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Planned CO CLE Routes That Never Became  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

I remember in Fall 2007, CO announced a major CLE expansion. It was to include about 20 new regional aircraft destinations, and about a dozen new mainline destinations. It would also create almost a thousand jobs for the Greater Cleavland area.

I don't know if any of those routes were announced, but the expansion was canceled do to the Economic Crisis of 2008.

I would like to know the new routes. Maybe someone from CO knows.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
125 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10296 times:

Word had it that cal wanted to fly cle to ams.

User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10291 times:

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.aviation.com/business/070...ntinental-cleveland-expansion.html


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10235 times:



Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 1):
Word had it that cal wanted to fly cle to ams.

That would have been sweet...

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 2):
Is this what you are looking for?

Kind of....I want all the destinations CO wanted to fly from CLE. I think that CO themselves is the only one that may know.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10205 times:

Heres a list of 12....these were all launched...

Greensboro, N.C. (GSO) Three times daily March 3, 2008

Omaha, Neb. (OMA) Three times daily March 3, 2008

Savannah, Ga. (SAV) Twice daily March 3, 2008

Birmingham, Ala. (BHM) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Charleston, S.C. (CHS) Once daily April 6, 2008

Green Bay, Wis. (GRB) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Tulsa, Okla. (TUL) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Little Rock, Ark. (LIT) Twice daily May 4, 2008

Memphis, Tenn. (MEM) Twice daily May 4, 2008

Lansing, Mich. (LAN) Three times daily May 4, 2008

Des Moines, Iowa (DSM) Twice daily June 12, 2008

Kalamazoo, Mich. (AZO) Three times daily June 12, 2008

Ottawa, Ontario (YOW)... I don't know the dates

I can't believe CLE couldn't support YOW. Continental Connection flew it out of ALB and never dropped it until the hub was closed.

I'm curious on some of the planned mainline destinations.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10088 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 4):
Heres a list of 12....these were all launched...

Greensboro, N.C. (GSO) Three times daily March 3, 2008

Omaha, Neb. (OMA) Three times daily March 3, 2008

Savannah, Ga. (SAV) Twice daily March 3, 2008

Birmingham, Ala. (BHM) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Charleston, S.C. (CHS) Once daily April 6, 2008

Green Bay, Wis. (GRB) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Tulsa, Okla. (TUL) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Little Rock, Ark. (LIT) Twice daily May 4, 2008

Memphis, Tenn. (MEM) Twice daily May 4, 2008

Lansing, Mich. (LAN) Three times daily May 4, 2008

Des Moines, Iowa (DSM) Twice daily June 12, 2008

Kalamazoo, Mich. (AZO) Three times daily June 12, 2008

Ottawa, Ontario (YOW)... I don't know the dates

I can't believe CLE couldn't support YOW. Continental Connection flew it out of ALB and never dropped it until the hub was closed.

Actually, the restart of LAN and AZO never happened. They were the first casualties of CO's expansion when the economy started to go south. They were scrubbed less than a month before the first flights. DSM was launched on June 12th last year-the same day CO announed that it, and the other destinations (plus ORF, BNA, SAT, AUS and SAN) were to be cut. CO later axed DTW, TOL, CVG, AVP, HPN, JFK and IAD out of CLE as well.

CLE lost almost 1/4 of it's destinations in less than three months.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10067 times:

Almost forgot. As for CLE-AMS, that was a distinct possibility until CO decided to switch from Skyteam to Star. There is talk that CLE-FRA could start as early as 2010 with either CO or LH metal.

Also had heard from a reliable ANET source that a CLE-HNL, at least a few times a week, was in the works for perhaps '10, until the economy tanked.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10044 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
There is talk that CLE-FRA could start as early as 2010 with either CO or LH metal.

With the switch over to Star Alliance, I could see this on a LH A330 actually. I would think they could get the business traffic they need for the route, but I would love to see some more of the domestic routes they cut last year come back for extra feed.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineBoeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10012 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):

They axed LEX as well...

Boeing727


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9993 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 7):
With the switch over to Star Alliance, I could see this on a LH A330 actually. I would think they could get the business traffic they need for the route, but I would love to see some more of the domestic routes they cut last year come back for extra feed.

I would think an A330 too big for that route. It's likely if CO ran it, it would be with a 762.

As for the domestics, some may well come back when things get a little better. I was shocked when ORF and BNA were axed, to be honest. As for the new routes, OMA, OKC, TUL, LIT, DSM, SAV all were doing very well, load-wise, when they were axed.

Quoting Boeing727 (Reply 8):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):

They axed LEX as well...

I knew I missed one somewhere.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9976 times:
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GRB was also opened, but closed about 6 weeks after it opened.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
There is talk that CLE-FRA could start as early as 2010 with either CO or LH metal.

I know you like to be optimistic, but CLE-FRA with a 762 would never happen.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9907 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 10):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
There is talk that CLE-FRA could start as early as 2010 with either CO or LH metal.

I know you like to be optimistic, but CLE-FRA with a 762 would never happen.

What else could do it? I don't think a 752 has the range, and anything else would be too large for the market. The 752 is practically on fumes some days going LON-CLE.


User currently offlineCaleeiii From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9862 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 4):
Birmingham, Ala. (BHM) Twice daily April 6, 2008

Didn't last long. And, it was the second time it was tried. Unfortunate, as several destinations are not adequately accessible with connections through EWR.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9845 times:
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):

nothing that we have...........therefore, I do not see this being a viable route for us right now, even in the JV. There would be other routes, probably even a 2nd EWR-FRA flight, before we would jump on the CLE-FRA wagon. Particularly if we were to codeshare with OS or MS.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

CALMSP, do you say that about the 762 because it's a numbers game? If that's it, I think I might agree with you. Until the 787's start coming online, the re-gauge of a lot of flights can't take place. If you think it's simply not capable or something, I might have to disagree with that.

Numbers are the reason that, if it does start in '10, that it could be an LH flight.


User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9710 times:

With oil prices back down, I was hoping in the coming months we would see the resumption of the former routes plus maybe some other cities like CID, FAR, and FSD (streching it) but that appears to be false hope considering summer season is about to start....

BTW, when CO operated DSM-CLE, how were the loads???

Thanks.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9703 times:



Quoting Evanbu (Reply 15):
BTW, when CO operated DSM-CLE, how were the loads???

Started off a little slow, but by the time the flight ceased, the loads were usually very good out of CLE-I was seeing 45-50 people a lot on that flight.

I do think CO panicked a little when it pulled these flights, although no one knew where the price of gas was going at the time. I think CO should look at bringing some of them back in '10 if they can. The one I wouldn't bring back, at least with an RJ, would be GSO. The loads on that were always pretty terrible.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5434 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9549 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
I don't think a 752 has the range

DL plans on CVG-AMS (One nm longer than CLE-FRA) with a 757. Is it the engine difference (Pratt vs Rolls) or does DL limit the loads?

A couple of other routes that CO announced but never operated were PDX and YHM about 10 years ago. YHM would have used E-120's I believe. Portland was probably one of the unannounced mainline routes planned for the last expansion and maybe Sacramento, as well. CLE O&D to both cities was over 100 a day at the time.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineOffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 885 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9156 times:

In terms of international routes (TATL), does anyone think CLE's close proximity to EWR (i.e. another major CO hub) impedes growth at CLE ?

(Last year I flew LHR IAH SFO // CLE EWR BRU on CO. Nice to fly something different - 764's)



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8680 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
CO later axed DTW, TOL, CVG, AVP, HPN, JFK and IAD out of CLE as well.

With CO leaving Sky, do you think at least DTW and CVG would come back? I am assuming they were able to cut these since they could codeshare on NW and DL without losing too much.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8593 times:
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Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 19):

often wondered that myself...........probably would be best if 3M would bring some more BE1 up to CLE to do the routes.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8555 times:

It absolutely amazed me how much Larry Kellner was pimping CLE as the next massive buildup...only to pull the rug out from under them. I know the economy went to the crapper, but the signs were there before the expansion was announced, yet they chose to go through with it anyways.

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22993 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8544 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
CALMSP, do you say that about the 762 because it's a numbers game? If that's it, I think I might agree with you. Until the 787's start coming online, the re-gauge of a lot of flights can't take place.

Well, there's at least the potential to get the 764 from EWR-FRA if LH takes over the route. That could trickle down to a 762 being available for CLE-FRA... if that's what CO wanted to do with a single available widebody.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5434 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8506 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 20):
often wondered that myself...........probably would be best if 3M would bring some more BE1 up to CLE to do the routes.

3M's stock (symbol GIA) has tripled since its December low and they have stated in SEC filings that the CLE routes are profitable. Their 10-K states that they are looking at aircraft acquisition opportunities, additional codesharing, as well as "airline" acquisitions. Presumably they are looking at very small airlines. Their largest stockholder is Wash DC suburb-based Daniel Abramowitz and his small cap fund, which could be a source of additional financing.

Whether they further expand CLE flying will probably depend on their acquisition of additional Beeches and the desires of CO, which has the right to a directorship, to buy 10% of their stock, and to review most major corporate decisions.

If they do expand in CLE, it would probably not come before the summer of 2010. I guess it's possible that they could switch a few planes between summer in CLE and winter in Florida this year, but any such action probably would have been announced by now.

Just my opinion; their stock has been one of my better ideas of late.  

Edited for grammar

[Edited 2009-04-20 08:43:12]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day ago) and read 8333 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):

I love how everyone is so optimistic about widebodies in CLE!!  Silly



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
25 Joeman : So? As long as CO gives CLE its steady diet of expansion "wishes" soon followed by coincidental conditions that prohibit or create reductions, possib
26 Post contains links Highflier92660 : I wonder if those people secretly chuckling over Cleveland's lack of international wide body service are referring to airline economics or are actual
27 Greenair727 : For CO's 4/10/09 upload to OAG, CLE-LHR (as well as a few other seasonal CO routes) was made year-round daily (previously ended 9/2/09). As CO made no
28 Runway23 : IIRC they launched CLE-YOW sometime in October/Nov 2007. Problem YOW-CLE had in my opinion was that it pretty much mirrored CO's flight times to EWR
29 SANFan : What I'm kind of surprised at is this summer's "seasonal" flights that didn't even return. My example, needless to say, is CLE-SAN which has operated
30 Joeman : Very major Indeed...the reductions of service were heavily weighted toward CLE regardless of how overall percentage numbers are manipulated for publi
31 2travel2know : Like many, I usually tend to compare CO @ CLE with DL @ CVG and unlike DL @ CVG, I don't see an array of CO international leisure destinations out of
32 Commavia : Definitely, and not just for international. The truth is that for the most part, CLE handles the exact same traffic flows that EWR does, only with fe
33 USAirALB : HNL would have been sick. Hope not, sure as hell rather connect through CLE than Ewr.
34 Citation501SP : The CLE-SEA route that is Seasonal now was supposed to be a year round daily during this build up at SEA. When it is the Seasons it operates its a gre
35 CO58 : Does the schedule and planning department know at CO know about this? Please do tell which member? Again, does anyone in the planning department know
36 Falcon84 : We did run that route for about 5 days around Thanksgiving a few years back, with a 738. And it was absolutely PACKED. I worked it every night we ran
37 N766UA : CO dropped CLE-CDG after 1 season; why does anyone think FRA would be viable? There's just no reason for this route, even with the entrance to star.
38 Cubsrule : Easy answer to that question: CO needs all the widebody capacity it can find. LH doesn't utilize their widebodies so much.
39 Joeman : If it pleases the elite, the same plans that have been developing since the new runway was built unless it was built simply to add expense for the ot
40 Falcon84 : Sorry, but that talk is coming from more than just employee rumors, N766UA. It is being considered.
41 AlitaliaDC10 : At the time of the AZ/CO alliance in the early '90s a CLE-FCO and IAH-FCO non-stops were considered but never eventuated. I still love the dual livery
42 CO58 : That's the reason? Airlines don't go giving away routes to their alliance partners especially between two large hubs, NW/KL and AF/DL may be the sole
43 MasseyBrown : During conference calls CO has regularly reported that O&D represents close to 60% of its total CLE traffic. That percentage may have declined last s
44 CALMSP : absolutely........that is why sadly, CLE will not see a widebody with CO metal for at least 5-7 years.
45 Runway23 : 5-7 years is too long a wait considering what can happen. Airlines can't even manage a year without having to adapt right now with all the market cha
46 Cubsrule : Airlines that have ATI sure do... There's a big difference between alliance partners (for whom your statement is correct) and alliance partners with
47 CO58 : I will agree with you regarding NW/KL and to a lesser extent AF/KL, though I hardly call CDG-PHL a major hub to hub for them. I got ask though about
48 Cubsrule : SFO-MUC is exclusively LH LAX is all LH metal to Germany DEN-FRA is exclusively LH IAD-MUC is exclusively UA They don't swap crazily like NW and KL h
49 MasseyBrown : In most years O&D and yields have been strong enough to do that. The problem has been that in balancing CLE's smaller but fairly regular returns agai
50 Joeman : That sums up the entire CO CLE issue entirely
51 Post contains images CO58 : The key word here is "swap," which in my opinion means it was operated by one alliance partner who then stopped flying with their own metal and let th
52 Cubsrule : Well, not really, and that's the point. CO hasn't had this option with respect to EWR-FRA yet. That's why it'll be interesting to see how it shakes o
53 MasseyBrown : It's probably a coincidence, but since my post above yesterday about Gulfstream, their stock is up another dollar and change on decent but not earthsh
54 Fun2fly : Couple of thoughts.. As late as 3 weeks ago, Smisek and Kellner said CLE is undersized and will redo their expansion in better times. Really driven by
55 Cle757 : I think they axed alot of cities too early including CDG which was doing very well, but the fuel costs at the time were very high.
56 CALMSP : maybe even see some upgrades on ATL or MSP. We will be losing market share in those cities with the termination of the codeshare.
57 USAirALB : Lets hope that they can keep there word... Other notices about the CLE hub. -They only have one club?!!? -They have ticket offices in IAH,GUM,EWR,HNL
58 MAH4546 : CTOs are entirely unnecessary in Cleveland. Many immigrants - Filipino immigrants in Hawai'i and Guam; Latin American immigrants in Houston and Newar
59 Post contains images Commavia : Not to contradict your point - which is entirely correct - but just a slight addendum: AA actually does have a CTO in the Metroplex, they just don't
60 N766UA : I remember a lot of talk about BA "considering" Cleveland about 10 years ago. In fact, people on this board SWORE BA officials were spending time at
61 Cubsrule : ...as do many smaller hubs (MEM, SLC, STL, LAX).
62 Falcon84 : CO closed most of it's CTO's in most locations. The advent of online booking engines make them pretty obsolete these days.
63 Ncflyer : CLE757 hit the nail on the head, why doesn't CO ever give anything at CLE a chance to perform? To introduce a route and expect to nail it from day 1,
64 MasseyBrown : According to today's earnings conference call, it's more complicated than that. Kellner said that the 2009 CLE-LHR slot was obtained from an unnamed
65 Joeman : I agree, same old, same old, which is why my tone about CO CLE is normally skeptical. This question has been tossed out on this forum a lot and never
66 Fun2fly : I think things will be different for CO at CLE because of drastically improved relations between Mayor Jackson, Ricky Smith and the CO CLE and Corpora
67 Post contains links Greenair727 : Cleveland is on the way back up. Yes, its been hit hard with foreclosures and employment and population losses. But the city has always been a gem of
68 CALMSP : 2 of the 7 can happen!!
69 USAirALB : Yeah, TLV???!! FRA,CDG,LHR,maybe AMS and PTY
70 2travel2know : Yes, PTY: CO partner airline CM's hub and FRA: Staralliance LH mega-hub. Add assorted Caribbean destinations like MBJ and AUA and probably that'll be
71 Cubsrule : I'm well aware that CO and CM are partners. That said, if CM can't support a flight to Chicago-- a significantly larger and more internationally-orie
72 2travel2know : Who said CM can't support ORD, CM hasn't even tried that route yet but it's on their radar. I'm not talking about CM flying to CLE, it's CO flying to
73 Greenair727 : I think a few days/week per direction would work on CO metal. Cleveland recently signed some trade deal with Costa Rica that would further support his
74 2travel2know : Just to be on the safe side, December and January are the months when seat demand is at its highest, if a route doesn't work those months, most likel
75 Falcon84 : CLE-TLV HAS been studied a few times, CALMSP. We have a huge Jewish population in Greater Cleveland, and it has been explored. I don't thnk it'll hap
76 Cubsrule : If ORD were going to do better than any existing station, they'd have tried it by now. CM is quite well-managed. They go where the demand is, which a
77 USAirALB : Could a 735/733 do it? I know they used to use them on transcon, but I think they had extra fuel storage. I know CO flys EWR-DEN on a 733, and I thin
78 2travel2know : CM hasn't started ORD yet because (1) ORD is out of E190 range, CM needs their B737-700 on other routes, (2) ORD might not support daily flights exce
79 Greenair727 : 2travel2know--do you know if CO and CM are in talks for CO serving CLE-PTY?
80 Cubsrule : ...and that's a route with a lot more bulk than CLE. Yet, for CLE-PTY to have any chance of succeeding, it would have to hook up with the southbound
81 2travel2know : I can bet that CM hasn't studied CLE and won't do it. Can't guess about CO thinking CLE-PTY w/CM codeshare. I've not gotten any signs that CM won't f
82 Cubsrule : No, there are no signs that they won't fly to either ORD or YYZ. But it's clear that ORD is not CM's first priority in the United States, nor should
83 2travel2know : And now going back to CLE...
84 CALMSP : ........come on now.........we both know this is not true.
85 Greenair727 : I also have heard that CLE-TLV was explored before--which is why i mentioned a few posts ago. CLE not only has a large Jewish population, but there ar
86 CLE757 : This is very true.
87 CALMSP : we've all heard about the proposed review of CLE-TLV..............b/c we all look at this forum 20 hours a day!!
88 MAH4546 : It's laughable that people continue to think CLE-TLV was being considered. I don't have any inside info on CO or anything, but I refuse to believe CO
89 Thomacf : The idea that Cleveland is "coming back" is entirely BS. The city has and is continuing to die. This recession is actually helping it right size into
90 Falcon84 : I never said it was being considered. But I DO know, for a fact, that CO and the city of Cleveland have both studied the route. On more than one occa
91 Jetpixx : I am originally from CLE and would love nothing more than to see the airport and city survive and thrive. However, all of these pipe dreams and wishca
92 EddieDude : Didn't CO have plans for CLE-MEX-CLE?
93 Ncflyer : thomacf, phew, don't know what you have against Cleveland. I think my favorite part of your post is how you praise Chicago as a business location, the
94 Fun2fly : If this thread is focused on the greater CLE airport, than OMX, Eaton, Progressive, Lubrizol, etc. being located in the suburbs or downtown really do
95 Falcon84 : Exactly. It DOES hurt the city, proper, because it takes away tax dollars from the city. But it does no damage to the region as a whole. I'm really h
96 Joeman : I'm all for it, but let's think federal $$$ under the current economic recovery tactics
97 Falcon84 : I agree. Cleveland should seriously look into it. After all, they did get $400 million alone for fixing the Innerbelt bridge over the next few years.
98 MAH4546 : At 81,000, it is nowhere near the size of actually large Jewish communities in cities like LA, Miami, and Philadelphia. Though "large" is all relativ
99 N766UA : Detroit has the largest Arab population outside of the middle east, and they have only very limited service to Amman. My point is that if somewhere li
100 USAirALB : AM applied and got approval..never started. I forget, I do remember AM applying for that route though, getting it, and not starting it. Well said
101 STT757 : New Jersey which is the third smallest State in the Nation has a Jewish community of 500,000, I honestly think CO would do better with a 3rd daily EW
102 MAH4546 : Miami has the most Jews per capita, at 10% of the population. New York is 9%. Unless you are referring to states, and yes, New Jersey is second with
103 STT757 : New Jersey is 5.5% of the population, The Counties in New Jersey with the largest Jewish populations: Bergen County 85,000 Essex County (Newark) 76,0
104 Falcon84 : L.A., Miamia and Philly are all much larger cities than Cleveland, too, is that not right? And, in any respect, it doesn't change the fact that I kno
105 Post contains links Greenair727 : MasseyBrown was giving us good advice back there... Gulfstream International Group, Inc. Reports Significant Improvement in Operating Income and Net
106 Post contains links MasseyBrown : 3M had an investors' conference call today here: http://www.taglich.com/conference.htm It's a fascinating half-hour for anybody who likes the little
107 CLE757 : Thats good news, I think DTW,CVG and TOL will be back.
108 Cubsrule : I can't believe there are that many abandoned hub routes in PIT that wouldn't work better from CLE.
109 SurfandSnow : I think the good thing for CLE is that CO has maintained relatively constant levels of service. CVG saw dramatic increases in the early 2000s when Eur
110 MasseyBrown : Hackett, the CEO, emphasized that 3M intends to avoid competition when possible, which probably means leaving DTW and CVG to DL unless CO offers some
111 Tommy767 : According to wikipedia Jersey has over 6% and New York state nearly 10%
112 USAirALB : That would be great. US only flies 1x on ALB-BUF compared to what 15 daily on US and CO combined a couple years ago. 1x is pathetic, and the times ar
113 PITrules : Perhaps not better than from CLE, but in addition to some of those already served from CLE? PIT-MDT/IND/SDF/RIC all come to mind. I didn't listen to
114 Flyinryan99 : Or fly "at risk" like in Florida? They keep the CO code but assume all of the costs.
115 Cubsrule : That makes sense. IIRC, IND, SDF, and RIC were all cut fairly late from the PIT hub, so I assume they were some of the better performers (though RIC
116 F9fan : The big problem with EWR is that it is at capacity. In fact, of the major interational airports in the northeast corridor, only IAD is not expierenci
117 MasseyBrown : March (the latest numbers at the BLS) unemployment in Midwestern and Southern MSA's by associated airport: CLE - 8.7% CVG - 9.0% DTW - 14.0% CLT - 11
118 Greenair727 : Such a lawsuit would be pointless, as the developers already said they would not build at Tower City. Killing the project altogether wouldn't benefit
119 Ncflyer : Agreed, it's really not any worse in Cleveland, despite what the naysayers might lead one to believe. It's a little unfair to compare CLE to DEN. For
120 HPAEAA : Why? the airport they have doesn't suffer from capacity constraints (runway or terminal gate space) they've made the improvements to allow passengers
121 F9fan : Good points. DEN also benefits from being closer to the geographic center of the continental U.S. However, in terms of metropolitan area population,
122 Falcon84 : As someone who has worked at CLE for 22 years now, I cannot disagree more. Cleveland should take the IX-Cneter, and, once the new Convention Center i
123 Highflier92660 : Absolutely Falcon84!!! The IX-Center, the Tank Plant (or whatever other description one places on that monsterous structure eating up valuable acreage
124 Falcon84 : I doubt you could build a mid-field terminal here, with the crunch on space. The area that is now the terminal would have to become the cargo/corpora
125 Greenair727 : It would be great to have the flexibility of two terminals---the IX location as one and the current one as the other, and perhaps with a people mover
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