USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2681 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9161 times:
I remember in Fall 2007, CO announced a major CLE expansion. It was to include about 20 new regional aircraft destinations, and about a dozen new mainline destinations. It would also create almost a thousand jobs for the Greater Cleavland area.
I don't know if any of those routes were announced, but the expansion was canceled do to the Economic Crisis of 2008.
I would like to know the new routes. Maybe someone from CO knows.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8925 times:
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 4): Heres a list of 12....these were all launched...
Greensboro, N.C. (GSO) Three times daily March 3, 2008
Omaha, Neb. (OMA) Three times daily March 3, 2008
Savannah, Ga. (SAV) Twice daily March 3, 2008
Birmingham, Ala. (BHM) Twice daily April 6, 2008
Charleston, S.C. (CHS) Once daily April 6, 2008
Green Bay, Wis. (GRB) Twice daily April 6, 2008
Tulsa, Okla. (TUL) Twice daily April 6, 2008
Little Rock, Ark. (LIT) Twice daily May 4, 2008
Memphis, Tenn. (MEM) Twice daily May 4, 2008
Lansing, Mich. (LAN) Three times daily May 4, 2008
Des Moines, Iowa (DSM) Twice daily June 12, 2008
Kalamazoo, Mich. (AZO) Three times daily June 12, 2008
Ottawa, Ontario (YOW)... I don't know the dates
I can't believe CLE couldn't support YOW. Continental Connection flew it out of ALB and never dropped it until the hub was closed.
Actually, the restart of LAN and AZO never happened. They were the first casualties of CO's expansion when the economy started to go south. They were scrubbed less than a month before the first flights. DSM was launched on June 12th last year-the same day CO announed that it, and the other destinations (plus ORF, BNA, SAT, AUS and SAN) were to be cut. CO later axed DTW, TOL, CVG, AVP, HPN, JFK and IAD out of CLE as well.
CLE lost almost 1/4 of it's destinations in less than three months.
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2362 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8881 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6): There is talk that CLE-FRA could start as early as 2010 with either CO or LH metal.
With the switch over to Star Alliance, I could see this on a LH A330 actually. I would think they could get the business traffic they need for the route, but I would love to see some more of the domestic routes they cut last year come back for extra feed.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8830 times:
Quoting Lexy (Reply 7): With the switch over to Star Alliance, I could see this on a LH A330 actually. I would think they could get the business traffic they need for the route, but I would love to see some more of the domestic routes they cut last year come back for extra feed.
I would think an A330 too big for that route. It's likely if CO ran it, it would be with a 762.
As for the domestics, some may well come back when things get a little better. I was shocked when ORF and BNA were axed, to be honest. As for the new routes, OMA, OKC, TUL, LIT, DSM, SAV all were doing very well, load-wise, when they were axed.
nothing that we have...........therefore, I do not see this being a viable route for us right now, even in the JV. There would be other routes, probably even a 2nd EWR-FRA flight, before we would jump on the CLE-FRA wagon. Particularly if we were to codeshare with OS or MS.
okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8639 times:
CALMSP, do you say that about the 762 because it's a numbers game? If that's it, I think I might agree with you. Until the 787's start coming online, the re-gauge of a lot of flights can't take place. If you think it's simply not capable or something, I might have to disagree with that.
Numbers are the reason that, if it does start in '10, that it could be an LH flight.
Evanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 376 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8547 times:
With oil prices back down, I was hoping in the coming months we would see the resumption of the former routes plus maybe some other cities like CID, FAR, and FSD (streching it) but that appears to be false hope considering summer season is about to start....
BTW, when CO operated DSM-CLE, how were the loads???
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8540 times:
Quoting Evanbu (Reply 15): BTW, when CO operated DSM-CLE, how were the loads???
Started off a little slow, but by the time the flight ceased, the loads were usually very good out of CLE-I was seeing 45-50 people a lot on that flight.
I do think CO panicked a little when it pulled these flights, although no one knew where the price of gas was going at the time. I think CO should look at bringing some of them back in '10 if they can. The one I wouldn't bring back, at least with an RJ, would be GSO. The loads on that were always pretty terrible.
DL plans on CVG-AMS (One nm longer than CLE-FRA) with a 757. Is it the engine difference (Pratt vs Rolls) or does DL limit the loads?
A couple of other routes that CO announced but never operated were PDX and YHM about 10 years ago. YHM would have used E-120's I believe. Portland was probably one of the unannounced mainline routes planned for the last expansion and maybe Sacramento, as well. CLE O&D to both cities was over 100 a day at the time.
AWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1416 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 7392 times:
It absolutely amazed me how much Larry Kellner was pimping CLE as the next massive buildup...only to pull the rug out from under them. I know the economy went to the crapper, but the signs were there before the expansion was announced, yet they chose to go through with it anyways.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21239 posts, RR: 19 Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 7381 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14): CALMSP, do you say that about the 762 because it's a numbers game? If that's it, I think I might agree with you. Until the 787's start coming online, the re-gauge of a lot of flights can't take place.
Well, there's at least the potential to get the 764 from EWR-FRA if LH takes over the route. That could trickle down to a 762 being available for CLE-FRA... if that's what CO wanted to do with a single available widebody.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4724 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 7343 times:
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 20): often wondered that myself...........probably would be best if 3M would bring some more BE1 up to CLE to do the routes.
3M's stock (symbol GIA) has tripled since its December low and they have stated in SEC filings that the CLE routes are profitable. Their 10-K states that they are looking at aircraft acquisition opportunities, additional codesharing, as well as "airline" acquisitions. Presumably they are looking at very small airlines. Their largest stockholder is Wash DC suburb-based Daniel Abramowitz and his small cap fund, which could be a source of additional financing.
Whether they further expand CLE flying will probably depend on their acquisition of additional Beeches and the desires of CO, which has the right to a directorship, to buy 10% of their stock, and to review most major corporate decisions.
If they do expand in CLE, it would probably not come before the summer of 2010. I guess it's possible that they could switch a few planes between summer in CLE and winter in Florida this year, but any such action probably would have been announced by now.
Just my opinion; their stock has been one of my better ideas of late.