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Fleet Upgrades And Commonality  
User currently offlineFly US Airways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

Now, airlines are dramatically upgrading their fleet. Most are going exclusively with either Boeing (AA, CO, DL) or Airbus (US). But some are using both companies for their new aircraft, either short-haul from one and long-haul from the other (UAL), or mix-matched all over the place (SQ, TWA). For the airlines using both companies, I thought that airlines wouldn't want to do this for fleet commonality reasons, such as crew training and replacement parts. A look at some of the US airlines:

TWA: Ordered both B717s and A318s. This seems a bit odd, ordering such a large aircraft from both companies.

Continental: Ordering all aircraft from Boeing, including NG737s, 777s, and 767-400s

Delta: Ordering NG737s, had plans to order 777s (we all know that story!), and 767-400s. So they are going with Boeing.

US Airways: The only US airline going exclusively with Airbus. Ordering A320/A319s for their shorthaul aircraft. A330s coming on line later this year. Do you think the A321 could find a place in this airline's fleets?

United: One of the one going with both. Going with Airbus for shorthaul, and going with 777s for longhaul.

American: Boeing. NG737s and 777s

Northwest: Does anyone know what is happening with NW? They have made no announcements on major fleet plans.

So, this pretty much sums up the US airlines. The question still stands: is fleet commonality important. Why/why not? If so, why are airlines like SQ ordering A330s/A340s/777s?

Your comments welcomed!

Fly US Airways

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 895 times:

Northwest is going with A320's for sure for dmestic travel. I don't know if they are planning to upgrade their long-haul aircraft in the near future. They might be getting A319's, but I'm not sure

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1015 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 889 times:

Northwest has A319's. They have ordered a bunch of them. They also have some A330's with PW engines on order.

User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 879 times:

Not that it really matters, but as an investor in (but not an employee of) Southwest Airlines Co I wonder why you omitted the 4th largest passenger-carrying airline in the country and then said "well, that wraps it up for the major U.S. Airlines..."

At any rate, nothing much has changed over there. They are looking at adding up to 200 B737NGs (all 700s so far) over the next 4 or 5 years. They have 50 coming from now until the end of 2000...with possible options to receive a total of 74 next year.

Despite rumors, WN is not planning to add either 757s or RJs to their all B737 fleet (of over 300 a/c)


User currently offlineFly US Airways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 878 times:

TxAgKuwait-

Sorry for ommiting SWA. When I was thinking about this post, I was thinking about the commonality of long-haul and short-haul aircraft. Since SWA doesn't operate long-haul routes and operates all 737s (now theres commonality) it didn't really fit my topic, which was fleet commonality and not just upgrade fleet programs.

Sorry about that,
Fly US Airways


User currently offlineUnited946 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 875 times:

From my perspective, it would be nice to see UAL move to a five model fleet: 737NG, 747, 757, 767, 777, eventually phasing out the 747s and replacing them with 777-300 extended range models, when they come out. A four type fleet would cut maintenance and training costs so much.

Oh, well. Back to reality. It's unfortunate that it will never happen. After all, these days, 2 out of the Big 3 have European aircraft in their fleet. Something as wonderful and practical as an all-Boeing fleet here seems too good to be true.

United946
Burlingame, California


User currently offlineDannyboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 867 times:

NWA is getting the A319(50 of them), quite soon I believe. They also have had A330's on order for quite a while but they keep deferring delivery dates so who know's what's going on in the widebody dept for them

User currently offlineKen4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 860 times:

Someone last month had a great point about commonality when comparing similiar aircraft, i.e 737-600/700/800/900 or A318/19/20/21. The airline can swap planes around on particular days to match capacity. Fly from point A to B on Monday with 700, Tuesday with a 600 etc. This allows the crews to stay the same.

The same could be said for the wide-bodies, but I don't believe most airlines use the same pilots to fly narrow body and wide bodies. I agree that some savings are possible in reduced training, but with the bigger airlines, this goes away as you need the same amount of simulators and teachers. Smaller airlines like Swiss Air can make use of commonality in aircraft.

Finally, I believe that the airlines are buying the best airlplane for their need. This is why new models (i.e. 757-300, 767-400, A330-200) are being built. The market for a 4 engine 300 passenger plane is limited, so why should Boeing builds its own? Each builder will have its own niche markets as some are too small to justify both makers building both.


User currently offlineWinAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (15 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 835 times:

I thought someone told me that they turned down the orders for the A330. Maybe I am thinking of TWA.

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 834 times:

When is NWA going to get it's A330s? They seem to have been on order for an extremeny long time, now USAirways is going to be the first 330 operator in the states.


« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineAC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 834 times:

By the looks of it, Air Canada is moving towards an all-airbus fleet. I think they are retiring their DC-9's by april first due to stage III requirements, (I don't know of any plans to hush-kit them). They are being replaced with A319's, (They already have 35 of them). They have 34 A320's. THey have several a340's with more on order. And they have several A330's on order. Of course they will still have their 767's and 747 combi's. And of course they have the CRJ. I think they were expressing an interest in the A3XX, but I'm not sure.

User currently offlineN777UA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 824 times:

The reason why UA chose the Airbus (19 & 20) over the NG737 is because of customer preference. The "bus" is much more comfortable than the 737. I have flown on both. And about commonality, the 19s and 20s can be mix-matched, as that is what UA does, since there is 100% commonality for the pilots (besides aircraft length & # of OW exits).

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1015 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 825 times:

That's a good question about NW's A330's which have been on order for years. I haven't heard anything about them actually receiving these A330's but in the meantime they have been getting A320 family aircraft left and right. I doubt Airbus would hold them to the A330 contract if NW chooses to get more A320 class aircraft instead. I would like to see NW get 777's to replace their large DC10-30/40 fleet instead of A340's. The 777's would have better performance and more cargo capability which is a big deal to NW.

User currently offlineLanFan From United States of America, joined May 1999, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 804 times:

Does anyone know when Lanchile will take delivery of its A320 A319 A\C.?

Thanks


User currently offlineGoA340 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 794 times:

Airbus is rolling out a longer range A321 capable of making US east-west coast routes (the #1 reason there are none of this type in the US). UA and America West are probably going to be the customers of the type, in some instances replacing the migthy 757s....Expect also an order from US Airways...

User currently offlineJZ From United States of America, joined May 1999, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (15 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 786 times:

I think fleet commonality is very important. It reduces the operating cost significantly. However, some airlines buy from both manufacturers as a leverage to get better deals from both of them.

Also, from a plane spotter's point of view, fleet commonality is a bad thing, don't you think? Imaging a major airports filled with just one or two types of airliners. What fun would that be?


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