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OAG Changes 4/17/09: WN  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

I will update the others later, here is WN...

This appears to all take effect in August

ABQ-MCO 2rt to 1
ABQ-PHX 9rt to 8
AUS-MCO 2rt to 1
BDL-MCO 3rt to 2
BNA-MCO 5rt to 3
BNA-MDW 7rt to 6
BNA-RDU 4rt to 3
BNA-SAN 2rt to 1
BNA-TPA 4rt to 3
BOI-RNO 2rt to 1
BOS-BWI 0rt to 4
BOS-MDW 0rt to 4
BUF-MCO 3rt to 2
BUF-TPA 1rt to 1
BUR-LAS 12rt to 11
BUR-SJC 8rt to 9
BWI-MCO 8rt to 6
BWI-MHT 9rt to 8
BWI-PBI 2rt to 1
BWI-PVD 9rt to 8
BWI-TPA 5rt to 4
CLE-MCO 1rt to 0
CLE-STL 1rt to 1
CMH-MCO 3rt to 2
CMH-TPA 3rt to 2
DAL-STL 7rt to 6
DAL-TUL 6rt to 5
DEN-MCI 5rt to 4
DEN-MCO 3rt to 2
DEN-OAK 3rt to 2
DEN-PHL 3rt to 2
DEN-PHX 8rt to 7
FLL-MCO 5rt to 4
FLL-MDW 4rt to 3
HOU-JAN 3rt to 2
HOU-MCO 5rt to 3
IAD-TPA 2rt to 1
IND-JAX 1rt to 0
IND-LAS 3rt to 2
IND-MCO 2rt to 1
IND-PHX 2rt to 1
ISP-PBI 2rt to 1
ISP-TPA 3rt to 1
LAS-LAX 13rt to 12
LAS-MCI 4rt to 3
LAS-MCO 2rt to 1
LAS-ORF 1rt to 0
LAS-PDX 4rt to 3
LAS-TPA 2rt to 1
LAX-SJC 11rt to 10
LIT-PHX 0rt to 1
MCI-MCO 3rt to 2
MCI-SAN 2rt to 1
MCO-SAT 2rt to 1
MDW-PHL 7rt to 6
MDW-RDU 3rt to 2
MDW-SEA 4rt to 2
MDW-SJC 2rt to 1
MDW-TPA 5rt to 3
MDW-TUS 2rt to 1
MHT-TPA 2rt to 1
OAK-SAN 13rt to 11
OAK-SNA 8rt to 7
OMA-PHX 3rt to 1
ONT-PHX 8rt to 7
ONT-SJC 6rt to 5
PBI-PHL 2rt to 1
PDX-SMF 5rt to 6
PHL-PIT 4rt to 3
PHL-RDU 5rt to 4
PHL-TPA 3rt to 2
PHX-SAN 12rt to 11
PHX-STL 4rt to 2
SAN-SFO 9rt to 8
SFO-SNA 4rt to 5

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6564 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
SFO-SNA 4rt to 5

Doesn't this route start May 9? How could they be reducing it if it hasn't even started yet? Or did you transpose the "N" and "A" and mean SFO-SAN?


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4714 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6536 times:

WN finally learned how to do "seasonal" flying... hence all the florida cuts starting when everyone goes back to school and hurricane season heats up

I'd doube check that list though, becuase BOS -BWI/MDWis obviously 5x not 4x. and I know for a fact that PVD-BWI went from 10 to 9 and not from 9 to 8 with todays schedule update. MHT abd BDL are also each down to 1x TPA.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

Are those numbers right? When I check the schedule on southwest.com on Tuesday..

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BNA-RDU 4rt to 3

The 5th rt was seasonal.. 5 rt --> 4

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MDW-RDU 3rt to 2

4 rt --> 3

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
PHL-RDU 5rt to 4

6 rt --> 5



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6450 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
Doesn't this route start May 9? How could they be reducing it if it hasn't even started yet? Or did you transpose the "N" and "A" and mean SFO-SAN?

I didn't transpose anything. These are copy and pasted. In the case of SFO-SNA they have added 1 RT versus what was for sale prior to this edit.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6369 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
The 5th rt was seasonal.. 5 rt --> 4

It's because of weekend cancellations. Let me post the flights fractionally. That'll be more accurate.

ABQ-MCO 2.0rt to 1.0
ABQ-PHX 9.3rt to 8.4
AUS-MCO 2.0rt to 1.0
BDL-MCO 3.1rt to 2.0
BNA-LAX 2.9rt to 2.0
BNA-MCO 5.0rt to 3.9
BNA-MDW 7.4rt to 6.4
BNA-MSY 2.7rt to 2.0
BNA-PHL 2.9rt to 2.0
BNA-PHX 2.9rt to 2.0
BNA-RDU 4.6rt to 3.9
BNA-SAN 2.0rt to 1.0
BNA-TPA 4.7rt to 3.9
BOI-RNO 2.6rt to 1.7
BOS-BWI 0.0rt to 4.7
BOS-MDW 0.0rt to 4.7
BUF-MCO 3.0rt to 2.0
BUF-TPA 1.9rt to 1.0
BUR-LAS 12.4rt to 11.7
BUR-SJC 8.3rt to 9.0
BWI-MCO 8.0rt to 6.9
BWI-MHT 9.4rt to 8.4
BWI-ORF 4.7rt to 4.0
BWI-PBI 2.9rt to 1.9
BWI-PHX 3.9rt to 3.0
BWI-PVD 9.7rt to 8.6
BWI-TPA 5.7rt to 4.7
CLE-MCO 1.0rt to 0.0
CLE-STL 1.0rt to 1.9
CMH-MCO 3.0rt to 2.0
CMH-TPA 3.0rt to 2.0
DAL-STL 7.4rt to 6.6
DAL-TUL 6.3rt to 5.6
DEN-MCI 5.7rt to 4.6
DEN-MCO 3.0rt to 2.0
DEN-OAK 3.9rt to 2.9
DEN-PHL 3.0rt to 2.0
DEN-PHX 8.4rt to 7.4
FLL-ISP 2.9rt to 2.0
FLL-MCO 5.6rt to 4.6
FLL-MDW 4.0rt to 3.0
FLL-MSY 1.9rt to 1.0
GEG-OAK 1.0rt to 1.9
HOU-JAN 3.7rt to 2.7
HOU-MCO 5.0rt to 3.7
IAD-TPA 2.0rt to 1.0
IND-JAX 1.0rt to 0.0
IND-LAS 3.0rt to 2.0
IND-MCO 2.0rt to 1.0
IND-PHX 2.0rt to 1.0
ISP-PBI 2.9rt to 1.9
ISP-TPA 3.0rt to 1.9
LAS-LAX 13.3rt to 12.1
LAS-MCI 4.9rt to 3.9
LAS-MCO 2.0rt to 1.0
LAS-ORF 1.0rt to 0.0
LAS-PDX 4.0rt to 3.0
LAS-TPA 2.0rt to 1.0
LAX-SJC 11.0rt to 10.1
LIT-PHX 0.0rt to 1.0
MCI-MCO 3.0rt to 2.0
MCI-OAK 1.9rt to 1.0
MCI-SAN 2.0rt to 1.0
MCO-RDU 3.9rt to 3.0
MCO-SAT 2.1rt to 1.0
MDW-MHT 3.9rt to 3.0
MDW-PHL 7.3rt to 6.1
MDW-PVD 3.9rt to 3.0
MDW-RDU 3.9rt to 2.9
MDW-SEA 4.1rt to 2.9
MDW-SJC 2.0rt to 1.0
MDW-TPA 5.0rt to 3.7
MDW-TUS 2.0rt to 1.0
MHT-TPA 2.0rt to 1.0
OAK-SAN 13.3rt to 11.4
OAK-SNA 8.6rt to 7.7
OMA-PHX 3.0rt to 1.7
ONT-PHX 8.6rt to 7.6
ONT-SJC 6.3rt to 5.6
ONT-SMF 9.9rt to 9.0
PBI-PHL 2.0rt to 1.0
PDX-SLC 2.9rt to 2.0
PDX-SMF 5.7rt to 6.4
PHL-PIT 4.7rt to 3.7
PHL-RDU 5.4rt to 4.4
PHL-TPA 3.9rt to 2.9
PHX-SAN 12.3rt to 11.1
PHX-STL 4.0rt to 2.7
SAN-SFO 9.1rt to 8.1
SFO-SNA 4.7rt to 5.7
SLC-STL 1.9rt to 1.0


User currently onlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6366 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 4):
I didn't transpose anything. These are copy and pasted. In the case of SFO-SNA they have added 1 RT versus what was for sale prior to this edit.

Interesting how they sold seats on only four flights when they announced five.

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/prindex.html


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6358 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
OMA-PHX 3rt to 1

It's actually 3rt -> 2rt.

I'm willing to bet that the 3 daily flights will come back in the March schedule. At least that's what it did this year.

I don't understand why WN flies a 6am or 7am DEN-OMA flight. Last fall this was a 1030AM flight and it did quit well. They moved it to 610am and now it's lucky to have 10 passengers on it. Talking with the agent, it usually comes in with 5-10 passengers on it. Move it back to a 1030 am departure and the flight will fill!

All they are trying to do is hurt F9 with there 730am flight that almost as empty but really, is it worth that amount of money bleed??


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6341 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 7):
It's actually 3rt -> 2rt.



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):

Interesting how they sold seats on only four flights when they announced five.

See the fractional version.


User currently offline7e72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

IND is really taking a hit...how many flights will they have now once the changes are in effect?


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

Wow...OKC was actually spared?!?!? This is truly shocking! Usually, we're the ones getting hosed.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6054 times:

These changes are effective with the 8/16 optimized schedule (which sees the beginning of BOS service) and is being discussed a bit on another thread:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4382796/

It does seem a bit early to go into the fall season reductions but my guess is that WN has been seeing light loads for early August (which has been bookable for a while now) and, besides, they need a/c for the new BOS service anyway.

It's just going to be a light summer of air travel; hopefully the oil prices will remain low so at least the airlines don't get a double whammy this year!

bb


User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

I'm surprised they did not add anything to MSY, but I am glad to see that nothing was cut. So good news after all.

MD


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

I just looked carefully at the numbers reported and found many errors as far as SAN is concerned. (BTW, with WN, I, and most others, when counting and comparing flight counts, simply look at the Mo-Fr flights, disregarding Sa and Su which vary from both weekdays and from each other.)

SAN-OAK is actually reduced from 14 to 12 flights (on the weekday sked's);
SAN-PHX goes down from 13 to 12; and SAN-SFO is reduced from 10 to 9 flts. In addition,
SAN-TUS is increasing from 3 to 4 trips on the weekdays. (BNA-SAN and MCI-SAN are both cut in half, as shown.)

I don't know how accurate the other numbers are but these numbers are a correct comparison of the 7/6 and 8/16 schedules for San Diego.

bb


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5929 times:

Wow, not a single ELP flight mentioned. ELP must be holding its own, then  Smile


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5929 times:

Interesting. So PHL loses 6 flights for now, even though WN will have more gates for expansion shortly.

User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

Wow... IND gets hit big time with this new schedule. Down from 20-21 total flights/day to 15-16 flights/day. That's what, a near-25% decrease in flights?

Good for FWA and G4, since IND-MCO was impacted by the cuts. Now if only we could get FWA-LAS back...



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5503 times:

The schedule planning guy who writes on Southwest's blog site posted a summary of the August 16 changes:

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/files/Aug16Changes.pdf

The chart he posted covers the normal weekday schedule, not weekends, if memory serves.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5450 times:

To sum things up for those who are interested in new/discontinued routes...

New

Baltimore-Boston
Boston-Chicago
Little Rock-Phoenix

Discontinued

Cleveland-Orlando
Indianapolis-Jacksonville
Las Vegas-Norfolk



a.
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

That just does not look right to see PHX-STL go from Six at its peak down to 2 Daily, even on www.southwest.com looking in August I still show 3 daily as does the new change I saw on swalife which is posted above me.

The one posted above should be the official schedule change.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5312 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
The schedule planning guy who writes on Southwest's blog site posted a summary of the August 16 changes:
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/files/A...s.pdf

Using the above-referenced chart (thanks much for that link, Scott), here's a summary of flight changes by station (the number on the far right is the NET change):
ABQ -2
AUS -1
BWI -7 +5 = -2
BOI -1
BOS +10 = +10
BUF -2
BUR -2 +1 = -1
MDW -10 +5 = -5
CLE -1 +1 = 0 (lost 1 route completely - MCO)
CMH -2
DAL -2
DEN -5
FLL -4
BDL -1
HOU -2
IND -4 (lost 1 route completely - JAX)
JAN -1
JAX -1 (lost 1 route completely - IND)
MCI -5
LAS -8 (lost 1 route completely - ORF)
LIT +1
ISP -3
LAX -3
MHT -3
BNA -9
MSY -2
ORF -2 (lost 1 route completely - LAS)
OAK -6 +1 = -5
OMA -1
ONT -3
SNA -1 +1 = 0
MCO -16 (lost 1 route completely - CLE)
PHL -7
PHX -9 +1 = -8
PIT -1
PDX -2 +1 = -1
PVD -2
RDU -4
RNO -1
SMF -1 +1 = 0
SLC -2
SAT -1
SAN -6 +1 = -5
SFO -1 +1 = 0
SJC -3 +1 = -2
SEA -1
GEG +1
STL -3 +1 = -2
TPA -10
TUS -1 +1 = 0
TUL -1
IAD -1
PBI -3

>only 3 stations saw a net gain of flights, including the new city, BOS.
>the Biggest Losers were MCO(-16), TPA(-10), BNA(-9), PHX(-8), LAS(-8), and PHL(-7). >5 stations lost 5 flights each (MDW, DEN, MCI, OAK, SAN).
>50 stations have decreased flight counts - that's 74% of WN's 68 station-total.
>only 3 routes were shut down completely (LAS-ORF, IND-JAX and CLE-MCO.)

Quite an optimization...

bb


User currently offlineLemonKitty From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5117 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Discontinued

Cleveland-Orlando
Indianapolis-Jacksonville
Las Vegas-Norfolk

These routes are not discontinued..Just non-stop service between these cities..

LK

[Edited 2009-04-17 18:23:32]


I met my wife on Airliners.Net!!!!
User currently offlineLemonKitty From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5101 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
New

Baltimore-Boston
Boston-Chicago
Little Rock-Phoenix

LIT-PHX is not a new route...They are just resuming non-stop service between these cities..Currently only connecting service is available..

LK



I met my wife on Airliners.Net!!!!
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5064 times:



Quoting LemonKitty (Reply 21):
These routes are not discontinued..Just non-stop service between these cities..

If its not non-stop then the route isn't usually considered to be "existing". Theres tons of one stop stuff/same plane stuff out there.

Quoting LemonKitty (Reply 22):
LIT-PHX is not a new route...They are just resuming non-stop service between these cities..Currently only connecting service is available..

So its a new route. If theres not a plane flying directly between the two cities now then its not currently being "flown", per se.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days ago) and read 4946 times:



Quoting LemonKitty (Reply 21):
These routes are not discontinued..Just non-stop service between these cities..

Therefore, these routes are being discontinued.

Quoting LemonKitty (Reply 22):
LIT-PHX is not a new route...They are just resuming non-stop service between these cities..Currently only connecting service is available..

Hence, PHX-LIT, which currently is not served non-stop, is a new (or resumed) route.



a.
25 Atrude777 : I get what Lemonkitty was saying. WN has previously flown the LIT-PHX-LIT many times before, being discontinued at point. However this is not "new" t
26 ScottB : I wonder if we'll see some of the MCO and TPA flying back come next spring. Late summer through early February tends to see weak travel to Florida as
27 TSRA : Does any WN experts know how many flights a day this leaves MCI?
28 Iowaman : 59 weekday departures: SEA 1x PDX 1x OAK 1x LAX 3x SAN 1x LAS 4x PHX 3x ABQ 2x DEN 5x OKC 2x DAL 8x STL 5x MDW 10x IND 2x BNA 4x BWI 3x MCO 2x TPA 2x
29 MAH4546 : There's a daily to FLL, too.
30 Iowaman : Oops, missed that one, so 60 daily.
31 Enilria : I wouldn't expect much more than service to BOS...maybe. The wheels were in motion to get those gates before their priorities changed. Might be relat
32 ERJ170 : As far as I thought, the -1 RDU-MDW/BNA/MCO flights were seasonal flights anyway.. the -1 PHL flight was a true drop. So are these truely seasonal dr
33 USAirALB : I am surprised ALB didn't get anything... They announced -1 MCO flight for a total of 2 daily, but we get that every year, it comes back in October. I
34 Enilria : I think the Florida stuff is seasonal. The rest is more of a question mark. Total departures fell by 130. That means some stuff will probably come ba
35 TSRA : Thanks!
36 VictorKilo : WN in the past has not shown a desire to launch any new station with less than 10 flights - LGA being an execption due to slots. But now they'll shri
37 FWAERJ : The massive cost increases for IND's new Weir Cook Terminal don't kick in until the 1st of 2010, so I think it might be due to the state of the econo
38 Cubsrule : I think CRP is a bit of a special case because it is so small. Even with only 5 daily flights, WN offers the most seats in CRP and carries the most p
39 Enilria : I think it is logical to assume that WN is shrinking these stations because they aren't making money to begin with. It is further quite logical to as
40 LoneStarMike : I think it's geographical location hurts it as well. CRP is the only WN station that has nonstops to only 1 destination. Other cities like AMA and OM
41 Enilria : You are kind of saying "it's the end of the line". I agree that means it has no ability to be an intermediate stop, but that also means it suffers fi
42 LoneStarMike : I agree. That was kind of my point. CRP has two strikes against it. 1. It's very small and 2. It's less connected to the rest of WN's network. It has
43 Cubsrule : Do you know l/fs for other small stations?
44 Enilria : Here are all the LFs for WN stations for 2008 Jan-Dec ABQ 62 66 74 70 73 79 76 75 65 71 59 67 ALB 73 79 82 84 79 73 80 84 70 84 63 70 AMA 60 60 69 64
45 Cubsrule : CRP really doesn't seem that far out of line from the other small stations.
46 Enilria : There are 64 stations. CRP is 62nd. JAN is 63rd and BOI is 64th.
47 Cubsrule : Yup, and yet WN sticks around all of them. Perhaps yields are the reason why?
48 Enilria : I think the reason is that WN doesn't close stations (rarely). CRP may (haven't looked) have good yield, but I know JAN doesn't. It was only added as
49 Cubsrule : I can't believe that they still keep it open just for political reasons.
50 Enilria : I'm saying JAN was added in the Trent Lott era because a lot of airlines were jockeying over changes in the ticket tax. They don't close it because W
51 Cubsrule : It absolutely was, but the ticket tax debate is pretty much dead, and Lott is no longer in office. WN is so focused on efficiency in other arenas tha
52 Enilria : I just checked CRP yield. It sucks. It's about the same distance as PHL-PVD which is probably not a great route either. WN's CRP-HOU only carries 87
53 Cubsrule : How does that compare to CO and MQ in the market?
54 Enilria : CRP-IAH is 68 passengers at $73. WN had 820 seats to HOU and CO had 550 to IAH during that period. So WN had only 10.6% of its seats filled with loca
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