be a 757 and, if ever started, be after HNL-NAN starts to ge
35 CALMSP : I would love to see 737-800 flights to HNL from SFO/SAN......that would be great.........but thats just me being goofy!!
36 Dispatchguy : WAAAYYY Back in the 80s, Len Morgan, a BNF B747 Captain, wrote in one of his columns in Flying Magazine "Flying LAX-GUM Nonstop" in a B747-SP. One of
37 FlyASAGuy2005 : Now there's an idea. I appreciate the post! NAB Coronado, NAS North Island and NB San Diego. I'm sure the injection of GSA fares (not sure how much t
38 CALPSAFltSkeds : Better yet, how about 739ER equipment in a subfleet to fly HNL-SAN/LAX/SFO/PDX/SEA, All connecting to NAN and GUM. The 739ER has more seats and a lon
39 FlyASAGuy2005 : I remember flying Song SJU-MCO and part of the flight had no IFE due to satelite loss, etc so I can see the same issue.
40 Lightsaber : I'm going to 2nd this. Just because the route could be done does not mean it would make money. There isn't the normal drivers for 'premium' traffic.
41 BMI727 : Precisely. And what airline in their right mind would deploy their new expensive 787s on a low yield route so soon? Those new planes need to be on th
42 USAirALB : I think if CO really wanted GUM-SYD, they would have kept it when the 764's arrived. However, its something they could look into...
43 ThePalauan : Whoa, whoa, whoa... And where's this statement coming from? From your perspective, we're nothing but dots on a map. From the islander's perspective,
44 DeltaL1011man : I would say the only airline that can make n/s from the US to GUM work would be CO. I would say the best way to do it is IAH-LAX-GUM on a 787-8. This
45 CALPSAFltSkeds : Hi Palauan: I've read your threads on GUM and wonder what you think of the following two proposals? Take flight 72/73 and reduce it from daily to 3 t
46 MasseyBrown : A GUM-CEB flight might work as well, adding to the GUM-LAX loads. Cebu pax would probably be receptive to an alternative connecting point.
47 CALMSP : I'm surprised that CEB has not been an option for us at this point............
48 ThePalauan : The times you have proposed for 3 and 12 remind me of about 11-12 some years ago when CS had 903/906 and 933/934 on HNL-GUM. They were both night fli
49 CODC10 : The reality is that CO is probably already handling the vast majority of US-originating traffic to Guam and Micronesia. By all accounts, GUM is a cons
50 Cospn : 'Then again... If we ever allow cabotage, PAL already has a leg-up. All they'd have to do is have their 744s (currently routed MNL-LAX/SFO-GUM-MNL) st
51 USAirALB : It makes me feel sad to say this, but I wonder how long it will be until GUM will surpass CLE as a CO hub .
52 AznMadSci : In terms of what? Number of flights?
53 STT757 : I wouldn't be surprised if CO handled more passengers through MCO than Guam, it's not that kind of hub.
54 ThePalauan : Probably never. Unless the local government finds something else besides tourism to invest in, we'll be nothing more than a vacation spot. The visito
55 CALPSAFltSkeds : Well, it takes most of two units to fly IAH-GIG and flying it with a 762 could either come from an upgrade of other services from 762 to 764 (IAH-EZE
56 2travel2know : One interesting fact about GUM is that it's the only U.S. airport destination which has open skies with China (check past topics on this forum). If UA
57 MasseyBrown : The military presence won't generate that much commercial traffic from uniformed members and their families, who travel mostly on organic or charter
58 STT757 : I don't know, they might have more flights to/from MCO than they do Guam. Also a big chunk of the MCO flights are on 216 seat 757-300s. MCO-CLE 4x da
59 ThePalauan : The only Navy unit I'm aware of that's here is the Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 25. We do anticipate perhaps another squadron with the buildu
60 MasseyBrown : Sounds as if CO is having a little trouble getting HNL-NAN-GUM permission from Fiji. In the Air Pacific - Alaska codeshare case, CO filed a supporting
61 Jgarrido : "All generalizations are..." The fact is the current flight to/from HNL is full every time it leave/comes in. I just took the flight last week. I che
62 CALMSP : I'm anxious to see what flight times would be as well..........gotta be an afternoon departure.....but that would eliminate connections off EWR.
63 STT757 : The Navy moved 3 or 4 Los Angeles class attack subs to Apra Harbor from Honolulu, the Army is going to established an air defense artillery battalion
64 MasseyBrown : True, but an AM departure from EWR to support your afternoon HNL departure is a better marketing idea anyway. That may be easier said than done, thou
65 CALPSAFltSkeds : Are you talking of HNL-NAN-GUM? I put the below together on the NAN thread. For twice a week service requires 1 aircraft for two full days plus grabb
66 Tsnamm : Well the downgrades are coming, both EWR/MAD and EWR/AMS are to be downgraded to 752's this summer...
67 CALMSP : the bird typically comes from BRU...........or some other european inbound.........so an afternoon departure is necessary.
68 CALPSAFltSkeds : It looks like 15 EWR-HNL comes from GVA arriving at 1200. Could it also turn some days off flight 14 from HNL at 1130? Notice that its not a Pacific
69 CALMSP : yeah, BRU will be seeing the 777 this summer, so it will have to come elsewhere. this has always been a 35/200 configuration.
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